bjre Posted March 12, 2009 Report Posted March 12, 2009 Really, bjre, why did you come ?The economy isn't as good, and Canada isn't better than China - at least insofar as they're both 'not perfect'. So why come to Canada ? Maybe you didn't have a choice... Come here may be an error, that based on the error messages from the consulting companies run by immigration lawyers who care only about money. However, it is ok for now. There are advantages in Canada. And if now I come back to China, it would not be easy for me to find a good job again and I am becoming old. Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
M.Dancer Posted March 12, 2009 Report Posted March 12, 2009 There are lots of developing countries, show me another that can do this. There are a lot but growth is relative. If last year I earned $10 and then earned $100, $200, $300.....my % growth is amazing. China growth from the cock up of communist central planning is similar. Despite the growth, most people still are poor compared to western nations and the gulf beween the rich and poor is growing faster than the economy. In terms of the fastest growing countries, China ranks 8th... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Michael Hardner Posted March 12, 2009 Report Posted March 12, 2009 bjre, There are advantages in Canada. Really ? From your posts it doesn't seem so. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Argus Posted March 12, 2009 Report Posted March 12, 2009 The point was that China ignores human rights and I'm just saying that so do we. You are as clueless as the Chinese guy. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 12, 2009 Report Posted March 12, 2009 There are advantages in Canada. And if now I come back to China, it would not be easy for me to find a good job again and I am becoming old. It's too bad wisdom does not come with age. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 12, 2009 Report Posted March 12, 2009 Argus,Unfortunately, examples such as bjre give credence to your arguments. I don't think his attitude is a good one. I think that some of the changes proposed to the citizenship oath require a pledge for democracy too. That would prevent bjre from becoming a Canadian citizen, if he has any honesty in him ( or her ). It is quite evident he does not know what democracy is - else he would not refer to China as a democracy. Nor does he understand what freedom of speech is, nor appreciate it. He is a Chinese guy, raised from birth with his mind in a cage, quite certain all contrary information is coming from the CIA or some other nefarious capitalist organization. He is a modern Chinese worker drone - unthinking, not caring about a cage he has no particular interest in going beyond anyway, blithely accepting whatever the Communists tell him. And if they tell him - have a look on your company's computer and get some R&D for us, he would probably do that too. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
capricorn Posted March 12, 2009 Report Posted March 12, 2009 However, it is ok for now. Good. This gives me hope that it will not be OK in the near future. bjre, it sounds like you'd be happier in your native land...you know... where you can rediscover free speech and respect for human rights. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
bjre Posted March 12, 2009 Report Posted March 12, 2009 China has NO kind of democracy. You apparently don't understand that word any more than you understand terms lke "freedom of speech". Yes, China has. Apart from some different style of democracy, China actually has something that is very similar with the western style. China to revise election law for farmers Just like the Ma, 1,285 farmer folks in Pingtang village voted that day. The first two people who get the most votes will run for the posts for which they were nominated. Wu Xiaogen, the village's Party branch secretary, said the election was aimed to "elect those who can really serve the interests of villagers." "When we had an exhibition in Europe, showing this election case in China's countryside, the Europeans were amazed at the democracy evident at village level in China," William Massolin, EUCo-Director of the Training Program on Village Governance, told Xinhua. In 2005, approximately 300,000 villages in China's 18 provinces had village committee elections. Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
M.Dancer Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Chines democracy is actually only just behind Saudi democracy in openess, multiplicity, and the certainess of the vote. In China anyone can be president, anyone so long as they are a member of the communist party in good standing and are pre apporoved by the ruling clique. OIn China, anyone can vote for whomever they please as long as they vite for the candidates approved by the party. Satistfaction of the system and the party approaches 100% as nearly everyone without a doctors note casts their votes as they are expected to. Three patriotic cheers for the Chinese Democracy and the one party state. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
bjre Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Three patriotic cheers for the Chinese Democracy and the one party state. Singapore is a one party state: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore The Constitution of the Republic of Singapore established the nation's political system as a representative democracy, while the country is recognised as a parliamentary republic.[11] The People's Action Party (PAP) dominates the political process and has won control of Parliament in every election since self-government in 1959.[12] China is not. For example, the health minister Chen Zhu is not a member of the communist party. There are many parties working inside Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference. Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
jbg Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Three patriotic cheers for the Chinese Democracy and the one party state.Chinese Democracy? Wasn't that the CD that took Guns 'n Roses 12 years to release? (link). Or is it the choice of "2 from Column A, 3 from Column B"? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bjre Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) There are a lot but growth is relative. If last year I earned $10 and then earned $100, $200, $300.....my % growth is amazing.China growth from the cock up of communist central planning is similar. Despite the growth, most people still are poor compared to western nations and the gulf beween the rich and poor is growing faster than the economy. In terms of the fastest growing countries, China ranks 8th... Then, why Clinton ask China for money to buy their treasury bonds, why she did not ask Canada for help? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...al_gam_mostview "I certainly do think that the Chinese government and central bank are making a smart decision by continuing to invest in treasury bonds," she said during an interview with the show One on One. http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displa...ory_id=12606998 WHEN Deng Xiaoping set China on the road of economic reforms in 1978, Western economists argued that “Only capitalism can save China.” Exactly 30 years later, some pundits are claiming that “Only China can save capitalism.” Most rich economies are now facing recession. But if China, the world’s third-biggest economy, can manage to sustain reasonably robust growth, it will help to cushion global output. Edited March 13, 2009 by bjre Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
bjre Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) If you would be willing to wager on this, I would like to consider it, but that will depend on how much you are going to bet, because I am not a political guy, I have a dream to become rich and I would like to donate several schools to China if I have money. Ahh, what a wonderful immigrant. A credit to the system. He wants to become rich so .... he can help people in his old country. Why I prefer to donate to China? Part of the reason is the corruption of Canadian charity. A very large part of your donation will become advertisement, office expanse, salary of the employees of the organizations and others. The rest part may not use for the people really need to help. Some part may even used to victimize kids (like the donation goes to CAS and related organizations through a well known very large charity company ) The following is one of the examples: http://www.metafilter.com/72257/Charity-be...es-ends-in-jail Charity begins at home. And sometimes ends in jail.The Banyan Tree Foundation promised to take donations from contributors to be redistributed to worthy Canadian recipients. The foundation also gave donors inflated charity receipts for tax declarations, and donors were encouraged to borrow money to contribute even more, and did... from a company now owned by Banyan Tree president Robert Thiessen. Now, the money has stopped flowing, and the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) has called the organization a "sham" and is going after Banyan donors for past charity receipts totalling more than CAD$100 million. The charity is still listed as a charity, which is provoking anger in the House of Commons. Many donors are participating in a class-action lawsuit against the Foundation. This type of donating, known as tax shelter donations, has been the subject of previous precautions by tax authorities and charity law specialists, and has caused problems for donors in the past as well. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/05/30/...yancharity.html A Toronto-based charitable foundation that gave out $208 million in tax receipts over the past six years was called a "sham" by the Canada Revenue Agency, tossing recipient charities into disarray and forcing donors to pay back close to $100 million to the government.What's more, the Banyan Tree Foundation offered many of its clients loans to increase their donations, so donors are also on the hook for tens of millions in loans to a company now owned by Banyan Tree president Robert Thiessen. I gave some donate to UnitedWay when I saw the impressive advertisements. After I know the truth, I will never give a cent to UnitedWay or any other organization. I prefer give some to any kids that ask me for bus ticket or ask me for a cup of coffee although some local people never trust them and never give them anything. Edited March 13, 2009 by bjre Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
M.Dancer Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 China is not. For example, the health minister Chen Zhu is not a member of the communist party.There are many parties working inside Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference. How many non party members have ever held a high position....two China is a defacto one party state. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Argus Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Yes, China has. Apart from some different style of democracy, China actually has something that is very similar with the western style. It is sad that seven years after arriving here you are still amost ENTIRELY ignorant about what democracy is, what it means, and what it's about. China has no democracy. None. Zero. Zip. Only a mindless Commuinst drone would think otherwise. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Then, why Clinton ask China for money to buy their treasury bonds, why she did not ask Canada for help? Beijing isn't Washington's Banker - more like it's grocer Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
g_bambino Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) It is sad that seven years after arriving here you are still amost ENTIRELY ignorant about what democracy is, what it means, and what it's about. China has no democracy. None. Zero. Zip. Only a mindless Commuinst drone would think otherwise. Why, then, does legend tell us that Ancient Athens was the birthplace of democracy? Only 15% of the population (male landowning citizens) could vote, and only from amongst that elite group could leaders be elected. That doesn't seem too far off of the present Chinese system. I'm certainly not saying China has as democratic a society as we do; but, when there's no absolute definition of "democracy", and we've defined a similar (albeit ancient) structure as democratic, can it really be said that there's no democracy in China? Mmm.. perhaps I'm just a mindless Communist drone... [ed. to correct] Edited March 13, 2009 by g_bambino Quote
Argus Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Why, then, does legend tell us that Ancient Athens was the birthplace of democracy? Only army generals could stand for election, and only male landowners could vote and participate in the assembly. That doesn't seem too far off of the present Chinese system.I'm certainly not saying China has as democratic a society as we do; but, when there's no absolute definition of "democracy", and we've defined a similar (albeit ancient) structure as democratic, can it really be said that there's no democracy in China? Mmm.. perhaps I'm just a mindless Communist drone... Well, first it isn't true they had to be generals, nor landowners. But in any event, a baby is not an adult, right? We don't expect the same capabilities from the former as the latter. I don't think anyone today, proposing a Greek style of 'democracy' would be called anything more than a fascist or dictator. Edited March 13, 2009 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
g_bambino Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Well, first it isn't true they had to be generals, nor landowners.But in any event, a baby is not an adult, right? We don't expect the same capabilities from the former as the latter. I don't think anyone today, proposing a Greek style of 'democracy' would be called anything more than a fascist or dictator. Yes, I later corrected myself on the generals thing, though not before you replied, obviously. Regardless, I've never heard of Ancient Athens having been described as a dictatorship, only as the birthplace of democracy. Clearly, the Athenian variety was democracy in its infancy, but we seem to regard it as democracy, none-the-less. Maybe we just need to give China another 2,000 years to catch up? Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Yes, I later corrected myself on the generals thing, though not before you replied, obviously.Regardless, I've never heard of Ancient Athens having been described as a dictatorship, only as the birthplace of democracy. Ancient Athens had more periods of dictarships than persiods of democracy ....but if that if the point you want to make, aside from Athens being a direct democracy, I concede, Chinese democracy is 2400 years behind the times... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
bjre Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Ancient Athens had more periods of dictarships than persiods of democracy ....but if that if the point you want to make, aside from Athens being a direct democracy, I concede, Chinese democracy is 2400 years behind the times... What is the purpose/aim/goal of democracy? Is it just for elect a new president? I think the most important thing is make most people happy, satisfy most people's need. I think in the past 30 years, although there are still many problems, China overall did a very good job on this. Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
Oleg Bach Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 What is the purpose/aim/goal of democracy? Is it just for elect a new president?I think the most important thing is make most people happy, satisfy most people's need. I think in the past 30 years, although there are still many problems, China overall did a very good job on this. Democracy always evolves into a situation where two wolves and one lamb are voting on what to have for dinner. There is no perfect system. Once the prevailing group take total power within a democracy -then there full time job becomes the maintainence of the ruse. Who ever controls media - or has hired the best liars - stays in control..what ever group has the most money to control the minds of the masses though media continues to rule - Look to what point democracy has declined - It went from a person like Lincoln who entered into politics pennyless for all intent and purpose - to a person who can not become president unless they have 100 million dollars and more to invest in the brain washing of the voters. Quote
WIP Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 I'm trying to get caught up on topics that I've missed, and scanning through the pages of this thread, I'm not seeing anything that has anything to say about the actual subject of the thread. By any chance has anyone actually commented about the U.N. resolution sponsored by Muslim advocates that want to try to shut down criticism of their religion. Now, there are people on this forum who want to try to stop criticism of Christianity, but as of now, they don't have the hubris to try something like this attempt to permanently entrench the grip of Islam. In many Muslim nations, the religion runs the government, the courts, the banks, the media....every facet of life has to conform to the dictates of this religion! But just in case there are cracks in theocratic tyranny, such as the off chance that some beleaguered Muslims might read something on the internet produced by infidels who challenge the validity of the Quran, and the merits of being totally burdened by religious tyranny, along comes this U.N. resolution to try to make it an in an international crime to shine a little light on the subject. This couldn't come at a worse time, since it would be nice to have an international body that can be trusted, because of real problems that affect every nation like climate change, genocides, food crises, destruction of tropical rainforests etc. Any thoughts? I'm not interested in reading about whatever the hell is going on in China! Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
Oleg Bach Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 I'm trying to get caught up on topics that I've missed, and scanning through the pages of this thread, I'm not seeing anything that has anything to say about the actual subject of the thread. By any chance has anyone actually commented about the U.N. resolution sponsored by Muslim advocates that want to try to shut down criticism of their religion. Now, there are people on this forum who want to try to stop criticism of Christianity, but as of now, they don't have the hubris to try something like this attempt to permanently entrench the grip of Islam. In many Muslim nations, the religion runs the government, the courts, the banks, the media....every facet of life has to conform to the dictates of this religion! But just in case there are cracks in theocratic tyranny, such as the off chance that some beleaguered Muslims might read something on the internet produced by infidels who challenge the validity of the Quran, and the merits of being totally burdened by religious tyranny, along comes this U.N. resolution to try to make it an in an international crime to shine a little light on the subject. This couldn't come at a worse time, since it would be nice to have an international body that can be trusted, because of real problems that affect every nation like climate change, genocides, food crises, destruction of tropical rainforests etc. Any thoughts? I'm not interested in reading about whatever the hell is going on in China! First the UN wants to quash all religions now they want to seperate and preseve them by creating a religion where as you can not critize a religion. Sounds like the begining of a one world religion. These egg heads down at the UN are always attempting to launch some half baked plan to actually have the world comply to their title of United Nations. So what is next, that one nation can not look at the next and say that something is wrong? These people are so manipulative that its almost pitiful. They have been trying since the League Of Nations to generate a body that has authority and wisdom - a wisdom that is supposedly of such a high calibre that it is fit to rule the world. So far they keep falling on their faces - and I hope the start knocking out their own teeth or even better bite their tongues.. There mode of operation is to treat all nations and humanity in general as being animalistic and unaware - so they treat us in the most cunning disrespectful manner possible - I lie on occassion - and it's mostly to the dogs in order to get them to comply. The UN kind of reminds me of me - and the dogs are the nations of trusting puppies. If there was a term similar to racism that would describe contempt for the human mind the UN would be guilty of it - Acedemics and ambitious groups of wealthy and privledged men have no crediblity when it comes to dealing with the world in a fair manner ---- I have heard some teacher on talk radio blurt out as far as rights ---"The UN says so" - as if this body over rides the laws of our national household - I do not recognize their wanna be authority over myself and my nation. I do not know them and they do not know me. The same can be said of nations. If there was compassionate true care and knowledge of nations by this body - they would not sit by during genocidal episode after episode and say nothing till thousands are dead - this is a pattern - they are inept as a group and unscrupulously deceptive. They can kiss my butt~ Quote
bjre Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 ... the religion runs the government, the courts, the banks, the media....every facet of life has to conform to the dictates of this religion! ... Vatican? Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
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