cybercoma Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 When you come up with some ideas on what you think makes us unique as Canadians maybe we can discuss it further.There are many things that we identify with as Canadians, the least of which being our brand of multiculturalism, bilingualism and our rights and freedoms. You can argue about the uniqueness of those things, but they are what has been used to create a civic nation for everyone from coast to coast to identify with. That's not to mention the symbols that we identify with: the national anthem, the maple leaf, etc. Regardless, those things are vastly different than a single ethnic unity. We are not a homogeneous ethnic nation, so the state needs to construct a civic identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 There are many things that we identify with as Canadians, the least of which being our brand of multiculturalism, bilingualism and our rights and freedoms. You can argue about the uniqueness of those things, but they are what has been used to create a civic nation for everyone from coast to coast to identify with. That's not to mention the symbols that we identify with: the national anthem, the maple leaf, etc. Regardless, those things are vastly different than a single ethnic unity. We are not a homogeneous ethnic nation, so the state needs to construct a civic identity. Multiculturalism and bilingualism doesn't make us unique. Most countries in Europe have both those things. So does the US - especially in the southwest - although they have not nationalized it. Most European nations also have a Constitution that include guarantees freedoms, so that isn't unique either. The symbols you mention are essentially fads, not cultural identifiers. Although we might have a flag, it is nothing special and there is no one rallying around it as if it really means something other than "this is Canada". It says nothing of its people. Canadians are cultureless peons. That is the point. Being civic-minded doesn't mean anything as far as identity goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Your opinion aside, those are the things that Canadians identify with. They may not be unique to Canada, but they are what the federal government uses to try to unify the country. Nation-state nationalism can lead to patriotism when it gets carried away. Patriotism leads to imperialism. It all starts with forging a national identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Multiculturalism and bilingualism doesn't make us unique. Most countries in Europe have both those things. You wouldnt admit a rock is hurtling at your head even while it splits it open. Multicult and biling does make us at least somewhat unique. Europe has those things do they? If you exclude the microtiny nations ,(Andorra, Lichtenstein,Monacco) no they do not. Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Belgium, Russia, Greece, Portugal, Slovenia and the United Kingdom all have betw 5 and 10% Austria (15%), Ukraine (15%), Croatia (15%), Ireland (14%), Moldova (13%), Germany (12%), Sweden (12%), Belarus (12%), Italy (11,9%),Spain (11%), France (10%) and the Netherlands (10%).[1] Canada 20% ...so much for your thoughts. Lets not forget that we do not have anti-immigrantion rallies the likes they have in the Netherlands, austria, France and Spain. Oh yes, we are so much similar Most European nations also have a Constitution that include guarantees freedoms, so that isn't unique either. Like France where they jail you indefintely should they wish? Riiight, just like us. The symbols you mention are essentially fads, not cultural identifiers. Although we might have a flag, it is nothing special and there is no one rallying around it as if it really means something other than "this is Canada". It says nothing of its people. It is a symbol of our country. We have lots of maple trees, and we love maple syrup and the Leafs. Show me a flag that shows others what the country is about? anyone will do. You dont like it? Fine, but that is hardly reason to slag it, since of course you live with the freedoms that come with it. Canadians are cultureless peons. That is the point. Being civic-minded doesn't mean anything as far as identity goes. And first nations are drunks, thieves,welfare cheats, adulterers and rapers of the lands, not to mention rapers of the canuck taxpayors pocket all the while holding drunken sitins to deny the rest of the Canadians who pay for land services and uses......while of course wearing balaclavas so they cant be identified , such a noble cause, why one would have to be drunk to come up wi.....oh wait, they are. Every last lazy one of the buggers. Ouch, bet you dont like that characterization now do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) You wouldnt admit a rock is hurtling at your head even while it splits it open.Multicult and biling does make us at least somewhat unique. Europe has those things do they? If you exclude the microtiny nations ,(Andorra, Lichtenstein,Monacco) no they do not. Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Belgium, Russia, Greece, Portugal, Slovenia and the United Kingdom all have betw 5 and 10% Austria (15%), Ukraine (15%), Croatia (15%), Ireland (14%), Moldova (13%), Germany (12%), Sweden (12%), Belarus (12%), Italy (11,9%),Spain (11%), France (10%) and the Netherlands (10%).[1] Canada 20% ...so much for your thoughts. Lets not forget that we do not have anti-immigrantion rallies the likes they have in the Netherlands, austria, France and Spain. Oh yes, we are so much similar Like France where they jail you indefintely should they wish? Riiight, just like us. It is a symbol of our country. We have lots of maple trees, and we love maple syrup and the Leafs. Show me a flag that shows others what the country is about? anyone will do. You dont like it? Fine, but that is hardly reason to slag it, since of course you live with the freedoms that come with it. And first nations are drunks, thieves,welfare cheats, adulterers and rapers of the lands, not to mention rapers of the canuck taxpayors pocket all the while holding drunken sitins to deny the rest of the Canadians who pay for land services and uses......while of course wearing balaclavas so they cant be identified , such a noble cause, why one would have to be drunk to come up wi.....oh wait, they are. Every last lazy one of the buggers. Ouch, bet you dont like that characterization now do you? Canadians are drunks, thieves, welfare cheats and rapers of land not to mention rapers of the the canuck taxpayers pocket all the while holding sit ins to deny the rest of Canadians who pay for land services and uses.....while of course wearing balaclavas so they can;t be identified, such a noble cause, why one would have to be drunk to come up wi.....oh wait they are. Every lazy one of the buggers. Ouch, I bet you didn't like that characterization now do you? Aside from the terrible grammar, lousy spelling, incomplete sentences, and disjointed thoughts, I fixed it for you. Maple syrup is a First Nations invention and cultural identifier. The flag is a rag. The Stars and Stripes on the other hand say a lot about Americans. It says about their different roots, their struggle to become a conjoined nation, the pride and perseverance of duty and honour. The Canadian Maple Leaf? It represents a palm sized leaf that is good for wiping one's ass when in the wilderness. The Make Beliefs Hockey team? pffffff! Hilariously incompetent. So let's talk about culture. How about you name 10 cultural icons that belong to all Canadians and identifies our unique cultural status in the world? Keep in mind that your list cannot include stolen icons or ones...like poutine... that belong to a sub-culture of Canada, ones that have been imported such as British fish and chips, or ones are really civic identifiers and not at all related to culture and tradition, like Alexander, Graham Bell's invention of the telephone...which is not culture at all. Edited March 4, 2009 by charter.rights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) Bilingual and multilingual countries: Official and Spoken Languages of European Countries Official and Spoken Languages of Countries in Asia and the Middle East Official and Spoken Languages of the Countries of the Americas and the Caribbean Official and Spoken Languages of Australia and the Pacifics Official and Spoken Languages of African Countries Maybe you'll reconsider your denial.....As well the language of commerce is generally English so while it may not be a culturally identified language, English is still spoken in many of those same countries by the business sectors. Being bilingual or multilingual is really nothing special. Edited March 4, 2009 by charter.rights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Bilingual and multilingual countries:Official and Spoken Languages of European Countries Official and Spoken Languages of Countries in Asia and the Middle East Official and Spoken Languages of the Countries of the Americas and the Caribbean Official and Spoken Languages of Australia and the Pacifics Official and Spoken Languages of African Countries Maybe you'll reconsider your denial.....As well the language of commerce is generally English so while it may not be a culturally identified language, English is still spoken in many of those same countries by the business sectors. Being bilingual or multilingual is really nothing special. So what you are saying is that the vast majority of peoples live in nations with only one official language.....good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 So what you are saying is that the vast majority of peoples live in nations with only one official language.....good point. Bilingualism and multilingualism isn't "official". In the majority of cases the country is bilingual as a reflection of their cultural heritage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Bilingualism and multilingualism isn't "official". It is in Cananda and a very small number of other countries. Thanks for coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 While you may think this makes you sound like you know what you are talking about, in reality all you are doing is repeating the myths that Canadians believe about themselves. Canadian cultural icons, traditions and cultural beliefs do not exist as a Canadian identity of what is Canadian. They exist, as does the emotional attachment many Canadians have for them, notwithstanding your dislike of them for not being "inclusive" enough. And while English Canadians like to boast that we are part of the British colonial experience, we are as far removed from it as India is from their colonizers. India? Where so many of their traditions now derive from their colonial days? Where all the top people still speak English and sip tea while watching cricket, and their soldiers dress and behave the way the British taught them to a century gone? It's true that we are further from our colonial days than the Indians, for having had succesive governments determined to erase every sign of it in frantic efforts at pleasing Francophones, but those of us who are a bit older still remember them. When you come up with some ideas on what you think makes us unique as Canadians maybe we can discuss it further. Unique? What is unique about being a Frenchman or a Spaniard? There is nothing unique in the world. There is merely the shared cultural traditions passed down from our forefathers. Again, it's true that succesive federal governments have been determined to erase all of these, and done a good job of it. Very few younger Canadians, even those born and raised here, have any connection or feelings with or about those who built and shaped this country. Most don't even know anything about Canada's history - because liberals and socialists thought that immigrants wouldn't be comfortable hearing about such things. We teach African history to black students. THAT'S okay. But we don't teach much about Canada's history or traditions. So people like you shrug and say Canada is nothing but a shopping mall, with nothing special about anyone who lives here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 There are many things that we identify with as Canadians, the least of which being our brand of multiculturalism, bilingualism and our rights and freedoms. You can argue about the uniqueness of those things, but they are what has been used to create a civic nation for everyone from coast to coast to identify with. That's not to mention the symbols that we identify with: the national anthem, the maple leaf, etc. Regardless, those things are vastly different than a single ethnic unity. We are not a homogeneous ethnic nation, so the state needs to construct a civic identity. Such things are not constructed by governments, but by history. The Americans certainly have it. The federal government - principally the Liberals - has done its best to destroy all vestiges of our past in order to recreate this "civic identify" of yours, and did a piss-poor job of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Most Quebecers want to be Canadians. Recent pools put separation at under 40% support. That's 40% overall. Eliminate the anglos and immigrants and you're coming close to a majority of Quebecois who want out. And remember that polls taken after the last referendum showed that more than half of thsoe who voted "no" did so out of economic fears, not any love of Canada. In other words, they'd have voted to seperate too if they weren't worried about how the bills would be paid without Alberta and Ontario any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I kind of figured you could not, and would not refute anything I said, and why, look at this Aside from the terrible grammar, lousy spelling, incomplete sentences, and disjointed thoughts, I fixed it for you. Too funny. The Stars and Stripes on the other hand say a lot about Americans. It says about their different roots, their struggle to become a conjoined nation, the pride and perseverance of duty and honour. Such divine ignorance. Different roots, conjoined nation, duty and honour. Ha, you funny guy. You can get all that from the stars and bars can you? Considering the Yanks arent even sure who designed the flag, what makes you think you can figure it out. I understand you are upset, getting schooled, and badly at that, so I wont pile on. But it is fun to watch you get schooled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Some things about me which make me feel Canadian (but not necessarily unique to Canada) In no particular order Xmas Eve Tortierre Toques Beer Winter Summer Anglais French John Allan Cameron Hockey Sandy MacIntyre The Laurentians in spring, summer and fall Morin Heights Mount Royal Smoked Meat Montreal Bagels Black Watch (RHR) Globe and Mail King of Kensington Razzle Dazzle Johnny Jelly Bean Montreal Jazz Festival Just for laughs Taste of the Danforth Mary Margaret O'hara Marcus O'Hara Italian-Jewish Weddings Carribean-Jewish Weddings Jewish Weddings Irish-Greek Weddings Gay Weddings Rhino Party Bread Pudding TVO Fridays Rye Vinegar on fries The Ex The FN C1 ....and 1000s more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) That's 40% overall. Eliminate the anglos and immigrants and you're coming close to a majority of Quebecois who want out. The last polls showed that a majority of Quebecois did not want out. Quebec doesn't want to leave and it never did. Support for Quebec leaving gets to less and less every day. There's no reason to believe that in the future it won't return to less than 25% (where it was before the sponsorship scandal. Oh, and why should you eliminate anglos and immigrants anyway? They aren't any less important and their vote doesn't count any less. Nice article dealing with the subject of Quebec Separatism: http://blog.macleans.ca/2009/02/25/quebec-...rench-kiss-off/ Edited March 4, 2009 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froro Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Things that make me feel Canadian (but are not necessarily Unique to Canada either) Self Depreciating sense of humour The Mounties The Rocky Mountains The Praries Both Coastal lines Maple syrup, maple cookies, maple butter, anything maple. Whilst one poster claims it's nothing more than a leaf to wipe his/her ass with, it means so much more to me. It is a symbol of a strong tree, ever growing and changing representing the evolving culture within and across Canada. the Beaver (yup it's just an animal but who cares) Bison (same thing applies) Moose and Caribou. Canadian Television (whether you watch it or not, government mandated or not, I love watching OUR stories, and OUR cities not pretending to be American cities on our airwaves...besides there are some fabulous Canadian shows) The War of 1812 Our honoured Soldiers from WW1, WW11 and all other wars. Canadian History Channel Advances in medical research over our history Pride in our natural resources Tortierre indeed!!! Buttertarts Hockey...yes hockey, it's become part of the national psyche This list is not exhaustive. The fact that my heritage includes, Polish, Welsh, French, Lebanese, Italian, my kids have Danish heritage included and it's perfectly normal to say when asked our cultural background to say "Canadian". (Try getting a teacher to accept that on their cultural history assignments though....everyone is so bent on labelling them as "from somewhere else". You know what? My family has been in Canada for 5 generations, can't we just call ourselves Canadian yet? Why does a culture have to be defined to be legitimate? There is so much more to being Canadian than just not "being American". I've never understood why we need a definitive label to understand what it means to be Canadian. I am not an immigrant, nor were my parents, or most of my grandparents for that matter, I am Canadian, why is this such a difficult concept to grasp? My mother in law is an immigrant but does not define herself as Danish, she defines herself as Canadian. I am proud of our flag, our country, and our traditions. Those traditions can be different for everyone which is what makes them even more Canadian. There is nothing wrong of being proud to be Canadian even in the absence of any definition thereof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 .... There is nothing wrong of being proud to be Canadian even in the absence of any definition thereof. Well done....you only mentioned the Americans twice. That's much better than usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Well done....you only mentioned the Americans twice. That's much better than usual. pffft....my list omitted America completely....and not even a not bad from ya... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 pffft....my list omitted America completely....and not even a not bad from ya... That's the idea.....no Americans required at all. Congratulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froro Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 That's the idea.....no Americans required at all. Congratulations. Whether we like it or not those south of the 49th parallel aren't going anywhere and do have influence over our culture, just as all of cultures of my ancestors have had on my interpretation of my own Canadian identity. PS. If no Americans are required at all why are they your username??? (or are you a resident of the country that shall not be named) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Whether we like it or not those south of the 49th parallel aren't going anywhere and do have influence over our culture, just as all of cultures of my ancestors have had on my interpretation of my own Canadian identity. So what? Would you be less of a "Canadian" if the Americans never existed? The longstanding point is to not define "Canadian" using Americans or anybody else for that matter as a foil. Being what "they" are not defines attributes in terms of others. PS. If no Americans are required at all why are they your username??? (or are you a resident of the country that shall not be named) Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froro Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 So what? Would you be less of a "Canadian" if the Americans never existed? The longstanding point is to not define "Canadian" using Americans or anybody else for that matter as a foil. Being what "they" are not defines attributes in terms of others. No, I would not be any less Canadian but how we have evolved as a country and a culture would be different. Asking that question would be akin to asking me if one of my ancestors was not Polish would I be any less Canadian. The fact that I like Pierogy does not make me any more or less Canadian, it simply a tiny part of what has led to the evolution of what it means to me to be Canadian. The question you pose is silly in it's premise completely. You may as well ask, would I be any less Canadian if we hadn't been founded by both Britain and France? You can not ignore the influences of the cultures that surround you. All of those influences are what makes me uniquely Canadian. What I said originally was: There is more about being Canadian than being defined as "not American", which is a longstanding theme here, and a personal bone of contention for me. I didn't say I defined myself as anything other than Canadian. I get annoyed when my children's teachers insist we choose a country from our ancestry for their heritage projects. They are never allowed to use Canada as their cultural history, only a country that has zero relevance in our lives today (other than some great food, and DNA). I actually got into a large arguement this year with my son's gr. 2 teacher because he based his project on being Canadian. I had to fight with the teacher and eventually go to the principal over a silly little project because he wasn't allowed to pick "Canadian" as a cultural background. He was going to get a failing grade because being Canadian didn't count. How insane is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froro Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 The Point I think I'm trying to make is that by embracing all of those influences around us (good or bad) has defined us in a sense and is what makes us uniquely Canadian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Some things about me which make me feel Canadian (but not necessarily unique to Canada)In no particular order Xmas Eve Tortierre Toques Beer Winter... ...and 1000s more Oh, c'mon people! It's gonna come as no surprise that it's me saying this, but: The monarchy! Jeez... our Queen's face is only on every coin in our pockets (except those few stray Yank ones!), on all those $20s, her coat of arms is on every $ bill; there's probably a crown on your local police force's badge, or your military badge - should you be a member of Her Majesty's Armed Forces, or the Royal Canadian (Air, Army, or Sea) Cadets, or are one of those officers who've received Her Majesty's Commission; there's the Courts of Queen's Bench, Queen's Counsel, the Queen in the Oath of Citizenship, the Queen Elizabeth Way and the Queen Elizabeth II Highway, the Place Reine Elisabeth, the Queen Elizabeth Bulding at the CNE; the Royal Canadian Yacht Club, the Royal Military College and the Collège militaire royal de Saint-Jean, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and the Royal 22e Régiment (the Vandoos); etc., etc., etc., etc... We may have inherited the institution from another country, and now share it with other countries, but we've had it for 500 years, and, within our borders, we've made it uniquely ours. I also find that there's something about vast, unpopulated landscapes that's very Canadian: tundra, Canadian Shield, the Rockies, the Labrador coast, the prairies. I know countries like Russia, Australia, and maybe Brazil have a similar low person to km2 ratio, but, I can say that in Australia, the landscapes are vast, but look much, much different, and I imagine its the same for Brazil. I don't know about Russia, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) Things that make me feel Canadian (but are not necessarily Unique to Canada either)Self Depreciating sense of humour The Mounties The Rocky Mountains The Praries Both Coastal lines Maple syrup, maple cookies, maple butter, anything maple. Whilst one poster claims it's nothing more than a leaf to wipe his/her ass with, it means so much more to me. It is a symbol of a strong tree, ever growing and changing representing the evolving culture within and across Canada. the Beaver (yup it's just an animal but who cares) Bison (same thing applies) Moose and Caribou. Canadian Television (whether you watch it or not, government mandated or not, I love watching OUR stories, and OUR cities not pretending to be American cities on our airwaves...besides there are some fabulous Canadian shows) The War of 1812 Our honoured Soldiers from WW1, WW11 and all other wars. Canadian History Channel Advances in medical research over our history Pride in our natural resources Tortierre indeed!!! Buttertarts Hockey...yes hockey, it's become part of the national psyche This list is not exhaustive. You left out envy of the U.S. masquerading as cultural superiority to the U.S. I am proud of our flag, our country, and our traditions.Those traditions can be different for everyone which is what makes them even more Canadian. There is nothing wrong of being proud to be Canadian even in the absence of any definition thereof. I totally agree with you on that. Edited March 7, 2009 by jbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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