Harper Working on Scrapping the Gun Registry!

[Argus]

By a bill mandating the gun industry to do background checks on the register. If the gun industry is too scared to do it itself, it can hire a specialized (independent) agency.

It is apparent you understand almost nothing about gun registration or firearms licensing in Canada. This is not surprising. Most of the more zealous of the anti-gun people are almost wholly ignorant about the laws involved, being emotionally involved and thus having little inclination to take the time to educate themselves.

In order to purchase a weapon legally one must obtain a firearms license. That is the point where background checks are undertaken to ensure the applicant is suitable, sane, and law-abiding, and can thus be trusted with owning a firearm.

No one, at any point in time, has ever suggested doing away with licensing.

Glad to be of assistance.

[scribblet]

Damn right! It's about time too!! this nonsense has gone on long enough......gun control is an absolute failure the Gang violense is proof of this, billions of dollars were sunk into this all for nothing ! Its time to stop harassing innocent and law abiding gun owning citizens and start changing the laws to make stiffer penalities against Gang members including bringing back the death penality for this garbage....this country is full of weed smoking sissy liberals..and their time has come and gone......its time politicians go after and truly punish the people who are really causing all the gun violence..GANGS! and stop making life difficult for hunters and target shooters.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

And rightly so, let's get on with it !

[benny]

It is apparent you understand almost nothing about gun registration or firearms licensing in Canada. This is not surprising. Most of the more zealous of the anti-gun people are almost wholly ignorant about the laws involved, being emotionally involved and thus having little inclination to take the time to educate themselves.

In order to purchase a weapon legally one must obtain a firearms license. That is the point where background checks are undertaken to ensure the applicant is suitable, sane, and law-abiding, and can thus be trusted with owning a firearm.

No one, at any point in time, has ever suggested doing away with licensing.

Glad to be of assistance.

Read this thread page.20: "Bill C-301 is proposing to allow licensed owners to buy as many guns as they want without having their name associated to them. While there would be little to prevent owners from giving those guns to individuals without licenses, it would also be nearly impossible to take preventive measures to remove guns when risks are known and to enforce prohibition orders."

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/op-ed...1330/story.html

[Argus]

Read this thread page.20: "Bill C-301 is proposing to allow licensed owners

Yes, those people who have submitted their names, been checked out, had people attest to their responsibility? That is the proper form and process.

I fail to see how a registry adds anything to the process.

You seem to believe guns are in limited supply, that if they can't be registered they won't exist. Guns flow across the border every day, with virtually nothing to impede them and unenforced laws against smuggling or selling or even carrying restricted weapons.

Sane people would suggest we direct our resources to doing something about that, to altering laws and zealously pursuing those who smuggle and sell and posses restricted weapons - along with those who use them.

But no, instead the crazies on the left are frantically trying to track down every chicken farmer in Saskatchewan so they can get his pellet gun duly registered with the mounties.

[benny]

Yes, those people who have submitted their names, been checked out, had people attest to their responsibility? That is the proper form and process.

I fail to see how a registry adds anything to the process.

You seem to believe guns are in limited supply, that if they can't be registered they won't exist. Guns flow across the border every day, with virtually nothing to impede them and unenforced laws against smuggling or selling or even carrying restricted weapons.

Sane people would suggest we direct our resources to doing something about that, to altering laws and zealously pursuing those who smuggle and sell and posses restricted weapons - along with those who use them.

But no, instead the crazies on the left are frantically trying to track down every chicken farmer in Saskatchewan so they can get his pellet gun duly registered with the mounties.

Bottom line: The more frustrated honest gun owners are, the more they will feel incentives to keep their eyes opened on criminals and potential killers. Societies will come out victorious on crimes only when they will put more pressures on those that are more likely to ever cross the paths of (would-be) criminals than on those that are not. Rifles owners have more chances to cross on their paths (in isolated fields, in practice clubs, etc.) handguns smugglers and potential killers than a non-gun owners. For instance, in practice club members share a lot together. Sharing information about what people have in mind is how we prevent crimes. I also imagine easily a discussion forum full of frustrated gun owners arousing soon-to-be killers to reveal their projects.

[Argus]

Bottom line: The more frustrated honest gun owners are, the more they will feel incentives to keep their eyes opened on criminals and potential killers. Societies will come out victorious on crimes only when they will put more pressures on those that are more likely to ever cross the paths of (would-be) criminals than on those that are not. Rifles owners have more chances to cross on their paths (in isolated fields, in practice clubs, etc.) handguns smugglers and potential killers than a non-gun owners. For instance, in practice club members share a lot together. Sharing information about what people have in mind is how we prevent crimes. I also imagine easily a discussion forum full of frustrated gun owners arousing soon-to-be killers to reveal their projects.

All of the above is utterly ludicrous in its presumptions and beliefs. Guns cross the border in the backs of trucks and in the trunks of cars, very, very, very, very few of which are searched at border crossings, then sold openly in bars and clubs - with little fear of police intervention, and little fear of punishment if caught. The reason illegal restricted weapons are so readily available is because laws are inadequate, unenforced or both. If we slapped everyone we found smuggling or selling restricted weapons in prison for a minimum five year period the street price of those weapons would drastically increase and there'd be less of them about.

[benny]

All of the above is utterly ludicrous in its presumptions and beliefs. Guns cross the border in the backs of trucks and in the trunks of cars, very, very, very, very few of which are searched at border crossings, then sold openly in bars and clubs - with little fear of police intervention, and little fear of punishment if caught. The reason illegal restricted weapons are so readily available is because laws are inadequate, unenforced or both. If we slapped everyone we found smuggling or selling restricted weapons in prison for a minimum five year period the street price of those weapons would drastically increase and there'd be less of them about.

Sending people to prison is very expensive and not very productive. Importing our food and making border agents of Canadian subsidized farmers is better.

Edited April 11, 2009 by benny

[Molly]

... duck hunters are more likely to meet and interact with criminals than, say, convenience store owners? Is that really what you just suggested?

And that duck hunters and farmers who keep a 22 to control the racoons, dispatch animals for the larder, and euthanize sick ones.... are the ones best equipped to be entrusted with the control of firearms smuggling?

If I followed that correctly, then I really must know: What is your planet of origin?

[benny]

... duck hunters are more likely to meet and interact with criminals than, say, convenience store owners? Is that really what you just suggested?

And that duck hunters and farmers who keep a 22 to control the racoons, dispatch animals for the larder, and euthanize sick ones.... are the ones best equipped to be entrusted with the control of firearms smuggling?

If I followed that correctly, then I really must know: What is your planet of origin?

I'm living on a planet where resources are very badly shared and thus very badly used. Convenient store owners put a lot of video cameras in there stores because they prefer safaris than visiting their stores.

[rdepelteau]

One way to beat this idiotic gun registry is to sell your guns to your brother in law in BC, and make sure you use his old address, so that when he corrects it he can tell them he sold it already to his sister in Nunavuk, and she's not good at spelling, so that the paperwork will become a mountain of errors and totally useless. Then they won't confiscate the guns of law abiding citizens since they're already been sold and no longer in your possession.

All genocides began with gun confiscations....

Ever heard of FEMA camps....?

[normanchateau]

Sending people to prison is very expensive and not very productive.

Yet the current anti-libertarian government of Canada believes that sending people to prison for mere possession of marijuana is worth the investment of tax dollars. Stupid, stupid Stephen Harper. No wonder he has so little credibility even when he makes a rational proposal.

[Smallc]

Ever heard of FEMA camps....?

No, tell me more about these....FEMA camps....

[benny]

Ever heard of FEMA camps....?

For the laws of nature, as justice, equity, modesty, mercy, and, in sum, doing to others as we would be done to, of themselves, without the terror of some power to cause them to be observed, are contrary to our natural passions, that carry us to partiality, pride, revenge, and the like. And covenants, without the sword, are but words and of no strength to secure a man at all (Thomas Hobbes, The Leviathan).

[Argus]

Sending people to prison is very expensive and not very productive.

I'm not looking to increase productivity. Is that your aim?

Importing our food and making border agents of Canadian subsidized farmers is better.

No, it's just stupider.

[benny]

I'm not looking to increase productivity. Is that your aim?

This thread is all about waste.

[rdepelteau]

Gun registries, a prologue to gun confiscation, which is a necessary prelude to genocide.

History repeats itself.

Fema camps are death camps, fully manned and operational, a simple google search turns up thousands of links. The US government has been building these in secret for the last 15 years, over two thousands of them... who for?

Are there similar camps in Canada...?

[benny]

The monopoly on violence is the definition of the state expounded by Max Weber in Politics as a Vocation, and has been predominant in philosophy of law and political philosophy in the twentieth century. It defined a single entity, the state, exercising authority or violence over a given territory as territory was also deemed by Weber a characteristic of state. Importantly, such a monopoly, must occur via a process of legitimation, wherein a claim is laid on the state's use of violence as legitimate.

Edited April 12, 2009 by benny

[bush_cheney2004]

Fema camps are death camps, fully manned and operational, a simple google search turns up thousands of links. The US government has been building these in secret for the last 15 years, over two thousands of them... who for?

If they are secret, then how would you know about them? Shades of Polynewbie!

The Americans also build large theme parks....will Canada follow?

[benny]

We don't scrap something for not being perfect. It's not for nothing waivers have been invented.

[noahbody]

The Americans also build large theme parks....will Canada follow?

Not if Obama can control the climate.

[benny]

Not if Obama can control the climate.

Controlling your climax matters more when you own a gun.

Edited April 12, 2009 by benny

[normanchateau]

Here's why Harper is working on scrapping the gun registry:

"As the Conservative government continues its relentless campaign to woo voters with their own money and many press releases, recent opinion polls suggest increasing numbers of ungrateful Canadians are instead giving Prime Minister Stephen Harper the cold shoulder.

But something is changing in the kingdom, and even the smell of pork doesn't seem to be attracting voters to the Harper cause.

The latest Strategic Counsel poll reports the Liberals are continuing their slow but steady climb in popularity across the country, surpassing the Conservatives for the first time since the last election.

But the real story is in seat-rich Ontario where Harper's government is getting clobbered at 31%, while the Liberals have soared eight points to become the choice of 45% of decided voters.

Ontario isn't their only headache.

Wasteland in Quebec

The big problem facing Harper is there may be neither the means nor the time to turn things around before the next federal election.

Much of Harper's cherished core support is distraught at the country's returning to massive deficits, and by the unprecedented government spending on everything from bridges to fishing derbies.

Unfortunately for Harper, the situation is likely to get even worse.

That means an endless stream of bad news overwhelming all else.

By fall, even Canadians who support the stimulus spending spree will be starting to wonder whether it is achieving anything, why the economy keeps tanking and Canadians are still losing jobs.

It is the same story with the war in Afghanistan -- hard to imagine anything there that is going to enhance this government's popularity.

Indeed, the recent furor over new Afghan laws allowing rape and general repression of women suggests the longer Canada remains in the war, the more Canadians will blame whatever government is keeping us there.

Perhaps the clearest sign of desperation is the bill to kill the rifle registry, recently introduced in the Senate.

While the move is a direct sop to the Conservative core, it is a sure-fire vote-loser in the cities where the Liberals are gaining ground.

And therein lies what may be Harper's biggest problem of all.

Ever since Michael Ignatieff became Liberal leader in the infamous bloodless coup before Christmas, the Harper brain trust has been waiting for the Grits to screw up.

Instead, Ignatieff has wisely spent his time bringing money, talent and discipline to his party, keeping a relatively low profile, and leaving Harper and Co. to get run over by the economy."

http://www.edmontonsun.com/Comment/2009/04...088736-sun.html

[benny]

Perhaps the clearest sign of desperation is the bill to kill the rifle registry, recently introduced in the Senate.

While the move is a direct sop to the Conservative core, it is a sure-fire vote-loser in the cities where the Liberals are gaining ground.

"Sop" is a well chosen word.

[noahbody]

Here's why Harper is working on scrapping the gun registry:

Harper's working on scrapping the gun registry because the private member's bill goes a little to far to support politically. Also, though Ignatieff will position himself against the distant Liberal recored (i.e. NEP), the gun registry isn't something he can diss politically. He therefore has to bite his tongue and back a moronic idea as he did with the Green Shift. In the next election campaign his judgment and habit of flip-flopping will be made issues.

[benny]

Relatively to armament, Ignatieff is a lot crazier than Harper because he explicitly believes that using armament for humanitarian purposes is the best thing humans can hope for on the World scene.