Chrysler already working behind the scenes to pull out of Canada: sour

[msj]

Working standards and safety aren't things that should be bargained on. There are set standards that have to be followed and it should always be that way.

I agree with this.

It annoys me that I pay my staff properly (give them time and a half for overtime) when I know other firms don't.

Sure, it's a cut in my earnings but at least my staff rollover is low.

Of course, in BC, Chartered Accountants are specifically allowed to not pay overtime to their staff - but that does not make it right.

Especially when Certified General Accountants are not exempted so, by law, must pay time and a half (or double time if appropriate).

Yeah, BC has some dumb laws.

[blueblood]

I responded to the part of his post that had nothing to do with unions. Working standards and safety aren't things that should be bargained on. There are set standards that have to be followed and it should always be that way.

however customers aren't willing to pay for those extra costs, hence why we have so much foreign investment going on. However, standards and safety will go there as a result of competition for workers (this happens well into the long term)

[Smallc]

however customers aren't willing to pay for those extra costs,

Too bad. Safety is the cost of doing business. In this province, The Workplace Safety and Health Act W210 is law. Manitoba labour standards are the law. These things can't be bargained.

[benny]

Too bad. Safety is the cost of doing business. In this province, The Workplace Safety and Health Act W210 is law. Manitoba labour standards are the law. These things can't be bargained.

If safety in the car business would really matter, I think Ralph Nader would have won a presidential race by now.

[blueblood]

Too bad. Safety is the cost of doing business. In this province, The Workplace Safety and Health Act W210 is law. Manitoba labour standards are the law. These things can't be bargained.

Tell me, who has better sales and a bottom line Walmart or the Body Shop? Would you want the Manitoba economy to tank because of extreme safety standards?

And that results in more and more foreign investment. If it costs too much to meet safety standards in Manitoba vs. SK or Alberta, guess where business goes...

There's a reason why Walmart is so successful...

Edited March 18, 2009 by blueblood

[Visionseeker]

The only thing Chrysler (Dodge) trucks have going for them is the Cummins Turbo Diesel, which btw is manufactured in good old Brazil.

I am praying for the day when Toyota comes out with a 3/4 and 1 ton diesel pickup truck so I can ditch my GM truck for something a lot better and not support Unionized propagandist crap.

I call bullsh!t!

I own a Dodge Caravan that has taken my young family on 3 long road trips. It also happens to be our only vehicle which has stood-up remarkable well on that score. Until recently, my biggest complaint was how quickly the brakes needed replacing. But my neighbours owning Honda and Toyota vans have the same gripe.

Toyota will never produce what you ask because the mid-construction truck market in Japan is absolutely cornered by Mercedes (much like the F-150 is here).

The problem with North American automakers isn't cost, but rather the need to capture declining global market share. The big three produce good vehicles. Problem is, there are fewer buyers.

[Smallc]

There's a reason why Walmart is so successful...

Wal Mart has to meet the same basic safety standards (and they aren't all that basic)...standards that are very similar across the country.

[Visionseeker]

Chrysler isn't going anywhere. Execs saw what GM workers agreed/caved to and are trying to pull Chrysler workers down further. Regardless, the pension plans of both companies (along with many other corporations) are destined to fail due to poor capitalization.

Understand this, the problem with the big three isn't about cars; it's about declining markets and unsustainable pensions and other benefits obligations. The OECD countries simply have too many retirees for every worker and the promises made to those retirees can no longer be fulfilled.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Visionseeker

[benny]

As it is well known, producing all similar goods in only one location allows scale economies. This should help Canadians to say goodbye to Chrysler in Canada.

[punked]

You are right some have high quality and high prices (ford) and some have low quality and low prices (GM)

But if you want high quaity and low prices you really do have to shun the union shop...

No that it's true you have to Shun older car companies with a lot of retirees. That is where the real costs are not in unions.

Edited March 18, 2009 by punked

[benny]

No that it's true you have to Shun older car companies with a lot of retirees. That is where the real costs are not in unions.

The problem may be that we ask a car manufacturer to produce not only cars but also long-term human relationships.

[blueblood]

I call bullsh!t!

I own a Dodge Caravan that has taken my young family on 3 long road trips. It also happens to be our only vehicle which has stood-up remarkable well on that score. Until recently, my biggest complaint was how quickly the brakes needed replacing. But my neighbours owning Honda and Toyota vans have the same gripe.

Toyota will never produce what you ask because the mid-construction truck market in Japan is absolutely cornered by Mercedes (much like the F-150 is here).

The problem with North American automakers isn't cost, but rather the need to capture declining global market share. The big three produce good vehicles. Problem is, there are fewer buyers.

GM outsells the F-150. Toyota however is catching up. Hell Nissan got into the mix. I can't comment on vans, because I would never be caught dead driving one.

Except that Tundras are made in North America. In spite of declining sales, there is a market for diesel pickup trucks and it has been very profitable. I'm quite certain V8 pickup trucks weren't a hit in Japan either.

The big 3 produce shite and the critics and a large proportion of consumers agree with me.

[blueblood]

Wal Mart has to meet the same basic safety standards (and they aren't all that basic)...standards that are very similar across the country.

Walmart also has a very large if not majority of its products manufactured from countries that have very little basic safety standards. The body shop does not, and its customers pay for that. Also Walmart tends to perform better than the body shop.

[Vancouver King]

It may take time but markets in the future will be more complex, and free.

Complex derivatives spawned in a regulation-free market have given us the mother of all recessions and you yearn for another. Have you considered writing press relleases for AIG?

[Smallc]

The big 3 produce shite and the critics and a large proportion of consumers agree with me.

Actually, in the case of Ford, most critics don't agree with you anymore...especially when it comes to trucks....in fact...they never agreed with you in the case of trucks.

[Alta4ever]

But many on the right want to loosen regulations on labour and let industry set the standard for safety and the like. Perhaps we will see a twofold approach. Ban the unions and end labour legislation.

I said nothing about ending labour standards, quit tring to put word in peoples mouths.

So you agree that unions have outlived their day?

[blueblood]

Actually, in the case of Ford, most critics don't agree with you anymore...especially when it comes to trucks....in fact...they never agreed with you in the case of trucks.

Ford gas trucks are absoulute shite, they are the most inefficient truck on the road right now. They are extremely gutless, and suck a pile of gas. The GM has a way better motor than ford does hands down. I did own an 05 F-150, and I hated it. It spent it's fair time in the shop as well.

Ford's Diesel's are adequate, but they do not hold a candle to a Cummins. The GM is also adequate. Comparing a Navistar/Duramax to a Cummins is like comparing corn flakes to steak.

[ToadBrother]

I said nothing about ending labour standards, quit tring to put word in peoples mouths.

So you agree that unions have outlived their day?

What do you propose to replace unions with? Is the government going to become the arbitrator? I mean, I think unions make ludicrous decisions and often foist insane provisions on employers, but it's not as if businesses are perfect, and it sure the hell is clear that government isn't. I'm really curious, what would replace a union?

[Alta4ever]

What do you propose to replace unions with? Is the government going to become the arbitrator? I mean, I think unions make ludicrous decisions and often foist insane provisions on employers, but it's not as if businesses are perfect, and it sure the hell is clear that government isn't. I'm really curious, what would replace a union?

laybour standards already protect the worker, nothing needs to replace the union. It should become nothing more then a peice of history, that served man kind in its day.

[ToadBrother]

laybour standards already protect the worker, nothing needs to replace the union. It should become nothing more then a peice of history, that served man kind in its day.

So how precisely would I seek wage increases and benefits. Labor standards has nothing to say on those. Is the government going to make legislation forcing these sorts of things, or will workers simply be screwed? I'm not trying to ask leading questions here, I'm trying to sort out what we replace unions with, and how what we replace them with will be of benefit to the workers.

[Alta4ever]

So how precisely would I seek wage increases and benefits. Labor standards has nothing to say on those. Is the government going to make legislation forcing these sorts of things, or will workers simply be screwed? I'm not trying to ask leading questions here, I'm trying to sort out what we replace unions with, and how what we replace them with will be of benefit to the workers.

You would go a negociated with the companty yourself, just like I have done and may others do. Why should some maybe like you who works harder then another employee be doomed to the same wage and benfits yet you are doing your utmost to be more productive. how being passed over for promotion simply because you have not had more years at a company then someone elese even though you do more fo rthe company, and have better qualifications.

I am no longer in a unionized job, i make way better money have better benefits, and I don't have to pay a union.

[Wilber]

Most of the places I worked that had unions, got them because they deserved them. Unions can have the effect of raising working standards everywhere but when their own standards far exceed those of their competitors, they can become their own worse enemy. There has to be a balance maintained in everything. The auto business is out of whack at present.

[ToadBrother]

You would go a negociated with the companty yourself, just like I have done and may others do. Why should some maybe like you who works harder then another employee be doomed to the same wage and benfits yet you are doing your utmost to be more productive. how being passed over for promotion simply because you have not had more years at a company then someone elese even though you do more fo rthe company, and have better qualifications.

I am no longer in a unionized job, i make way better money have better benefits, and I don't have to pay a union.

Let's take an employer with, say five thousand employees. How would one go about negotiating their own contract? If they felt management was being unfair, how would they raise the legal funds necessary to challenge them?

Unions can be crappy things, but so can management. There has to be some mechanism to right wrongs, to assure protection of workers. As my grandfather, who was hardly a bleeding-edge liberal once said, the companies behaved in a fashion that forced unions, and as much as he thought his union (the IWA) was as crooked as they come, he had worked before and after the unionization and said things were 1000% better.

[Alta4ever]

Let's take an employer with, say five thousand employees. How would one go about negotiating their own contract? If they felt management was being unfair, how would they raise the legal funds necessary to challenge them?

Unions can be crappy things, but so can management. There has to be some mechanism to right wrongs, to assure protection of workers. As my grandfather, who was hardly a bleeding-edge liberal once said, the companies behaved in a fashion that forced unions, and as much as he thought his union (the IWA) was as crooked as they come, he had worked before and after the unionization and said things were 1000% better.

If you don't think you have balls to take on management find another job, its pretty easy. Yimes have changed since you grandfather was in the workforce.

[ToadBrother]

If you don't think you have balls to take on management find another job, its pretty easy. Yimes have changed since you grandfather was in the workforce.

Judging by the conduct of large corporations in recent years, I think they're looking distinctly like they did fifty years ago.