Obama Administration Keep US Ban on Maher Arar

[tango]

There is a strong tendency in such cases of abuse of war crimes laws to scapegoat the low level person(s) carrying out the orders and call it case closed. (eg in Canada ... the Somalia affair') I'm glad Obama is not allowing the agents to be used as scapegoats for those who played fast and loose with the rules.

I hope some of the higher ups fall instead, but I suspect this is directly from Bush himself.

Edited April 18, 2009 by tango

[bush_cheney2004]

There is a strong tendency in such cases of abuse of war crimes laws to scapegoat the low level person(s) carrying out the orders and call it case closed. (eg in Canada ... the Somalia affair') I'm glad Obama is not allowing the agents to be used as scapegoats for those who played fast and loose with the rules.

No, Mr. Obama just got a crash course in reality....detailed disclosure of sources and methods is a big national security no-no. He was smart enough not to expose such things in open court.

I hope some of the higher ups fall instead, but I suspect this is directly from Bush himself.

NOW HEAR THIS: President George W. Bush will never, ever face prosecution for whatever policies emanated from his office. I know that frosts quite a few tits around the world, but that's just the way it is.

Put PM Chretien on trial first.

Edited April 18, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

hey chuckles... keep laughing - all the way to open disclosure on who did what... the dominoes will (eventually) fall - one by one!

Sure thay will...in your wildest ACLU dreams.

and in your system... Justice Dept trumps the Presidency... as Obama states, the decision to pursue prosecution rests with Attorney General Holder.

Obama: Holder Will Decide Whether To Prosecute Bush Officials

and it gets better!

there was dissenting opinion within the Bush administration... dissenting opinion that did not agree with the legal foundations presented within the recently released, so-called "OLC torture memos". Dissenting opinion that the Bush administration has attempted to purge all record of.

Philip Zelikow: counselor at the Department of State and deputy to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice

The OLC "torture memos": thoughts from a dissenter

At the time, in 2005, I circulated an opposing view of the legal reasoning. My bureaucratic position, as counselor to the secretary of state, didn't entitle me to offer a legal opinion. But I felt obliged to put an alternative view in front of my colleagues at other agencies, warning them that other lawyers (and judges) might find the OLC views unsustainable. My colleagues were entitled to ignore my views. They did more than that: The White House attempted to collect and destroy all copies of my memo. I expect that one or two are still at least in the State Department's archives.

.

.

The underlying absurdity of the administration's position can be summarized this way. Once you get to a substantive compliance analysis for "cruel, inhuman, and degrading" you get the position that the substantive standard is the same as it is in analogous U.S. constitutional law. So the OLC must argue, in effect, that the methods and the conditions of confinement in the CIA program could constitutionally be inflicted on American citizens in a county jail.

In other words, Americans in any town of this country could constitutionally be hung from the ceiling naked, sleep deprived, water-boarded, and all the rest -- if the alleged national security justification was compelling. I did not believe our federal courts could reasonably be expected to agree with such a reading of the Constitution.

[Borg]

As expected, the new American administration is supporting the existing ban on Maher Arar's travel to or over the United States....

The Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- The new administration in Washington is refusing to reverse that country's ban on Maher Arar.

The Syrian-Canadian computer engineer remains on a U.S. terrorism watchlist, despite having been exonerated and winning a multimillion-dollar settlement from the Canadian government.

American officials indicated their policy on Arar won't change with the arrival of the new Obama administration.

A senior diplomat at the U.S. embassy in Ottawa told Canadian reporters that Arar is not welcome in the country.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...0416?hub=Canada

Finally - something Bama does something I agree with.

Arar is trouble - he stays out.

Torture? Proof please - other than that lying sods word?

Lefties helped him win this one and the tax payer loses.

Borg

[CANADIEN]

Finally - something Bama does something I agree with.

Arar is trouble - he stays out.

Torture? Proof please - other than that lying sods word?

Lefties helped him win this one and the tax payer loses.

Borg

In other words, he's an Arab.

[tango]

Proof please - other than that lying sods word

Proof please - other than ...

Edited April 23, 2009 by tango

[bush_cheney2004]

and in your system... Justice Dept trumps the Presidency... as Obama states, the decision to pursue prosecution rests with Attorney General Holder.

Not when such a case would be tried in open court.....the government usually prefers not to prosecute because of the potential damage to sources, methods, and other aspects of intelligence gathering. Even in domestic cases involving US citizens, the only penalty is inadmissable evidence and a lawsuit......sometimes a risk worth taking.

[Borg]

In other words, he's an Arab.

As I am now living with an Arab family for the next week or so I believe you do not know me as well as you think you do.

More to this man that meets the eye or is to be believed - papers and lefties love to kiss this man's ass. I got screwed and so did all tax payers.

Show me the proof - cannot be done

As for the racist comment hidden as you did - quite cowardly actually - perhaps your franco background makes you one as well - seems most in kebec or from that place are - at least against the Anglo - you coming true to form?

On ignore

Borg

Edited April 23, 2009 by Borg

[waldo]

More to this man that meets the eye or is to be believed - papers and lefties love to kiss this man's ass. I got screwed and so did all tax payers.

Show me the proof - cannot be done

As for the racist comment hidden as you did - quite cowardly actually - perhaps your franco background makes you one as well - seems most in kebec or from that place are - at least against the Anglo - you coming true to form?

always with the lefties... lefties this... lefties that... blah, blah, blah

why did Conservative minister Day clear Mr. Arar?

why did Conservative Harper authorize the compensation award for Mr. Arar?

why did Conservative Harper offer a formal apology to Mr. Arar?

by the by... what should we accept of you by your continued derogatory misspelling of the province of Quebec?

[CANADIEN]

As I am now living with an Arab family for the next week or so I believe you do not know me as well as you think you do.

More to this man that meets the eye or is to be believed - papers and lefties love to kiss this man's ass. I got screwed and so did all tax payers.

Show me the proof - cannot be done

As for the racist comment hidden as you did - quite cowardly actually - perhaps your franco background makes you one as well - seems most in kebec or from that place are - at least against the Anglo - you coming true to form?

On ignore

Borg

The FACT that there is no evidence that leads to a reasonable assumption taht Maher Arar was or is a terrorist has been demonstated time and time again. You have new FACTS, give them.

Now, on a more personal basis:

a) if and when I conclude what you say is racist, I won't hesitate to say so

b -my poor opinion of you has nothing to do with the language you speak, the place you were born, the color of your skin, where you live, your religion or the colour of the bowl used to feed the dog in the house of your third-cousin's brother-in-law's sixth-door neighbour's gay lover's godfather's boss. It has to do, and it only has to do, with the cr*p you write.

c) a good reading of some of your postings and of mine will clearly demonstrate that the insulting arrogant childish hateful attitude against Candians with a difference first language is yours, not mine.

d) I'm from Ontario :lol:

Edited April 24, 2009 by CANADIEN

[Leafless]

d) I'm from Ontario :lol:

Fact is, you are, according to you, a Francophone Ontarian who advocates or approves of corrupt, discriminatory linguistc bilingual policies or corrupt bilingual sign laws without a municipal or provincial referendum on the issue. This is of course in a province that has NO official language policy.

Relax CANADIEN and allow others to freely voice their opinion in a country that is so culturally lax that it cannot even define what a Canadian is or what their nationalistic or patriotic obligations are as a Canadian citizen to the country of Canada.

[tango]

Fact is, you are, according to you, a Francophone Ontarian who advocates or approves of corrupt, discriminatory linguistc bilingual policies or corrupt bilingual sign laws without a municipal or provincial referendum on the issue. This is of course in a province that has NO official language policy.

Relax CANADIEN and allow others to freely voice their opinion in a country that is so culturally lax that it cannot even define what a Canadian is or what their nationalistic or patriotic obligations are as a Canadian citizen to the country of Canada.

Oh ethnic bias. How sophisticated!

[CANADIEN]

Nice to see some things never change, Leafless, like the fact you do not get it

Fact is, you are, according to you, a Francophone Ontarian

Of course, according to me, since I AM Franco Ontarian.

(...) who advocates or approves of corrupt, discriminatory linguistc bilingual policies or corrupt bilingual sign laws without a municipal or provincial referendum on the issue.

You're confused... as usual. Here's what actually happens, every time. I say, and prove, that equal rights are not discriminatory, and you prove you don't get it by arguing that equal rights are infact discriminatory, corrupt, etc. etc. Remember now?

Relax CANADIEN and allow others to freely voice their opinion

You don't get it (again). Allowing people to express their opinion does not mean agreeing with said opinion, or not countering them with facts (you know, those things you never get). In case you forgot, YOU are the one who promotes Quebec-style unilingual policies that would restrict freedom of expression.

Now... the topic here is Maher Arar. You have an opinion on the subject?

Edited April 24, 2009 by CANADIEN

[Leafless]

You're confused... as usual. Here's what actually happens, every time. I say, and prove, that equal rights are not discriminatory, and you prove you don't get it by arguing that equal rights are infact discriminatory, corrupt, etc. etc. Remember now?

The corrupt application of bilingual and linguistic policies does not equate to equal rights.

You don't get it (again). Allowing people to express their opinion does not mean agreeing with said opinion, or not countering them with facts (you know, those things you never get). In case you forgot, YOU are the one who promotes Quebec-style unilingual policies that would restrict freedom of expression.

I promote policies to protect charter rights and the historical language rights of the English speaking majority of Ontario.

Ontario to date is a province that refuses to protect the free flowing historical linguistic rights of majority English speaking Ontarians.

Now... the topic here is Maher Arar. You have an opinion on the subject?

If you read the thread you will observe that I have already donated.

[DFCaper]

I still don't know why Canada was responsible for his torture. They were responsible for bad info on the guy, But if he was 100% Canadian he wouldn't have been sent to Syria.

To me the cheque he got was an apology for all of the wrong doings happening to innocent Arabs being wrongfully treated in this country as a result of fear mongering.

If Syria is such a bad place to be sent, then why keep your citizenship. I feel he was as responsible as the Canadian gov't. Not very.

The US keeps peopel who barely done anything wrong out of there country, as they can refuse you for not being nice to the customs officer.... This is a "who cares" issue. Americans are a free country last I heard, so they can do what they want.

Why does Arar want to always be in the countries that wronged him so badly that he deserves millions??? I know I would take my money and go somewhere new....

[capricorn]

Why does Arar want to always be in the countries that wronged him so badly that he deserves millions???

More millions I would think. He's suing the Americans isn't he?

edit: Why isn't he suing Syria?

Edited April 24, 2009 by capricorn

[Borg]

I still don't know why Canada was responsible for his torture. They were responsible for bad info on the guy, But if he was 100% Canadian he wouldn't have been sent to Syria.

To me the cheque he got was an apology for all of the wrong doings happening to innocent Arabs being wrongfully treated in this country as a result of fear mongering.

If Syria is such a bad place to be sent, then why keep your citizenship. I feel he was as responsible as the Canadian gov't. Not very.

The US keeps peopel who barely done anything wrong out of there country, as they can refuse you for not being nice to the customs officer.... This is a "who cares" issue. Americans are a free country last I heard, so they can do what they want.

Why does Arar want to always be in the countries that wronged him so badly that he deserves millions??? I know I would take my money and go somewhere new....

Canada did not torture him - if indeed he ever was.

He travelled to his home country - a Canadian of convenience - and a great convenience it was.

Made him and his family quite well to do.

Syria - the country I was in today - is supposed to have done this.

He and his family now have tons of our money - time for them to leave and go where they can live a fine life.

Syria perhaps?

I am still waiting for something other than his word for proof.

That so called great evil - south of the border does not want him in for a reason - I do not want him or his in Canada for the same reason.

Waiting for the proof ........ he has plenty of reasons to lie.

It will never come.

Borg

[waldo]

Waiting for the proof ........ he has plenty of reasons to lie.

did Conservative Minister Day not have your "proof" when he cleared Mr. Arar?

did Conservative PM Harper not have your "proof" when he authorized the compensation award for Mr. Arar?

did Conservative PM Harper not have your "proof" when he offered a formal apology to Mr. Arar?

[Borg]

did Conservative Minister Day not have your "proof" when he cleared Mr. Arar?

did Conservative PM Harper not have your "proof" when he authorized the compensation award for Mr. Arar?

did Conservative PM Harper not have your "proof" when he offered a formal apology to Mr. Arar?

Waldo

Show me the proof please

The politicians bowed to pressure in my opinion

The guy is a liar in my opinion - and others as well

So - has anyone ever seen this proof?

Probably not

I suspect our southern neighbours might have something as they will not budge - theymay not be perfect - but they will not allow that person the right to enter their country - a right any country has by the way - Canadians are - as usual whining about something they have no control over.

Do you have it? The proof that is - just in case you did not understand the question.

If not then as far as I - and many others are concerned this was a fraud and the guy can take his family and leave.

Not to be missed

He can keep the money - call it a final courtesy form comfy Canada.

Borg

[waldo]

Show me the proof please

The politicians bowed to pressure in my opinion

The guy is a liar in my opinion - and others as well

So - has anyone ever seen this proof?

Probably not

I suspect our southern neighbours might have something as they will not budge - theymay not be perfect - but they will not allow that person the right to enter their country - a right any country has by the way - Canadians are - as usual whining about something they have no control over.

Do you have it? The proof that is - just in case you did not understand the question.

If not then as far as I - and many others are concerned this was a fraud and the guy can take his family and leave.

Not to be missed

He can keep the money - call it a final courtesy form comfy Canada.

what proof are you after - exactly? All manner of proof to substantiate the false RCMP information supplied to the Americans is readily available... all manner of proof to substantiate the American rendition is readily available... all manner of proof to show Mr. Arar had no links to terrorist organizations or militants is readily available ... all manner of proof to substantiate the improper imprisonment is readily available... etc., etc., etc.

Commission of Inquiry into the Actions of Canadian Officials in Relation to Maher Arar (Arar Commission)

the U.S. (Condoleezza Rice, no less) has advised the "Americans improperly handled Mr. Arar".

Harper apologized and offered a $10.5 million compensation package to Arar and his family, along with money for legal fees, for the "terrible ordeal" they suffered after Arar spent nearly a year in a Syrian jail.

"On behalf of the government of Canada, I wish to apologize to you…and your family for any role Canadian officials may have played in the terrible ordeal that all of you experienced in 2002 and 2003," Harper said.

Harper, who made the announcement in the foyer of the House of Commons in Ottawa, said the settlement negotiated with Arar includes $10.5 million for pain and suffering, along with an estimated $1 million in legal fees.

"We cannot go back and fix the injustice that occurred to Mr. Arar. However, we can make changes to lessen the likelihood that something like this will ever happen again," Harper said.

[noahbody]

Harper apologized and offered a $10.5 million compensation package to Arar and his family, along with money for legal fees, for the "terrible ordeal" they suffered after Arar spent nearly a year in a Syrian jail

Arar made himself look guilty, specifically by forgetting someone he claimed to meet only a few times signed his rental lease. He provided incorrect information, just as did Canada.

Compensation should have been a fraction of what is was. Instead, he received more than David Milgaard. That's crazy.

[CANADIEN]

The corrupt application of bilingual and linguistic policies does not equate to equal rights.

I promote policies to protect charter rights and the historical language rights of the English speaking majority of Ontario.

Ontario to date is a province that refuses to protect the free flowing historical linguistic rights of majority English speaking Ontarians.

If you read the thread you will observe that I have already donated.

Your delusions about equal rights have been debunked often enough and have nothing to do with maher Arar, so I'll spare you this time.

[CANADIEN]

The U.S. does not have to reveal what evidence they have against Mr. Arar.

But I would think a friendly government would reveal information that would show we're better to put him in jail because he's such a danger.

Besides, a minister of the canadian government saw the so-called evidence then declared in public there was nothing in there that would justify considering arar to be a terrorist.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/04/16/...-us-ban016.html

Besides, a royal commision is not a court of law.

But the royal commission concluded, based on the FACTS submitted to it, there was no evidence that Maher Arar was a terrorist. In other word, there is no way that a trial conducted in court of law would have resulted in a guilty verdict.

Edited April 25, 2009 by CANADIEN

[bush_cheney2004]

But I would think a friendly government would reveal information that would show we're better to put him in jail because he's such a danger.

There are no friendly governments...just mutual interests. In this case, they are different.

Besides, a minister of the canadian government saw the so-called evidence then declared in public there was nothing in there that would justify considering arar to be a terrorist.

He dosen't have to be a full blown terrorist to make the list. John Lennon wasn't a terrorist either.

But the royal commission concluded, based on the FACTS submitted to it, there was no evidence that Maher Arar was a terrorist. In other word, there is now way that a trial conducted in court of law would have resulted in a guilty verdict.

Heck, they can't even prove Arar was "tortured". So much for that.

Edited April 25, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

Heck, they can't even prove Arar was "tortured". So much for that.

Syria formally announced it doesn't torture... as has the U.S.

wait... now that the U.S. has clearly shown it does torture...

aren't you giddy with expectation to hear the ACLU is about to receive, and then release, another batch of Abu Ghraib photographs? Apparently we'll start to see them as early as next week... tick-tock, tick-tock... more fuel to the fire for that special prosecutor!