The rise of Harper populism

[jdobbin]

http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2...r-populism.html

It was the so-called fiscal conservatism that was the glue that held the social conservatives, Red Tories, and libertarians in a quasi-stable state. But for Harper, fiscal conservatism is no longer essential to his populist message. It is rather the opposite: government is here to save you. Government will help you. Government will save the market from itself. And we’ll promote and protect freedom, family and faith for good measure.

Harper is busy throwing libertarians and classical liberals under the bus as part of his move to re-brand the party as an aggressively centrist party that promotes false notions of pragmatism and steady governance. He is, in fact, building a new house on the foundations that the Liberal Party of Canada is built on by building a populist mythos to replace the mythos of Trudeau’s Canada. A senior Conservative Party strategist even went so far to say that “the Conservative Party is well on it’s way to becoming the natural governing party of Canada”.

I tend to agree. Harper abandoning fiscal conservatism from the outset in now alienating more and more of the base.

Going to deficit seems to set off the talk shows like wildfire.

This above writer says the Tories need to be defeated.

The Conservative Party is in dire need of being saved from itself. It is in dire need of being defeated so real debate, instead of naked partisanship and populism can be replaced by real principle again.

[ToadBrother]

http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2...r-populism.html

I tend to agree. Harper abandoning fiscal conservatism from the outset in now alienating more and more of the base.

Going to deficit seems to set off the talk shows like wildfire.

This above writer says the Tories need to be defeated.

To be replaced with what exactly? If you think the Tories are bad for heading into deficit territory, WTF do you think the Liberals would do?

Or is this the prelude to "Resurrect Reform, This Time We'll Make It!"

[DrGreenthumb]

No self-respecting Libertarian would have ever supported the authoritarian Harper Conservatives anyway. What he said is not nearly insulting as the things he is trying to do.

[Topaz]

No self-respecting Libertarian would have ever supported the authoritarian Harper Conservatives anyway. What he said is not nearly insulting as the things he is trying to do.

OR how many of the Progressive Conservatives REALLY supports Harper. It's so confusing with the provincial conservatives still calling themselves Progressive Conservatives rather than Conservatives. I'm waiting if Harper will send out a memo to the provinces conservatives stating you are now "Conservative" drop the progressive!!

[Progressive Tory]

Or is this the prelude to "Resurrect Reform, This Time We'll Make It!"

The last federal deficit was left by Brian Mulroney. 42 Billion dollars. I'm pretty sure he was a Conservative.

[jdobbin]

To be replaced with what exactly? If you think the Tories are bad for heading into deficit territory, WTF do you think the Liberals would do?

The Liberals didn't have a deficit for years.

Or is this the prelude to "Resurrect Reform, This Time We'll Make It!"

I think the writer says that he wants to stick to principles. The criticism he appears to be making is that Harper has broken the main principle of not being fiscal conservative and that people like him will look elsewhere.

[Alta4ever]

The last federal deficit was left by Brian Mulroney. 42 Billion dollars. I'm pretty sure he was a Conservative.

Not that i liked Mulrooney but his deficit was the reslut of bad management in the prioir adminsitration Trudeau, debt servicing and intrest rates are largely to do with the increase under mulrooney

[Smallc]

Not that i liked Mulroney but his deficit was the result of bad management in the prior administration Trudeau

Of course it was? Could it be because of anything else?

[Alta4ever]

Of course it was? Could it be because of anything else?

So you didn't know that Trudeau ran huge deficits, that when he left office we were hevily in debt, and at that time intrest rates were heading into the double digits? That to keep the social programs in effect that he and other liberal governments had created required either huge tax increase to keep at a bad economic time, or running deficits until the recession ( which was worse then this one) had corrected. Our National debt is a result of legacy of trudeau.

:ole I said I am no fan of Mulrooney, but the deficit was a result of trudeau and compounded by mulrooney.

[jdobbin]

Not that i liked Mulrooney but his deficit was the reslut of bad management in the prioir adminsitration Trudeau, debt servicing and intrest rates are largely to do with the increase under mulrooney

I guess this another case of blame the Liberals. Where were the Tory cuts in spending. They had majorities. All they did was raise taxes. 19 times.

[Smallc]

It's funny how every Conservative deficit is the fault of the Liberals. Yes, I freely admit that Trudeau ran deficits, but that doesn't excuse Brian Mulroney or Stephen Harper.

[blueblood]

It's funny how every Conservative deficit is the fault of the Liberals. Yes, I freely admit that Trudeau ran deficits, but that doesn't excuse Brian Mulroney or Stephen Harper.

Argus gives a good explanation on Mulroney's deficits. Something about the interest rates being so high, that deficits were needed to pay off the interest rate, it was messed.

Harper didn't want to run a deficit, but Stephane Dion et. all pissed and moaned and we're into what we have now.

[jdobbin]

Argus gives a good explanation on Mulroney's deficits. Something about the interest rates being so high, that deficits were needed to pay off the interest rate, it was messed.

However, Mulroney spent too much and fueled inflation which helped cause higher interest rates which caused higher deficits.

Harper didn't want to run a deficit, but Stephane Dion et. all pissed and moaned and we're into what we have now.

Please. No one said to run a deficit. There was plenty of opportunity from 2006 to now to be ready for a downturn. Harper spending was out of control.

[blueblood]

However, Mulroney spent too much and fueled inflation which helped cause higher interest rates which caused higher deficits.

Please. No one said to run a deficit. There was plenty of opportunity from 2006 to now to be ready for a downturn. Harper spending was out of control.

Spent on what, paying off Trudeau's gong show. Argus has clearly debunked the Mulroney myth.

The opposition was calling for massive stimulus injection, I don't know about you, but that sounds like a deficit to me. PMPM's spending proposals make Harper look like a cheapskate.

[jdobbin]

Spent on what, paying off Trudeau's gong show. Argus has clearly debunked the Mulroney myth.

Baloney. It wasn't all on debt payments. He spent freely on many areas and there were not a lot of cuts just a lot a tax increases. 19 times of those.

The opposition was calling for massive stimulus injection, I don't know about you, but that sounds like a deficit to me. PMPM's spending proposals make Harper look like a cheapskate.

Actually, according to the CTF, Martin spent less in each year than the Tories have. Those are facts.

[blueblood]

Baloney. It wasn't all on debt payments. He spent freely on many areas and there were not a lot of cuts just a lot a tax increases. 19 times of those.

Actually, according to the CTF, Martin spent less in each year than the Tories have. Those are facts.

A lot of it was on debt payments, Mulroney did all right considering with the mess that Trudeau left him.

I'm not talking about what Martin spent, I'm talking about what he would spend. And quite frankly it's a good thing he didn't get in, I'd cringe at what the numbers would have looked like. PMPM's idea of fixing a problem is throwing a little bit of money at it and hopes it goes away, thank God Canadians voted out that incompetant fool.

[jdobbin]

A lot of it was on debt payments, Mulroney did all right considering with the mess that Trudeau left him.

Please. Tell me where Mulroney made a concerted effort to reduce the civil service, hold the line on transfers, cutting federal programs?

He had a majority. Twice. He spent 8 years spending and raising taxes.

I'm not talking about what Martin spent, I'm talking about what he would spend. And quite frankly it's a good thing he didn't get in, I'd cringe at what the numbers would have looked like. PMPM's idea of fixing a problem is throwing a little bit of money at it and hopes it goes away, thank God Canadians voted out that incompetant fool.

And Martin was defeated. None of those programs were put into place or lasted.

Harper went on to spend on his own bloated programs.

[Alta4ever]

It takes time and money to clean up liberal messes.

[jdobbin]

It takes time and money to clean up liberal messes.

Eight years, two majorities and no meaningful cuts? What was holding them back? Oh yes, two times trying to tear the country apart with Meech and Charlottetown.

[charter.rights]

Baloney. It wasn't all on debt payments. He spent freely on many areas and there were not a lot of cuts just a lot a tax increases. 19 times of those.

Actually, according to the CTF, Martin spent less in each year than the Tories have. Those are facts.

Mulroney doubled the national debt during his term.

Edited March 18, 2009 by charter.rights

[Alta4ever]

Eight years, two majorities and no meaningful cuts? What was holding them back? Oh yes, two times trying to tear the country apart with Meech and Charlottetown.

I seem to recall that meech lake would have unified the country had trudeau not suck his nose in.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Alta4ever

[Alta4ever]

Mulroney doubled the national debt during his term.

ever hear of the rule of 72 at the interst rates of the day it would have only taken 6 years to double the national debt that trudeau left.

[jdobbin]

I seem to recall that meech lake would have unified the country had trudeau not suck his nose in.

There were problems with the deal from the start. Any citizen was free to point them out.

[August1991]

I tend to agree. Harper abandoning fiscal conservatism from the outset in now alienating more and more of the base.

Dobbin, I suspect that if I pretend that Ignatieff has lost his base carries more credence than if you pretend that Harper has lost his base.

Dobbin, like a lease agent (or a Liberal), you confuse everything to obtain an advantage.

Let me make this plain: Stephen Harper is more honest and direct than Michael Ignatieff.

[ToadBrother]

I seem to recall that meech lake would have unified the country had trudeau not suck his nose in.

That's just Mulroney's paranoia and inferiority complex. He needed a convenient scapegoat for his failures, and it seems, more often than not, that scapegoat was Trudeau.