punked Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 They have no right plain and simple. I have no intrest in your street justice. pffffttttttt laws would never change if you had your way. Henry David Thoreau has addressed this when he came out against slavery. Sometimes when a law is not just and does not protect those who need to be protected we must not fallow that law. I know you love it when people who are in a Union and are owed money are ripped off and sent home to eat dog food becuase some Mulit National cooperation cuts and runs but not this time. Someone got wise to that play. I wont have no interest in your contempt for real Canadians. Quote
punked Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 No they don't and you know it.....there is a lien or collections process to follow, or in th case of a bank, foreclosure. Yes and this all assumes that house and those people are going to be there for more then a week. Guess how long it takes to pack a factory on a truck and sell it off? The factory itself might not be going anywhere but the real assets in the factory will be gone as soon as those workers leave. That is the problem they declare bankruptcy. Sell off all the assets to pay down the parent company who is invested in this and the workers get paid last if at all. Quote
Alta4ever Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 pffffttttttt laws would never change if you had your way. Henry David Thoreau has addressed this when he came out against slavery. Sometimes when a law is not just and does not protect those who need to be protected we must not fallow that law. I know you love it when people who are in a Union and are owed money are ripped off and sent home to eat dog food becuase some Mulit National cooperation cuts and runs but not this time. Someone got wise to that play. I wont have no interest in your contempt for real Canadians. I would love to see your interpitation of the bankrupcy laws when it is a student or a person like you going through bankrupcy. I'm sure you would be very happy with them then as you would be ripping off a big bank. I have no contempt for Canadians only you and minority of people that think they are above the law and can extort money from others. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 ....That is the problem they declare bankruptcy. Sell off all the assets to pay down the parent company who is invested in this and the workers get paid last if at all. ...and all perfectly legal. The workers are just like any other creditor in line.....too bad. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Alta4ever Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Yes and this all assumes that house and those people are going to be there for more then a week. Guess how long it takes to pack a factory on a truck and sell it off? The factory itself might not be going anywhere but the real assets in the factory will be gone as soon as those workers leave. That is the problem they declare bankruptcy. Sell off all the assets to pay down the parent company who is invested in this and the workers get paid last if at all. And why should workers rights trump that of the investors many of them ordinary Canadian citzens who have also lost money. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 And why should workers rights trump that of the investors many of them ordinary Canadian citzens who have also lost money. Ummmmm in the case of Nackawick the only investor they paid was the parent company. A New York company. They paid them 20 million, and the workers got nothing, they borrowed against the workers pension plan which the workers paid into, so the pension went up in smoke for everyone under 55 but don't worry that New York company got 20 million when they trucked half the plant out at midnight that night. Quote
Alta4ever Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Ummmmm in the case of Nackawick the only investor they paid was the parent company. A New York company. They paid them 20 million, and the workers got nothing, they borrowed against the workers pension plan which the workers paid into, so the pension went up in smoke for everyone under 55 but don't worry that New York company got 20 million when they trucked half the plant out at midnight that night. And who owned the shares of the parent company? Was it publically traded? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) And who owned the shares of the parent company? Was it publically traded? Looks like it is private owned by Americans not Canadians and only Canadians got screwed on this deal. Again I know you hate the working Canadian but I don't. http://www.hoovers.com/parsons-&-whitt...factsheet.xhtml It also looks like it is one of the worlds largest paper companies. It looks like it could have paid the employees but instead created a subsidiary so if the mill ever went up they could take all the money from the bankruptcy and leave the workers, who are owed just as much as this parent company, in the dust. Let me ask you this why do the workers get paid last Alta? Why not pay them first debts are debts are they not? These are the right and this is the actions which unions are out there to protect. THIS IS WHY THEY ARE NEEDED Edited March 19, 2009 by punked Quote
Alta4ever Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Looks like it. http://www.hoovers.com/parsons-&-whitt...factsheet.xhtmlIt also looks like it is one of the worlds largest paper companies. It looks like it could have paid the employees but instead created a subsidiary so if the mill ever went up they could take all the money from the bankruptcy and leave the workers, who are owed just as much as this parent company, in the dust. Let me ask you this why do the workers get paid last Alta? Why not pay them first debts are debts are they not? These are the right and this is the actions which unions are out there to protect. THIS IS WHY THEY ARE NEEDED So your group of ordinary citizens out weighs another group got it. Just wait until one day your savings or pention fund dives because of bankruptcies. Then we will see what you think. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 So your group of ordinary citizens out weighs another group got it. Just wait until one day your savings or pention fund dives because of bankruptcies. Then we will see what you think. No it seems you are defending the fact that the debts to an American Company some how out weighs the debts to Canadian workers. They are owed money you would agree? They have just as much right to it as anyone else but yet they were never even given a piece of the pie. It would be one thing if all the debts were split but they weren't all the money went to the American creditor or parent company and none of it went to the people of Nackawick which were owed 10 million or so. Not only that but they paid into the pension fund, that money went up in smoke. So don't twist my words becuase you hate the Canadian worker it is a good thing someone is out there organizing them so they can fight for what is as much theirs as anyone elses. Quote
ToadBrother Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 And why should workers rights trump that of the investors many of them ordinary Canadian citzens who have also lost money. Many of those ordinary Canadian citizens are also Union members. Why should business rights trump labor rights? More importantly why should business rights even hold the tiniest candle to the freedom of association guaranteed by our Constitution? Do you really hate freedom that much? Quote
benny Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) They have no right plain and simple. I have no intrest in your street justice. To me, it is obscenely arbitrary to think that repeating the tautology "the law is the law" can be an argument for anything. Edited March 19, 2009 by benny Quote
Visionseeker Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 GM outsells the F-150. Uh, no. http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2009/01...f-the-year.html "For the 32nd year in a row, Ford’s award-winning F-Series is America’s best-selling truck with 2008 sales of 515,513." The big 3 produce shite and the critics and a large proportion of consumers agree with me. Considering your allergy to facts as noted above, I'll give this editorial the credit it is due. Quote
benny Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Who remember? I think that back in the 70's, when Chrysler was in trouble, Lee Ioacoca came in with a retooling of the company to build tanks and military jeeps. Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Who remember? I think that back in the 70's, when Chrysler was in trouble, Lee Ioacoca came in with a retooling of the company to build tanks and military jeeps. Ummm no. No one uses Chrysler tanks or jeeps....not even sure if they exist. It was the K car that saved Chrysler. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Alta4ever Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 No it seems you are defending the fact that the debts to an American Company some how out weighs the debts to Canadian workers. They are owed money you would agree? They have just as much right to it as anyone else but yet they were never even given a piece of the pie. It would be one thing if all the debts were split but they weren't all the money went to the American creditor or parent company and none of it went to the people of Nackawick which were owed 10 million or so. Not only that but they paid into the pension fund, that money went up in smoke. So don't twist my words becuase you hate the Canadian worker it is a good thing someone is out there organizing them so they can fight for what is as much theirs as anyone elses. No one persons rights outways another, and the investors in those companies have rights, bankrupcy laws were written to be fair to everyone, and if you were sitting on the other side of them you would have different veiw, but you can't see passed your nose can you. This is extortion it is illegal, what these people are doing is wrong you cannot seize property you don't own. Their are legal was to protest and do what they are doing. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
blueblood Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Uh, no.http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2009/01...f-the-year.html "For the 32nd year in a row, Ford’s award-winning F-Series is America’s best-selling truck with 2008 sales of 515,513." Considering your allergy to facts as noted above, I'll give this editorial the credit it is due. GM outsells ford, the only reason ford claims to have #1 sales is that they base their numbers against GMC and Chev, not versus GM. They should be basing their number vs. GM as the only difference between a GMC and a chev is the grille. Visit My Website Toyota is one of the fastest growing automakers, and has passed GM as number 1, those are facts deal with it. Toyota didn't become number 1 by accident, they became number 1 because the big three produce overpriced crap. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
punked Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 No one persons rights outways another, and the investors in those companies have rights, bankrupcy laws were written to be fair to everyone, and if you were sitting on the other side of them you would have different veiw, but you can't see passed your nose can you. This is extortion it is illegal, what these people are doing is wrong you cannot seize property you don't own. Their are legal was to protest and do what they are doing. That is why I am asking why do the investors rights out weigh the workers? Seems the workers got nothing, it wasn't like the bankruptcy was split 50/50 the investor got all the money when the mill went bankrupt and the workers got nothing. Their claim to the debts is just as valid as the investors. So you are defending the system where an American company got all the money and the Canadian workers got none. Talking out of both sides of your mouth again. It maybe illegal but if it is the only to make sure your entire retirement savings doesn't go up in Smoke like in Nackawick and that you are aren't eating dog food then you do it. The workers are entailed just as much to the money that they are owed as the parent companies but you don't see it that way becuase you hate the worker and are cheerleading for the system where they get nothing they are owed like in Nackawick. Good keep it up I hope this continues to be the Conservative view that way Unions will never die as you dream of at night. Someone has to protect the worker. Quote
madmax Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 No one persons rights outways another, and the investors in those companies have rights, bankrupcy laws were written to be fair to everyone, Quote
Alta4ever Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 That is why I am asking why do the investors rights out weigh the workers? Seems the workers got nothing, it wasn't like the bankruptcy was split 50/50 the investor got all the money when the mill went bankrupt and the workers got nothing. Their claim to the debts is just as valid as the investors. So you are defending the system where an American company got all the money and the Canadian workers got none. Talking out of both sides of your mouth again. It maybe illegal but if it is the only to make sure your entire retirement savings doesn't go up in Smoke like in Nackawick and that you are aren't eating dog food then you do it. The workers are entailed just as much to the money that they are owed as the parent companies but you don't see it that way becuase you hate the worker and are cheerleading for the system where they get nothing they are owed like in Nackawick. Good keep it up I hope this continues to be the Conservative view that way Unions will never die as you dream of at night. Someone has to protect the worker. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_in_Canada the laws and the creditor payout have been set, it is as fair as it gets, maybe instead of spending so much worring about layoff payouts and do what they need to do to find new employment they wouldn't have to eat dog food. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
benny Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 maybe instead of spending so much worring about layoff payouts and do what they need to do to find new employment they wouldn't have to eat dog food. "Job job job!", "get a job!", as the universal cure-all solution, is yet another obscenely arbitrary tautology. Quote
guyser Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 bankrupcy laws were written to be fair to everyone, and if you were sitting on the other side of them you would have different veiw, but you can't see passed your nose can you. Bankruptcy laws are far from fair to everyone. Be on the downside one day and you'll know. This is extortion it is illegal, what these people are doing is wrong you cannot seize property you don't own. Actually yes you can. In this case it may not be legal, but it can be done legally. Quote
Alta4ever Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Bankruptcy laws are far from fair to everyone. Be on the downside one day and you'll know.Actually yes you can. In this case it may not be legal, but it can be done legally. Brankrupcy laws are as fair as they get keep in mind that the debts usually outstrip the assets so no one gets everything they think they deserve. Everyone gets screwed. Whe will you union peole learn you can't get blood from a stne the fact that something was offered is better then getting nothing, but that is something lost on unions isn't. Just think of the time that is being wasted by these people who will likely get nothing more then what was offered, and still have to find work. This will not change between today and tomorrow, so why waste the time and resources. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 "Job job job!", "get a job!", as the universal cure-all solution, is yet another obscenely arbitrary tautology. So when this is settle and the workers get nothing more then is offerred what will they be left with and what will they have to do to survive....they will have to find work. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
guyser Posted March 19, 2009 Report Posted March 19, 2009 Brankrupcy laws are as fair as they get... Everyone gets screwed. They are at times extremely unfair , not everyone gets screwed. The one with the most money never gets screwed. Whe will you union peole learn you can't get blood from a stne the fact that something was offered is better then getting nothing, but that is something lost on unions isn't. Union people? Is Mr Canada posting around here? If you think I like unions, reconsider since I pratically loathe unions, but I loathe the way the common people get screwed in scenarios like this. Just think of the time that is being wasted by these people who will likely get nothing more then what was offered, and still have to find work. This will not change between today and tomorrow, so why waste the time and resources. They have to take a stance, get the publicity moving and hopefully shame them into treating them right. EVeryone has a breaking point. This is theres. Quote
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