Freedom of the Press, Speech, and Thought, RIP

[WIP]

Vatican?

Yeah, I wonder when that shoe will drop on us too, because if you talk to some people who come from countries like Guatemala and El Salvador, where the Catholic Church is in bed with the government and has been granted extensive authority over education and the judicial process as well, it sounds a lot like Saudi Arabia with crosses.

[jbg]

Yeah, I wonder when that shoe will drop on us too, because if you talk to some people who come from countries like Guatemala and El Salvador, where the Catholic Church is in bed with the government and has been granted extensive authority over education and the judicial process as well, it sounds a lot like Saudi Arabia with crosses.

Except that non-Catholics don't die in Guatemala and El Salvador.

[bjre]

Except that non-Catholics don't die in Guatemala and El Salvador.

And non-catholics did not invade there that cost of many thousands life there.

[jbg]

And non-catholics did not invade there that cost of many thousands life there.

Plenty of non-Catholics have "invaded" Boston and Montreal with no measurable loss of life.

[bjre]

Plenty of non-Catholics have "invaded" Boston and Montreal with no measurable loss of life.

Did non-Catholics use F117 and cluster bombs in Guatemala and El Salvador?

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah, I wonder when that shoe will drop on us too, because if you talk to some people who come from countries like Guatemala and El Salvador, where the Catholic Church is in bed with the government and has been granted extensive authority over education and the judicial process as well, it sounds a lot like Saudi Arabia with crosses.

No, actually it sounds a lot like present day Ontario.

[bjre]

No, actually it sounds a lot like present day Ontario.

There is a non-Catholics Vincent Li killed a local person Tim McLean. There are people want a new Tim's Law to kill Li.

If the result of non-Catholics come makes thousand dead, don't you think it possible for Ku Klux Klan come back to kill non-Catholics? That is just the current situation in middle east.

You might say 911 happened first. Well, that becomes the problem to ask whether there is hen first or egg first.

Then when can put this to an end?

Is it possible for all countries never use force again. just use peaceful method to solve all problems?

Edited March 14, 2009 by bjre

[Melanie_]

Religion has to be open to criticism – if it has any validity, it can handle a few questions. Let journalists write what they want about Islam, Judaism, Christianity, or any other religion; people are free to write a rebuttal, to defend their perspective, and to prove the journalists wrong if possible.

Democracy means everyone is equal, and everyone has an equal right to say what they think. Even the most biased argument must be heard, if only to give the opportunity to debunk it. There’s no place for censorship in a free society.

[Argus]

Yeah, I wonder when that shoe will drop on us too, because if you talk to some people who come from countries like Guatemala and El Salvador, where the Catholic Church is in bed with the government and has been granted extensive authority over education and the judicial process as well, it sounds a lot like Saudi Arabia with crosses.

Please post cites about the religious police in Guatemala arresting women because their skirts are too short, or for driving, or for showing hair around their kerchiefs. Please post cites from El Salvador about people being arrested by the police for worshiping another langauge, or displaying or wearing a religious symbol not approved by the Church. Please post cites about young girls beaten back into buildings which are on fire because the religious police don't believe they are modestly dressed.

You clearly don't have the first clue about what you're talking about and are making stupid comparisons because, like other lefties, you can't stand the thought of people cirticising non-Christans for ANYTHING. Your first instinct is to therefore to jump in and post something... anything anti-Christian to show we're just as bad as those others.

Please show a cite from Guatemala about a teenage girl hanged by the state because she fornicated with someone out of wedlock.

[Argus]

And non-catholics did not invade there that cost of many thousands life there.

No, and they don't have massive labour camps populated by political prisoners, as China does, which forces those prisoners to work in warehouses where goods are exported abroad - despite China's repeated promises and assurances that slave-labour is not used in export-related industries.

[Argus]

Did non-Catholics use F117 and cluster bombs in Guatemala and El Salvador?

Do Catholics force abortions on women, or simply murder the infants right after birth as the state does in China?

[M.Dancer]

Did non-Catholics use F117 and cluster bombs in Guatemala and El Salvador?

No pretty sure non catholics did not use F117 and cluster bombs in those places.

[M.Dancer]

What is the purpose/aim/goal of democracy? Is it just for elect a new president?

I think the most important thing is make most people happy, satisfy most people's need. I think in the past 30 years, although there are still many problems, China overall did a very good job on this.

The purpose of democracy is none of those things.....

[Oleg Bach]

No pretty sure non catholics did not use F117 and cluster bombs in those places.

Come to think of it - after getting to know those of Irish decent and even breeding with the little green minded fiends...they are nasty - violent liars - and secretive to the point of conspiratorial devilishness ---- so are the Irish Catholics? If so - it sure did not do them any good - must be genetic? F117 - cluster bombs...boy- you people even know the codes and numbers of most weaponry ----go easy with the toys kids - all fun and games till someone loses an eye.

[Canapathy]

The purpose of democracy is none of those things.....

Its Not the Voting that’s Democracy, Its the Counting.

[bjre]

Do Catholics force abortions on women, or simply murder the infants right after birth as the state does in China?

"murder the infants right after birth" is a crime, and will be charged in any country.

It is not China'a policy to force abortions. Some of local government members did that. They will be punished if they do so.

If China don't control population, after some time, there will not only 1/5 earth's population be Chinese like now, Half of earth's population will be Chinese, is that the result you want and happy with?

Edited March 15, 2009 by bjre

[bjre]

No, and they don't have massive labour camps populated by political prisoners, as China does, which forces those prisoners to work in warehouses where goods are exported abroad - despite China's repeated promises and assurances that slave-labour is not used in export-related industries.

I don't think China has massive political prisoners, there are some arrested because of violence.

For asking the prisoner to work, I think it is a good idea, why others have to work and use their tax dollars to feed criminals? Even in Canada, some people were asked to work for community for several hundred hours if they crime.

Don't blame China in business if politicians here are able to manage the economy well in Canada.

Why in current recession, China can still keep a 6%-8% growth and Harper can not?

China's export was not more than 9% in its GDP.

Actually, I think it is much less than that, because all export part has a record, while in China, business level are much behind of Canada, too many farmers get all their own food directly from their own land instead of buy from market, and many cash purchase (it is the most popular method) were not recorded.

And in China, different area the money has different value, in large cities, same amount money may only worth less than 1/3 or even 1/10 value compare with undeveloped area while buying food or real estate.

So I believe the GDP value of China may much less than the value that can tell the real size of the economy.

China is not so much rely on export as you think.

[bjre]

Come to think of it - after getting to know those of Irish decent and even breeding with the little green minded fiends...they are nasty - violent liars - and secretive to the point of conspiratorial devilishness ---- so are the Irish Catholics? If so - it sure did not do them any good - must be genetic? F117 - cluster bombs...boy- you people even know the codes and numbers of most weaponry ----go easy with the toys kids - all fun and games till someone loses an eye.

And Depleted Uranium bomb, White Phosphorus bomb, and maybe others.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...;articleId=1239

Edited March 15, 2009 by bjre

[Argus]

I don't think China has massive political prisoners, there are some arrested because of violence.

People are routinely executed in China for "crimes" which involve no violence, and you believe that people are only arrested for violence?

For asking the prisoner to work, I think it is a good idea,

It is against international law to export goods made with the labour of prisoners, especially political prisoners.

Unfortunately, China routinely lies and cheats with regard to this and all other international agreements it makes. It is a nation without any concept of ethics, honesty or honour.

[bjre]

It is against international law to export goods made with the labour of prisoners, especially political prisoners.

China has so many goods can export, it need not export prisoner products.

If there is such things export and reported, they will stop export when they find it.

Unfortunately, China routinely lies and cheats with regard to this and all other international agreements it makes. It is a nation without any concept of ethics, honesty or honour.

This has nothing to do with ethics, there are too many ethics problem in western world. Blame each other does not help.

One thing I don't understand: why prisoner should not work?

[M.Dancer]

One thing I don't understand: why prisoner should not work?

Because slavery if frowned upon. Especially in a countrty where thought crime is enough to make you a slave.

[bjre]

Because slavery if frowned upon. Especially in a countrty where thought crime is enough to make you a slave.

So work means slavery? I guess my current work likes slavery, I have no freedom because I have not enough money, I have to work to make living.

Why can not use Ombudsman? Just for fear of slavery, every man and woman, senior and kids have to pay $400CAD a year to feed those criminals?

I think Canada's criminals may have more human rights than ordinary people.

Edited March 15, 2009 by bjre

[Michael Hardner]

I don't think China has massive political prisoners, there are some arrested because of violence.

bjre,

You have already indicated that you don't accept other sources of information, only China's. That' why you "don't think". China does your thinking for you. I doubt you'll find any Canadians on here who are as unconditionally supportive of our government as you are of yours. That's because we know that they're all flawed, thanks to independent information sources.

You indicated that coming here was perhaps a mistake. I can see why living in an open world would be difficult for someone like you, and why it would be easy to go back where everything is kept hidden.

[M.Dancer]

So work means slavery? I guess my current work likes slavery, I have no freedom because I have not enough money, I have to work to make living.

Why can not use Ombudsman? Just for fear of slavery, every man and woman, senior and kids have to pay $400CAD a year to feed those criminals?

I think Canada's criminals may have more human rights than ordinary people.

I suppose fish have no word for water....sometimes slaves have no idea what slavery means....

I can't say whether you are a slave or not...I suppose if you have no choice where or what you do and when you are allowed to sleep or wake, what you eat and when you can shit....but you do sound like a good uncle tom....

[bjre]

It's sad that someone like you comes here from your dictatorship, and yet your mind is still back home, still in a cage. You've been taught that all those nasty things people say about China are wrong, and that cage is still wrapped around your head. You're in a free land now but you ignore all the evidence because you've been taught to distrust it all, and you never learned how to think for yourself. Nor do you seem much interested in trying. You are still a Chinese guy in a foreign land, looking around suspiciously, and looking to your "home" government for truth.

bjre,

You have already indicated that you don't accept other sources of information, only China's. That' why you "don't think". China does your thinking for you. I doubt you'll find any Canadians on here who are as unconditionally supportive of our government as you are of yours. That's because we know that they're all flawed, thanks to independent information sources.

I don't unconditionaly support any government. I don't loyal to any government, I only loyal to truth. I am not taught by any government. I am taught by the information from Internet, the place that has the most freedom of speech than any governement can provide.

So does many other Chinese people, More and more Chinese don't think as the same way as Chinese government. This happened with more and more westen concept come to China, like freedom, like democricy, and others.

For me I don't like china buy US treasury bonds. I prefer China use these money to increase the purchase willingness and ability for Chinese people so that other worker's life can be easier.

While government are enjoy bring more and more US method to China, more and more Chinese said they don't like the way. They don't like the stock market that eat 60% Chinese small invester's money and think that is a trap of US. They don't like the health insurace that make more and more chinese people can no long afford health expence which did not happen in Mao's time. Some Chinese people believes US convert China to a world factory has totally beat China's own industry and slaves China's people to use their cheap work force to let the western boss earn money to live their luxury life. Some Chinese people even believes all western recommanded things to help China are traps. If you can understand Chinese language and go to the web forums in China, you will find there are such things everywhere. Such opinions are not the opinion of Chinese government. There don't lack of freedom of speech in more and more topics in China.

And some of these opinions can make governement to change their policy.

For example, the anti-France protest for the Tibet policy makes Chinese govement change their policy so that France lost a lot of business.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24218173/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-05...419792923_x.htm

http://english.china.com/zh_cn/business/fo...6/15345091.html (Note: France not included)

So you can see, Chinese people have their own thinking, they are different with government thinking, and the thinking you will find it is even far away from you than the goverment thinking.

Actually, if you compare what I have talked about in this forum and compare with the report from Chinese governement, you could find there are *very* large difference.

Edited March 20, 2009 by bjre