Robert Dziekanski

[blueblood]

Compared to what, batons, pepper spray, how about net-guns or interpreters?

From what we saw, there is no reason to assume that these officers could tie their own shoes.

Why the hell should somebody get hurt just because they need to take time to bring in an interpreter. He bloody knew that those four were cops and decided to resist. Net guns is a stupid idea because the perp can still roll around in the net and potentially cause injury to the police officer, but then again you hate police officers so you'd probably like to see them get injured.

From what we saw, they made the right call and nobody else got hurt. The death was an accident. All the perp had to do when four men in uniform show up is get on the ground.

[blueblood]

I see, Robert Dziekanski's a perp is he? He was also a lazy drunk I hear.

At least Rodney King lived.

You screw around like that at the airport, you become a perp.

Rodney King didn't have a choice to surrender either.

[Oleg Bach]

I see, Robert Dziekanski's a perp is he? He was also a lazy drunk I hear.

At least Rodney King lived.

Oh I see - he was expendable and execution by cop is just fine? Lazy? - guess he never worked on the assembly line of that company you have shares in - did not generate you a profit perhaps --- that's worthy of an execution......Drunk? - that tops it - so he gets all juiced up on some nice Canadian Club - a company that you perhaps have shares in also - and for Rodney King haveing a wonderful life...and living..I really don't understand what that means - Is it like not feeling bad for killing a free range chicken because it lived..and the poor factroy bird was just a lazy confined Polish alcohoic.

[roof_top_eagle]

The spoiled and delicate elite must be weak and powerless when it comes to self defense and mutual combat..It sickens me when arm chair critics sit and discuss how to cattle prod those that they needlessly fear. Stick these milk sops into a poor and tough black American neighbourhood and let them learn the ropes of how to get along and how to make friends - and maybe take care of themselves if ever attacked. BUT if there are any men amongst this satin underwear wearing bunch - they should use the power of the mind and character to ward off and defuse violence...instead they hire idots who they expect to shoot - jail - spray - end now electorcute what they feel is a threat - part of this need to control and abuse those in lower socio-ecomomic spheres is boredom that generates sadism - the killing of this poor dumb Pole was sadistic - and the tormenting sissies justify it by saying - what if the poor police officer gets a bruise? The advocates of tazering do not care for the victim nor do they really care for the cops - who are also considered lowly workers.

While I agree it's easy for us to sit here and criticize I do think calling us the delicate elite is a little off base, you don't know us. I do agree with the statement you made about the officers getting a bruise to some extent. Four RCMP officers should be able to control a guy with a stapler for crying out loud!

The tazer is overkill in this situation. In my opinion signing up for the RCMP or any police force is accepting the fact that you might get roughed up a bit on a day to day basis. The tazer was a good tool but it is being misused all the time.

Of course it's not like police aren't clearly distinguishable in public, Dziekanski should have been able to know that they wanted him in a pair of cuffs. In this situation it would have been smart to surrender and work it out later with an interpreter.

I still think there are better cases of misuse of a tazer to use for a inquiry into their use than some guy who contributed nothing to Canada's economy or anything. I think someone posted some links above that show gross misuse of the taser.

One thing with me is I'm sick of police officers getting paid leave when they mess up or something has to be looked into. This is basically a paid suspension, if I get suspended from work I don't earn a dime so why do these guys? They get paid well and paid leave and if they are allowed back on the beat after this they will have to go through training again, yet another taxpayer expense. This is why I say either let them work or fire them don't pay them to sit at home and watch TSN. The rest of the country's citizens don't get paid when they don't work so why are the police so different?

[Oleg Bach]

Calling "us" the elite - you don't know "us"....no real elite in any area is vain enough to refere to themselves as elite. Doing so makes you very un-elite. Look across at the horizon and see that the elite in these times are not elite. If they were we would not have the social and ecomomic turmoil that we see.

A sophisticated wise human being such as myself knows one thing when dealing with police - submit - respect - and never even consider offending these servants verbally or physically - and you do not have a problem..You do not stick your hand in a barking dogs mouth - you stroke the dog into sweet repose. Dziekanskis problem was that he was feeling sorry for himself - he was like a tantrumed child - but because he was in strong mans body the cowrards killed him.

[Argus]

I see, Robert Dziekanski's a perp is he? He was also a lazy drunk I hear.

At least Rodney King lived.

I think the RCMP overreacted. He was clearly unarmed - in that area - and they should have handled him physically.

But let's not excuse this guy's behaviour. He was ranting and raving and throwing furniture around and refusing orders from guys who very clearly were cops. He was acting like a total nutjob, and if he'd done what he was clearly instructed to do, he'd be alive today.

[Argus]

You screw around like that at the airport, you become a perp.

Rodney King didn't have a choice to surrender either.

King had plenty of chances to surrender. He chose not to.

And as Chris Rock says "everyone knows that if the police have gotta come get you, they're bringing an ass-whooping with em"

[Oleg Bach]

I think the RCMP overreacted. He was clearly unarmed - in that area - and they should have handled him physically.

But let's not excuse this guy's behaviour. He was ranting and raving and throwing furniture around and refusing orders from guys who very clearly were cops. He was acting like a total nutjob, and if he'd done what he was clearly instructed to do, he'd be alive today.

Just because this child was in an adult body - and behaved like a tantrumish child is no reason fear him...If there was one intelligent and perceptive cop at the scene he would not have been tazered and killed. When police were of a higher genetic level - say like the traditional big Scottish guys that were the standard - they were wise men who could see what was actually happening to a person and could size up quickly what the hell was going on ---These cops are inferiours and behaved in a wolve pack manner mixed with a bit of human robotics ----we need better cops...Why do we think that peace officers and law enforcers can be stupid and do the job....I will tell you why...IT IS BECAUSE YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY THINK THAT THOSE WHO BECOME POLICE DO IT BECAUSE THEY ARE TO STUPID TO BE ANYTHING ELSE....at this point in time you are correct....You need perhaps encourage one of your own sons and daughter to enter into the peace keeping service - and they would make good cops ----but that is below you is it not?

[madmax]

However I stand by the side of the RCMP officers, I mean if you don't speak english do you think it could be handy to learn some before coming to CANADA! I mean what do you think we speak here, German?

So you think that ALL travellers in an Airport in Canada must know english??? Therefore I would expect that all travellers to Cuba learn Spanish. All Travellers to France Learn French. IF you want to travel to Germany, learn German, cross over to Poland, learn Polish, then off to Russia, where we learn Russian.

Ofcourse if you want to go to Australia, best you learn Australian slang.

Such logic will boost tourism and travel everywhere.

While I should learn French, I just haven't and that doesn't stop me from travelling through Quebec, or New Brunswick.

If I am travelling through Quebec, I hope I don't get tasered to death.

Heaven forbid, someone come to an airport that is unable to speak, let alone speak english, or cannot understand english because they are deaf. Let no person be confused in an airport because they will be tasered and possibly die.

I travelled much of Europe, and never spoke the language of any of the countries I went to, including the UK.

Many people who travel through airports become disoriented, regardless of their first language. Paid professionals should not allow their guests and new arrivals to be tasered to death. Its good business.

[eyeball]

I think the RCMP overreacted. He was clearly unarmed - in that area - and they should have handled him physically.

But let's not excuse this guy's behaviour. He was ranting and raving and throwing furniture around and refusing orders from guys who very clearly were cops. He was acting like a total nutjob, and if he'd done what he was clearly instructed to do, he'd be alive today.

It sure looked to me like he was complying and in the process of putting his hands up when they Tasered him. I get a definite sense of resignation in Dziekanski's body language, especially in the way he threw his arms up moments before they let him have it. He's clearly throwing his arms up and flinging his head down in a classic "okay, I'll give up" gesture. Those cops were supposed to be proffesionals that are trained to recognize exactly these sorts of things. They not only missed that they just let him die without so much as lifting a finger to take a pulse or check his breathing. According to testimony given at the inquiry the cops wouldn't let anyone else do this either until it was too late.

There is no excusing the behaviour of these police. They f^*ked up in every way possible and I think the reflex to defend them reflects a generalized desire to see police being seen as cracking down and getting tough on 'perps'. This is reminiscent of the sort of excited support I recall some kids would demonstrate whenever someone was getting a beating in a school-yard. There were always a few who would cheer and throw in a couple of good old fashioned 'hit em again' comments for good measure. Some would even try to get in a few kicks if they could. Recall the way wulf 24 seemed to be creaming his jeans when Israel was throwing its weight around in Gaza. Some people just couldn't get enough of it. Its sick

I acknowledge that you're cutting Dzeikanski a little slack here Argus but I'm alarmed at just how quick many are to suggest that police be given even freer reign to wield their authority. Its downright chilling and depressing to see so many people willingly frog-marching our society towards a state that's characterized by fear and an unquestioning uncritical faith in the infallibility of police and state authority. We're going to see the same thing happen in response to the "gang wars" in BC, an over-the-top-reaction that contributes to the further development of what sociologists call a risk society. A society that is characterized by unreasoning fear and preoccupation with safety. The loss of civil liberties in response to 9/11 is a good example of where this will lead us.

[Oleg Bach]

A big oaff taken down by a bunch of simpltons - there is no excuse - we need better quality police officers... There are two schools of thought in the regards of what the function of law enforcement should be --- The first - peace keepers (remember the lost term "Peace Officer" ? .... Then there is the type that is displayed here that some wish to preserve - The ENFORCER...A servant who's primary use is to enforce property law....to ensure that those of privledge and wealth don't have to fear big harmless oaffs....Maybe the reason why some agree with the killing is that the big Pole tossed a chair --- and maybe we have members here who may indirectly own that now broken chair....I say killing a guy for tossing a chair is warrented --- how dare he?

[blueblood]

So you think that ALL travellers in an Airport in Canada must know english??? Therefore I would expect that all travellers to Cuba learn Spanish. All Travellers to France Learn French. IF you want to travel to Germany, learn German, cross over to Poland, learn Polish, then off to Russia, where we learn Russian.

Ofcourse if you want to go to Australia, best you learn Australian slang.

Such logic will boost tourism and travel everywhere.

While I should learn French, I just haven't and that doesn't stop me from travelling through Quebec, or New Brunswick.

If I am travelling through Quebec, I hope I don't get tasered to death.

Heaven forbid, someone come to an airport that is unable to speak, let alone speak english, or cannot understand english because they are deaf. Let no person be confused in an airport because they will be tasered and possibly die.

I travelled much of Europe, and never spoke the language of any of the countries I went to, including the UK.

Many people who travel through airports become disoriented, regardless of their first language. Paid professionals should not allow their guests and new arrivals to be tasered to death. Its good business.

And during your travels have you acted like a maroon in the airport and attempted to attack uniformed security/police with a blunt object?

[blueblood]

King had plenty of chances to surrender. He chose not to.

And as Chris Rock says "everyone knows that if the police have gotta come get you, they're bringing an ass-whooping with em"

In this case it was an extremely efficient ass whooping. Let this be a lesson, he who attacks uniformed police officers with a blunt object gets lit up.

[blueblood]

It sure looked to me like he was complying and in the process of putting his hands up when they Tasered him. I get a definite sense of resignation in Dziekanski's body language, especially in the way he threw his arms up moments before they let him have it. He's clearly throwing his arms up and flinging his head down in a classic "okay, I'll give up" gesture. Those cops were supposed to be proffesionals that are trained to recognize exactly these sorts of things. They not only missed that they just let him die without so much as lifting a finger to take a pulse or check his breathing. According to testimony given at the inquiry the cops wouldn't let anyone else do this either until it was too late.

There is no excusing the behaviour of these police. They f^*ked up in every way possible and I think the reflex to defend them reflects a generalized desire to see police being seen as cracking down and getting tough on 'perps'. This is reminiscent of the sort of excited support I recall some kids would demonstrate whenever someone was getting a beating in a school-yard. There were always a few who would cheer and throw in a couple of good old fashioned 'hit em again' comments for good measure. Some would even try to get in a few kicks if they could. Recall the way wulf 24 seemed to be creaming his jeans when Israel was throwing its weight around in Gaza. Some people just couldn't get enough of it. Its sick

I acknowledge that you're cutting Dzeikanski a little slack here Argus but I'm alarmed at just how quick many are to suggest that police be given even freer reign to wield their authority. Its downright chilling and depressing to see so many people willingly frog-marching our society towards a state that's characterized by fear and an unquestioning uncritical faith in the infallibility of police and state authority. We're going to see the same thing happen in response to the "gang wars" in BC, an over-the-top-reaction that contributes to the further development of what sociologists call a risk society. A society that is characterized by unreasoning fear and preoccupation with safety. The loss of civil liberties in response to 9/11 is a good example of where this will lead us.

And I suppose you think the Hells Angels would be a much better security force for this country...

[Oleg Bach]

And I suppose you think the Hells Angels would be a much better security force for this country...

Do I hear a scratch copy of Sympathy For The Devil playing in the back ground? -------- Tazers are cattle prods - we are not animals - either shoot them or let them live...I will never forget the clip of a few cops Tazering a man - he is clearly foaming at the mouth and shaking like a poorly shot deer...and the sadistic fat butted female cop yells ----Hit him again...wonderful ---- With Hells Angels - they would have to just make their presense known and peace results. Just don't say the wrong thing to one of them - or look at him funny--- or they will tazer you with an iron bar...no wires attatched other than the one around your ankles and the cinder block.

[roof_top_eagle]

Given the cops complete absence of any basic first aid following their actions I think they should be dishonourably discharged and possibly even jailed for criminal negligence.

Um? Dishonorably discharged? These aren't war crimes! Jailed? Hardly, the taser is an approved weapon. The officers in my opinion are only responsible for their actions. The problem is that the taser doesn't have proper protocol for it's use. Guns aren't used to subdue a person nor are they used to gain control of a situation without a firearm being involved on the side of the perp. The glock on their hips have proper protocol that must be followed before it is used. From what I understand there is none of this in place for the taser. These policemen are victims of a flawed system.

Look at this, we're saying they should be fired, jailed and who knows what else is being thought in secret.

You say these officers should be jailed for criminal negligence, they weren't negligent, the RCMP call the taser a "safe" weapon. That alone implies that they weren't negligent. Maybe the RCMP is negligent but not the officers. No one can see what is going on in a guys heart when he is being tasered, I can guess but that is not a scientific or medical guess. These four guys knew nothing more than the hundreds of thousands of other deployments of tasers in the world that didn't end in death.

[roof_top_eagle]

I think the RCMP overreacted. He was clearly unarmed - in that area - and they should have handled him physically.

But let's not excuse this guy's behaviour. He was ranting and raving and throwing furniture around and refusing orders from guys who very clearly were cops. He was acting like a total nutjob, and if he'd done what he was clearly instructed to do, he'd be alive today.

Agreed

[scorpio]

Let this be a lesson, he who attacks uniformed police officers with a blunt object gets lit up.

Musta missed the actual "attack." But those staples sure hurt when they land don't they?

[Oleg Bach]

Musta missed the actual "attack." But those staples sure hurt when they land don't they?

Blue blood has power issues...a bit to gleeful for my liking.

[blueblood]

Musta missed the actual "attack." But those staples sure hurt when they land don't they?

Step 1: Place hand flattly on desk

Step 2: Take stapler

Step 3: Whack hand flattly on desk as hard as you can

Step 4: Share results.

[roof_top_eagle]

So you think that ALL travellers in an Airport in Canada must know english??? Therefore I would expect that all travellers to Cuba learn Spanish. All Travellers to France Learn French. IF you want to travel to Germany, learn German, cross over to Poland, learn Polish, then off to Russia, where we learn Russian.

Ofcourse if you want to go to Australia, best you learn Australian slang.

Such logic will boost tourism and travel everywhere.

While I should learn French, I just haven't and that doesn't stop me from travelling through Quebec, or New Brunswick.

If I am travelling through Quebec, I hope I don't get tasered to death.

Heaven forbid, someone come to an airport that is unable to speak, let alone speak english, or cannot understand english because they are deaf. Let no person be confused in an airport because they will be tasered and possibly die.

I travelled much of Europe, and never spoke the language of any of the countries I went to, including the UK.

Many people who travel through airports become disoriented, regardless of their first language. Paid professionals should not allow their guests and new arrivals to be tasered to death. Its good business.

I obviously wasn't clear enough. You don't need to know english, It's just a good idea to know a few words. Two things come to mind here though 1) his mother is a Canadian now, you'd think he knew the airport enough to be civil. He's been here before as I understand 2) You don't fight with cops! Yes the cops were a little dumb to taser the guy with 4 of them there but Dziekanski wasn't acting smart either. He's dead because he acted stupid, not because he didn't speak english.

[Oleg Bach]

Step 1: Place hand flattly on desk

Step 2: Take stapler

Step 3: Whack hand flattly on desk as hard as you can

Step 4: Share results.

Head line reads:

Officer injured after altercation with frustrated rube..all report say the rube was shocked to death...the officer is expected to recover..the injury was serious...it took doctors 2 seconds to remove the deadly staple that was imbeded almost on one hundreth of a centimeter into the leathery part of his right foot...

[blueblood]

Head line reads:

Officer injured after altercation with frustrated rube..all report say the rube was shocked to death...the officer is expected to recover..the injury was serious...it took doctors 2 seconds to remove the deadly staple that was imbeded almost on one hundreth of a centimeter into the leathery part of his right foot...

Scratch yet another cat, and take my stapler pain test.

[Oleg Bach]

Scratch yet another cat, and take my stapler pain test.

You might just get the prize for being the number one comedian on this form - Bush-Cheney will not be pleased for being ousted. What about the GM executive comment - I thought that was cute as a kitten.

[scorpio]

Head line reads:

Officer injured after altercation with frustrated rube..all report say the rube was shocked to death...the officer is expected to recover..the injury was serious...it took doctors 2 seconds to remove the deadly staple that was imbeded almost on one hundreth of a centimeter into the leathery part of his right foot...