What's next? Pension and health care refugees?

[Pat Coghlan]

I relative of mine - who has spent her entire life living (55+ years) and paying taxes in the US - just asked me about applying for Canadian citizenship. She said a 'lot' of people they know are doing this. Not only Canada, but Italy, New Zealand...I'd say G8. She also said that they're worried because their 401K has lost over 50% of its value, and is still falling.

Putting 2 and 2 together, clearly she - and others - are looking for a place to retire with more financial and health care security.

From what I've read, she can indeed apply. Her mother was a Canadian citizen, and since she is first-generation, a recent change to immigration policy will allow her to do exactly that.

[eyeball]

Corporations are allowed to flee to other countries so why shouldn't humans be given this opportunity as well? We're people too after all.

[madmax]

I relative of mine - who has spent her entire life living (55+ years) and paying taxes in the US - She also said that they're worried because their 401K has lost over 50% of its value,

You can always challenge the right of your relative to live in Canada. Did you tell her to take a hike? Is that what you want to do? THere is nothing to stop YOU from telling YOUR RELATIVE, to stay in the United States, your not welcome here. Let her know how you feel and that you feel it is not right.

Its your relative!!!

I bet she used to praise the US system, the Health Care, the 401K. Heck, I bet you praise those same systems. US Health Care, Pensions, etc. Tell her she has it good and to stay there, if that is how you feel.

Don't hedge. Pick up the phone, and give it to her.

[bush_cheney2004]

....I bet she used to praise the US system, the Health Care, the 401K. Heck, I bet you praise those same systems. US Health Care, Pensions, etc. Tell her she has it good and to stay there, if that is how you feel.

Yep, just like many Canadians who made the switch long before now.

[August1991]

Corporations are allowed to flee to other countries so why shouldn't humans be given this opportunity as well? We're people too after all.

Please explain to me how a corporation "flees to other countries". I can understand how shareholders, customers or employees can change countries but the idea of a corporation changing countries has me mystified.

----

Americans may have seen their 401K accounts lose value but then Canadians have also seen their RRSPs drop. As to pensions, US social security is more generous than CPP/QPP but then to collect them, you have to have paid in. Even in the case of OAP/GIS, there is a 10 year residency requirement before eligibility. For an older American without catastrophic health insurance, then Canada may offer a benefit. Then again, it might be a shock for an American to discover that most new Canadians do not have a family doctor.

Frankly, Canada's immigration system is such that it would be difficult or impossible for an older American to immigrate here unless this was done through marriage.

[capricorn]

I've seen the term "economic refugee" pop up in a few media articles. This is what Kenney, Minister of Immigration, had to say about it.

He also said his Department has made plans to cope with any influx of economic refugees, which can "gum up" the system as people who face actual violent persecution try to get into the country.

Canada has a precise definition of a refugee: it must be someone who has a well-founded fear of persecution based on their race, religion, political opinion, sexual orientation, nationality or membership in a particular social group.

"I do intend to look at ways that we can reform our so-called in-country refugee system," he said. "We want to make sure people don't come here and try to jump the queue. They have to wait to come in as legal economic immigrants."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

If people are suffering in their countries of origin because of domestic economic problems and want in, let them queue up with the other applicants for immigration to Canada.

[Oleg Bach]

All immigrants (refugees) are economic - do you think they come here because they love us?

[capricorn]

Oleg, it seems to me the point is that being poor in one's country of origin, on its own, does not qualify one as being a refugee. Immigrants and refugees are different in the eyes of Canadian law and regulations.

[Oleg Bach]

Oleg, it seems to me the point is that being poor in one's country of origin, on its own, does not qualify one as being a refugee. Immigrants and refugees are different in the eyes of Canadian law and regulations.

One way or another - whether it was the first wave of Asians bring tons of money out of Tiawan - or those with nothing - they all want more - my point was not important - just a point.. I do not see them here for any reason but the fact that we are opportunity - to bad our own did not realize that.

[eyeball]

Please explain to me how a corporation "flees to other countries". I can understand how shareholders, customers or employees can change countries but the idea of a corporation changing countries has me mystified.

They change countries to escape our onerous environmental regulations and the impact that our high standards for human rights have on their bottom lines.

[Oleg Bach]

They change countries to escape our onerous environmental regulations and the impact that our high standards for human rights have on their bottom lines.

Call up the guys in China or Africa or where ever and cut a deal - can you supply a worker for 2 dollars a day - I am getting tired of making 2 billion a year and paying 20 bucks an hour - I want 10 billion a year - Can you accomidate me...then they set up the office - good buy Canada and f you workers.

[msj]

They change countries to escape our onerous environmental regulations and the impact that our high standards for human rights have on their bottom lines.

Corporations (or, more importantly, capital) flees jurisdictions for many reasons - environmental, regulatory, demographic, political, economic etc....

I have some clients who moved from Alberta to BC and they brought their corporations with them (even did legal transitions to the BC Corporation Act).

I would put that under the demographic reason - they moved here to eventually retire and they brought their companies because that's how they make their dough.

All it really means is that they pay slightly higher taxes in BC as compared to Alberta (but they assure me anything is better than living in the "@$$hole of the world" - whatever that means - I've only been to Calgary and it was nice enough for other people to live in).

[Oleg Bach]

Corporations (or, more importantly, capital) flees jurisdictions for many reasons - environmental, regulatory, demographic, political, economic etc....

I have some clients who moved from Alberta to BC and they brought their corporations with them (even did legal transitions to the BC Corporation Act).

I would put that under the demographic reason - they moved here to eventually retire and they brought their companies because that's how they make their dough.

All it really means is that they pay slightly higher taxes in BC as compared to Alberta (but they assure me anything is better than living in the "@$$hole of the world" - whatever that means - I've only been to Calgary and it was nice enough for other people to live in).

Give a typcoon truth serum and ask "What would you like to pay the workers if you could?" - They would say "I would like to pay them nothing if I could```` A mentality develops with some high flyers who will drink scotch and brag ---- I got it for nothing - this makes them feel like bad asses - I swear if some of the worlds elite are indirectly involved in the opium trade that the squable with the Taliban is about one up man's ship --- The don't want cheaper opium prices - they want it for nothing...all money from legit and illegitimate sources works it's way into the banking system which is the corporate world - I actually believe our involvement in Afghanistan is about the dope trade and nothing else ----what do they have of value that we want that is worth something - dope of course.

[Argus]

Corporations are allowed to flee to other countries so why shouldn't humans be given this opportunity as well? We're people too after all.

I'm just curious here. Do you know anyone who pays taxes?

[Oleg Bach]

Corporations are allowed to flee to other countries so why shouldn't humans be given this opportunity as well? We're people too after all.

Corporations (Corpus) or body are actually companies that inherit the right to be a collective bio machine comprised of many many actual people but as a group they are not human - but contraditorally speaking suddenly a corporation has human rights-- that of an individual...so if they can move about freely as a collective human - then a singular human should be allowed the same opportunity.

[Oleg Bach]

Corporations (Corpus) or body are actually companies that inherit the right to be a collective bio machine comprised of many many actual people but as a group they are not human - but contraditorally speaking suddenly a corporation has human rights-- that of an individual...so if they can move about freely as a collective human - then a singular human should be allowed the same opportunity.

[Pat Coghlan]

You can always challenge the right of your relative to live in Canada. Did you tell her to take a hike? Is that what you want to do? THere is nothing to stop YOU from telling YOUR RELATIVE, to stay in the United States, your not welcome here. Let her know how you feel and that you feel it is not right.

Its your relative!!!

I bet she used to praise the US system, the Health Care, the 401K. Heck, I bet you praise those same systems. US Health Care, Pensions, etc. Tell her she has it good and to stay there, if that is how you feel.

Don't hedge. Pick up the phone, and give it to her.

Well, she pretty much stayed at home her whole life and raised 3 sons (lawyer, neurologist and chemist PhD) on her husband's salary which I'm sure was always fairly low (accountant in a small firm).

What I praise about the US system is the way they tax families, i.e., where total income and number of dependents is the same, tax liability is the same.

[jdobbin]

I relative of mine - who has spent her entire life living (55+ years) and paying taxes in the US - just asked me about applying for Canadian citizenship.

But why would they leave a joint tax return?

[Oleg Bach]

But why would they leave a joint tax return?

Let the 55 pluser come up here to die on Canadian soil...they can have my place and I will go south. More to life than the savings contained in a joint tax return...welcome....to the new old immigrant - and white also - great...maybe we can find the mature traveler a wife...he can use my OHIP card no problem - other immigrants share drivers permits and health coverage - It's Canada - come on in - everybody else is here! But he may get blocked being old and white.

[jdobbin]

Let the 55 pluser come up here to die on Canadian soil...they can have my place and I will go south.

What will you do down there? Own a plantation?

[blueblood]

Zing!!!

[eyeball]

I'm just curious here. Do you know anyone who pays taxes?

Do you know anyone who doesn't? What a curious question.

[Pat Coghlan]

But why would they leave a joint tax return?

Lack of income to split.