American Style Health Care

[KeyStone]

Here is a fascinating article on CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/02/05/ep.he...loss/index.html

Just read the first tip. They basically tell people not to get health tests done, because if they find something bad, you won't be able to get health care coverage at an affordable rate.

Can you imagine what that is like to suspect there is something wrong with you, but being afraid to find out, because it would mean that you have a pre-existing condition, and therefore, you would have to pay far more for coverage (if you can get it at all). That's messed up.

[guyser]

Just read the first tip. They basically tell people not to get health tests done, because if they find something bad, you won't be able to get health care coverage at an affordable rate.

That actually exists in Canada by the way....in the form of travel insurance. The rules are pretty strict.

[Topaz]

BY the time a person hits the late sixty's and on, the chance for cancer is greater and these people are usually on a fixed income and so when they do get cancer, they can't afford the new drugs to fight it unless they have a drug coverage from were they worked. It s sad to think some may die because they can't afford the drugs to fight it. I think here in Canada, we may see alot of US citizens applying to come here because of their unemployment and for out healthcare system coverage.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... I think here in Canada, we may see alot of US citizens applying to come here because of their unemployment and for out healthcare system coverage.

I think we've already seen lots of Canadian citizens going to the US for employment and health care.

[KeyStone]

I think we've already seen lots of Canadian citizens going to the US for employment and health care.

Sure, we have two different health care systems.

The US system is better for those that have money. They can get elite treatment, and jump the queue ahead of those without money.

The Canadian system is better for everyone else. Sure, there are a handful of arbitrary metrics that American health care supporters like to point to, to suggest that there system is better, but overall - for the actual results metrics - our system beats there's in pretty much every category.

A system that discourages people from getting tested to see if they are ill and need help is a broken system.

People may end up waiting for a year until they have better coverage before they get tested, and during that year, the illness may have progressed too far to become operable. And this is CNN giving advice to people, on the best way to use US healthcare.

As for jobs, sure - Canadians go to the US to take the best jobs away from them because the US education system is inadequate leaving massive holes that need to be plugged by foreigners. It's not as if Canadians are going down to the US to get jobs at the Dairy Queen.

[BigAl]

As for jobs, sure - Canadians go to the US to take the best jobs away from them because the US education system is inadequate leaving massive holes that need to be plugged by foreigners. It's not as if Canadians are going down to the US to get jobs at the Dairy Queen.

Quite so -- if we wanted to do something like that we could always go to Alberta and work for Tim Hortons!

[M.Dancer]

As for jobs, sure - Canadians go to the US to take the best jobs away from them because the US education system is inadequate leaving massive holes that need to be plugged by foreigners. It's not as if Canadians are going down to the US to get jobs at the Dairy Queen.

Now I have an explanation why there are so many foreign born professional here..

[bush_cheney2004]

Sure, we have two different health care systems.

The US system is better for those that have money. They can get elite treatment, and jump the queue ahead of those without money.

The US "system" already has a single payer component that dwarfs anything in Canada (Medicare / Medicaid), which includes lots of people "without money". Canadians with "money" also don't suffer in queue for Tommy Douglas patriotism. You already have Two Tier health care.

The Canadian system is better for everyone else. Sure, there are a handful of arbitrary metrics that American health care supporters like to point to, to suggest that there system is better, but overall - for the actual results metrics - our system beats there's in pretty much every category.

Then why do provinces send patients to use the excess capacity in the USA? Canadians of means who are tired of waiting also head south or overseas.

A system that discourages people from getting tested to see if they are ill and need help is a broken system.

People may end up waiting for a year until they have better coverage before they get tested, and during that year, the illness may have progressed too far to become operable. And this is CNN giving advice to people, on the best way to use US healthcare.

Anybody who takes advice from CNN deserves such an outcome. People don't die in Canada? Remarkable!

As for jobs, sure - Canadians go to the US to take the best jobs away from them because the US education system is inadequate leaving massive holes that need to be plugged by foreigners. It's not as if Canadians are going down to the US to get jobs at the Dairy Queen.

Nope...Dairy Queen is not a sponsor in the Great Green Card Lottery. But lots of other firms are, and some Canadians want their piece of the action.

[Oleg Bach]

A friend of mine worked for a company called Bankers Exceptance...years ago - they also ran a very swank private health clinic called "The King's Health Centre" - if you twisted your ankle playing golf or you wanted the best treatment available on the planet...you could go there - now there are other private clinics springing up like mushrooms. The Kings Health Centre did not thrive - it may have had something to to with my friends boss splitting for the states with a suitcase full of about 30 million in cash ----what an embarrassement to the system..He was out in two years...and I think his buddies who had a contract to dispose of toxic waste - who kept 6 mill and dumped the stuff into the lake (Toronto Water Supply) - are now operating in the states ----where they have the contract to keep the water supply going for a major city ---enjoy! What's that taste?

[guyser]

Then why do provinces send patients to use the excess capacity in the USA? Canadians of means who are tired of waiting also head south or overseas.

For the same reason Americans come north. Some things we do better, some things are done better in the US.

[Topaz]

I think we've already seen lots of Canadian citizens going to the US for employment and health care.

BC, The US healthcare is in the same boat as the Canadian is, when it comes to doctors and nurses. We all know that alot of the nurses and doctors in the US are Canadian and some of those are finding that it isn't greener on the other side. The US will be in shortage of Drs in the near future because of retirements, the HMO's control everything over there and a person may not get the treatment they need if it cost the HMO's too much, Great system!! I bet you would find more US citizens who rather come to Canada for healthcare then to have to pay for it out of their own pockets and they don't care how long the wait is.

[OddSox]

BC, The US healthcare is in the same boat as the Canadian is, when it comes to doctors and nurses. We all know that alot of the nurses and doctors in the US are Canadian and some of those are finding that it isn't greener on the other side. The US will be in shortage of Drs in the near future because of retirements, the HMO's control everything over there and a person may not get the treatment they need if it cost the HMO's too much, Great system!! I bet you would find more US citizens who rather come to Canada for healthcare then to have to pay for it out of their own pockets and they don't care how long the wait is.

There have been cases in Ontario where treatment and/or medication has been denied because it would cost OHIP too much. Great system!

[guyser]

There have been cases in Ontario where treatment and/or medication has been denied because it would cost OHIP too much. Great system!

Too much or that they dont normally cover it?

[Oleg Bach]

Too much or that they dont normally cover it?

Medications that actually heal the person perminently are denied the public under todays system - the really good stuff you have to pay for --- my mother in law - has a script that keeps her alive --- 2500 a month...those without money suffer. The main problem in the long run as for privatization of our system totally is the fact of life - That once medicine is in private hands with no public control - corruption sets in...Look at America ---Got cancer? Great! I will cure you but I get your damned home in return...I would say that's pretty brutal.

[OddSox]

Too much or that they dont normally cover it?

Either way, it's not "universal health care" no matter how they spin it.

[Oleg Bach]

There have been cases in Ontario where treatment and/or medication has been denied because it would cost OHIP too much. Great system!

Talk to the pharma people - where a pill that costs 50 cents to create sells for 20 dollars a pop. I don't want to hear about all the kazillions spent on research nor will it be useful to mention copyright or branding of pharma product. What preturbs me is I have a daughter with Crones disease - she suffers great pain and discomfort..She can buy the drugs that supposedly control the condition (with horrible side effects) - but she can not afford to acquire the right medication to aleviate the disease and symptons --- the garbage she is force to take still costs over a hundred dollars a pill bottle. Same can be said about medications used to treat sexually transmitted viral infections --- HPV - or commonly known as venerial warts .....Twenty years ago you could go get this medicine that was around for hundreds of years...and it would destroy the viral collective...gone! _ This medication was removed from the market and now they have silly creams that "control" the infection but never get rid of it - this causes the continued spead of the potentially cancer causing wart. GREAT SYSTEM!

[bush_cheney2004]

.... I bet you would find more US citizens who rather come to Canada for healthcare then to have to pay for it out of their own pockets and they don't care how long the wait is.

Why would they pick Canada when there are far superior examples of universal programs available elsewhere in the world ? Mandated rationing for designated medical procedures is unacceptable to Americans (and many Canadians) with the means to pay the costs, either with insurance or out-of-pocket.

Health care is not a right...not even in Canada.

[Oleg Bach]

Why would they pick Canada when there are far superior examples of universal programs available elsewhere in the world ? Mandated rationing for designated medical procedures is unacceptable to Americans (and many Canadians) with the means to pay the costs, either with insurance or out-of-pocket.

Health care is not a right...not even in Canada.

Canada is so full of it self. Time marches on and things go into a state of decay...our system reminds me of the bad side of town in some American city. Go to an urban emergency ward in most Canadian cities at 3 in the morning - You will think you are in some American movie......we are like little old ladies who actually still believe in a system long after it has disappeared ---- this is much like the idea of Canadian armed forces being the noble and respected peace keepers that could do no wrong - the age of innocence is over - we are tainted by the sheer increase of population and lost of national identity along with our atonomy that we gave up when we flooded our nation with strangers from strange places where a hospital consisted of a sink, dirty bed and a holey fly net. The world has changed and so has Canada - we are no longer the clean street - we are now the mean street - just like everybody else.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada is so full of it self. Time marches on and things go into a state of decay...our system reminds me of the bad side of town in some American city. Go to an urban emergency ward in most Canadian cities at 3 in the morning - You will think you are in some American movie......

You blaspheme Sir!

Canada's "system" must be better because it's not Amerikun.

[guyser]

Either way, it's not "universal health care" no matter how they spin it.

So, 'universal' , at least to you means everything?

Uh oh.

[OddSox]

So, 'universal' , at least to you means everything?

Uh oh.

If one person gets health care and someone else doesn't, it's not universal.

Someone said that the American system was horrible because 'HMO's won't pay for everything'. I simply pointed out that our system won't pay for everything either. In fact, our system comes nowhere near paying our total health care costs.

[guyser]

If one person gets health care and someone else doesn't, it's not universal.

True.

We have a 'Universal' health care system.

Someone said that the American system was horrible because 'HMO's won't pay for everything'. I simply pointed out that our system won't pay for everything either. In fact, our system comes nowhere near paying our total health care costs.

True again, but that has nothing to do with "universal" health care in this country.

[Smallc]

There have been cases in Ontario where treatment and/or medication has been denied because it would cost OHIP too much. Great system!

If its anything like Manitoba Health, they don't normally pay for experimental procedures.

[Wilber]

Pre existing conditions can be a big problem in the US. During the early nineties I was working contract for a US company in Alaska and had medical coverage through that company. A young fellow (US citizen) came to work there who had a new son born several months before. Around a year and a half later the boy was diagnosed with a heart condition that required major surgery which at that time could only be done somewhere in the lower 48 and would involve a substantial amount of money. The HMO refused to pay for it, maintaining the child was born that way and therefore it was a pre existing condition. The other employees managed to raise a fair bit of money between them to help but the family still had to take on a good chunk of debt to pay for the procedure.