benny Posted May 24, 2009 Report Posted May 24, 2009 * a party mandated to anonymously, securely, gather the voters opinions on the issues facing our leaders and establish / recognize majority votes on those issues by the constituents affected."It is not our differences that make us a people, it is what we share in common." www.canadianreferendumparty.com putting the average Canadian, directly in charge of solving the issues There is, I think, an incompatibility in between a common will and anonymous referendums. Quote
jbg Posted May 27, 2009 Report Posted May 27, 2009 Poverty, such as this, in one of the richest countries in the world? Is it because our representatives cannot find a better way or because the majority of Canadians find it profitable and acceptable not to address it?Do the majority of Canadians agree that its OK for people in our country to starve? do you? Show me a starving person without a program addressing their needs. If parents let their children starve while the benefit moneys go up their nose that's not the Government's fault. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
benny Posted May 27, 2009 Report Posted May 27, 2009 Show me a starving person without a program addressing their needs. If parents let their children starve while the benefit moneys go up their nose that's not the Government's fault. Government should know that giving its money to some people can destroy their self-esteem. Quote
Martin Odber Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 Show me a starving person without a program addressing their needs. If parents let their children starve while the benefit moneys go up their nose that's not the Government's fault. wow.. you really need to take a good look at the programs you are talking about. The "programs" do not even BEGIN to address the needs of those they look after. Like everything else they are bandaid solutions designed to allow society to turn a blind eye and "feel good." Sir, a successful program ..in my esteem, would be one that accomplishes its goal. Prison rehabilitation systems, have such a high rate of recidivism that its more of a revolving door time out chair than anything else. Currently the rate of recidivism is about 80%. Considering it costs approximately $250/day to keep someone incarcerated how does our rehabilitation systems consistent failures to rehabilitate even find acceptance in taxpayers eyes. If any private business failed to accomplish its goal 8 out of 10 times, consistently, how long would it survive? You would think our government would be busting its ass trying out new things, ANYTHING that would improve those odds, but nope, because your taxes, are paying the bill, not theirs. Am I correct? Are MP's and MPP's not taxed? Ontario Works, record of "getting people off the system" is incredibly poor if you do not accept being "off the system" for less than two years as successful. Successful (with regards to Ontario Works) in my eyes would be re-educating an applicant in such a way that when they left the system they had a 80% chance or better of becoming upwardly socially mobile and not returning to the system in less than five years if ever. Consider this.. if an average single person on social assistance receives approx $500 per month (how much is rent in your area?) for most of their lives (studies indicate that poverty is generational) would it really be that outlandish to have the person taught an in demand life skill that would prevent them from returning to the social assistance system? It costs on average $250/day ($7.500/month) to keep a person in jail.. when society has a person utterly in their control, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to rehabilitate them so they have greater than a 20% chance of not returning? Are you quite certain of this? Are we really looking for an answer that can give these people a future outside the bars? If we paid each low risk offender $3000 per month to stay out of jail we'd be ahead $3500 per month.. and no this is not the answer, but it does point out the irresponsible way things are currently being handled. Our government, is not designed or mandated to deal with the roots of the issues, in order to resolve them. Our government, like those in the past as far as the mind can see, focus's on bandaid solutions that give "feel good" results to those that eagerly turn a blind eye. The only way that I can see that we will EVER .. have a government that will diligently and responsibly work towards finding solutions to the challenges that face our society, is to put you, and every other Canadian voter, in direct control of the persons that claim to represent us. I feel very confident that some individuals will continue to wash their hands of the injustice's that burden our people and say "damn liberals" "damn conservatives" "damn NDP" "damn parents" "damn kids" however some people, really would like to find the answers and resolve the issues. When Canadians each personally bear the weight of the rewards and consequences via their voting choices on the issues, and do not have the luxury of scapegoat government representatives to blame, perhaps then we will begin to take the issues seriously and solve them. It is not what our differences that make us a people, it is what we share in common. regards, Martin www.canadianreferendumparty.com Quote
benny Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 wow.. you really need to take a good look at the programs you are talking about. The "programs" do not even BEGIN to address the needs of those they look after. Like everything else they are bandaid solutions designed to allow society to turn a blind eye and "feel good."Sir, a successful program ..in my esteem, would be one that accomplishes its goal. Prison rehabilitation systems, have such a high rate of recidivism that its more of a revolving door time out chair than anything else. Currently the rate of recidivism is about 80%. Considering it costs approximately $250/day to keep someone incarcerated how does our rehabilitation systems consistent failures to rehabilitate even find acceptance in taxpayers eyes. If any private business failed to accomplish its goal 8 out of 10 times, consistently, how long would it survive? You would think our government would be busting its ass trying out new things, ANYTHING that would improve those odds, but nope, because your taxes, are paying the bill, not theirs. Am I correct? Are MP's and MPP's not taxed? Ontario Works, record of "getting people off the system" is incredibly poor if you do not accept being "off the system" for less than two years as successful. Successful (with regards to Ontario Works) in my eyes would be re-educating an applicant in such a way that when they left the system they had a 80% chance or better of becoming upwardly socially mobile and not returning to the system in less than five years if ever. Consider this.. if an average single person on social assistance receives approx $500 per month (how much is rent in your area?) for most of their lives (studies indicate that poverty is generational) would it really be that outlandish to have the person taught an in demand life skill that would prevent them from returning to the social assistance system? It costs on average $250/day ($7.500/month) to keep a person in jail.. when society has a person utterly in their control, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to rehabilitate them so they have greater than a 20% chance of not returning? Are you quite certain of this? Are we really looking for an answer that can give these people a future outside the bars? If we paid each low risk offender $3000 per month to stay out of jail we'd be ahead $3500 per month.. and no this is not the answer, but it does point out the irresponsible way things are currently being handled. Our government, is not designed or mandated to deal with the roots of the issues, in order to resolve them. Our government, like those in the past as far as the mind can see, focus's on bandaid solutions that give "feel good" results to those that eagerly turn a blind eye. The only way that I can see that we will EVER .. have a government that will diligently and responsibly work towards finding solutions to the challenges that face our society, is to put you, and every other Canadian voter, in direct control of the persons that claim to represent us. I feel very confident that some individuals will continue to wash their hands of the injustice's that burden our people and say "damn liberals" "damn conservatives" "damn NDP" "damn parents" "damn kids" however some people, really would like to find the answers and resolve the issues. When Canadians each personally bear the weight of the rewards and consequences via their voting choices on the issues, and do not have the luxury of scapegoat government representatives to blame, perhaps then we will begin to take the issues seriously and solve them. It is not what our differences that make us a people, it is what we share in common. regards, Martin www.canadianreferendumparty.com Based on surveys done on social assistance and the justice system, expect a majority of Canadians will vote for workfare and capital punishment. Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 My wife went to Loblaws on Thursday( like every thursday) and she looks for the specials cause the new flyer comes out friday (like every friday). She bought 2 kilos of lean ground beef for $3.86. So Into the freezer it went divided up into 4 packages. Add sauce and pasta, that's 4 dinners for 4 for under four dollars. Attention Smart Shoppers! Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
benny Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 My wife went to Loblaws on Thursday( like every thursday) and she looks for the specials cause the new flyer comes out friday (like every friday).She bought 2 kilos of lean ground beef for $3.86. So Into the freezer it went divided up into 4 packages. Add sauce and pasta, that's 4 dinners for 4 for under four dollars. Attention Smart Shoppers! How much with the freezer, the car, the interior space and electric grid amortizations? Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 How much with the freezer, the car, the interior space and electric grid amortizations? $3.99 Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 $400 Must be why you are poor....you spend too much on electricity...get off the intrawab, save your money and get a job. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
benny Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 Must be why you are poor....you spend too much on electricity...get off the intrawab, save your money and get a job. Producing meat is to be avoided if we want to prevent ecological disasters and to deepen hunger worldwide. Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 Producing meat is to be avoided if we want to prevent ecological disasters and to deepen hunger worldwide. Man does not live on word salad alone.... Farmers raise livestock when growing vegetables is not productive..... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
benny Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 Man does not live on word salad alone....Farmers raise livestock when growing vegetables is not productive..... Farmers ruin fields to feed the obese. Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 Farmers ruin fields to feed the obese. Maybe we should just add this to the growing number of topics you babble endlessly and ignorantly about. Yes? yes... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
benny Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 Maybe we should just add this to the growing number of topics you babble endlessly and ignorantly about.Yes? yes... Don't be afraid! Quote
Renegade Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 Based on surveys done on social assistance and the justice system, expect a majority of Canadians will vote for workfare and capital punishment. So why the complaints then, afterall were you not the one who suggested that we should submit to the will of the people? Quote “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” - Thomas Jefferson
benny Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 So why the complaints then, afterall were you not the one who suggested that we should submit to the will of the people? We get to know the will of the people in public deliberations not in referendums. Quote
Renegade Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 We get to know the will of the people in public deliberations not in referendums. Why, don't you think people are intelligent enough to make their own choices? Quote “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” - Thomas Jefferson
benny Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 Why, don't you think people are intelligent enough to make their own choices? A people is not individuals hiding their choices from one another. Quote
Renegade Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 A people is not individuals hiding their choices from one another. Ah so you are suggesting that people lie in surveys and referendums and don't express their true will? Quote “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” - Thomas Jefferson
benny Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 Ah so you are suggesting that people lie in surveys and referendums and don't express their true will? People's will is a common will. A common pot cannot be kept hidden. Quote
Renegade Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 People's will is a common will. A common pot cannot be kept hidden. OK, I'll bite. Please tell us how to determine what a common will is and why it is different than the aggerate of individual's wills. Quote “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” - Thomas Jefferson
benny Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 OK, I'll bite. Please tell us how to determine what a common will is and why it is different than the aggerate of individual's wills. For a will to be a political power to change society, a lot of individuals have to recognize themselves. Quote
Renegade Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 For a will to be a political power to change society, a lot of individuals have to recognize themselves. Huh? Who said society needed to be changed? How do individuals "recognize themselves" and what has that got to do with a common will? As usual, you are not making any sense. Quote “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” - Thomas Jefferson
benny Posted June 1, 2009 Report Posted June 1, 2009 Huh? Who said society needed to be changed?How do individuals "recognize themselves" and what has that got to do with a common will? As usual, you are not making any sense. Likewise, for a will to be a political power to keep society unchanged, a lot of individuals have to recognize themselves by exchanging the reasons at the basis of their different subjective views. Quote
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