Muslims in Canada want Sharia Law!

JB Globe · January 30, 2009

We shall not allow the systemic rape of our women by some religion with backward beliefs which condones the stoning to death of our women for adultery or even being accused of it.

Actually, that's what you're doing right now by allowing Orthodox Jewish family law.

But you don't care about that, because it doesn't involve Muslims.

We've done a great job here in Canada fighting for womens rights.

How about you make a post about women's rights that doesn't involve Islam in some way before you start proclaiming what a great advocate of women's rights you are?

As we can see the Canadian Muslims are quite educated and proud Canadians. This proves that educated people who love Canada can support dangerous even deadly Sharia Law. Canadians need to understand how dangerous this is.

So if I can summarize your arguement here it's this: "It doesn't matter how well educated or wealthy a Muslim Canadian is - they're likely going to support Sharia Law, and that means Islam is the problem, and Muslim Canadians are the problem."

Of course, if only you didn't have a big problem with selective reading and you didn't just read the negative stats in the article you quoted, and bothered to look at the REASONS WHY a majority of Muslim Canadians support Sharia Law:

"Underlying this is the question: Why the growing affinity to sharia? Since 9/11, Canadian Muslims have felt increased discrimination. This has a direct impact on identity and how a minority perceives its acceptance by the majority. With the raucous, sometimes racist, nature of the Ontario controversy, many Muslims were forced to focus on sharia as a component of identity, resulting in a plurality wishing to abide by Islamic principles in matters of family law."

Essentially - people are feeling marginalized by the mainstream and they're doing what other immigrant groups have done when faced with discrimination - retreat into their communities and identify more strongly with signifies of their culture or religion (ie - Sharia Law). If Mr. Canada REALLY cared about this increase in support for Sharia Law, he wouldn't try to make this into an "Islam is evil" discussion, because that will just push more Muslims away (after all, who wants to join the side in a debate that says that you are backward and evil?)

A better idea would be to make legal arguments against Sharia law that have nothing to do with bashing religion - after all, it's easier to get government policy done on legal issues than it is to on some sort of social opinion on Islam being evil. The downside is it's harder to make posts about legal issues, because then you actually have to do your homework, as opposed to just running your mouth about how terrible Islam is.

Edited January 30, 2009 by JB Globe

CANADIEN · January 31, 2009

Actually, that's what you're doing right now by allowing Orthodox Jewish family law.
But you don't care about that, because it doesn't involve Muslims.

How about you make a post about women's rights that doesn't involve Islam in some way before you start proclaiming what a great advocate of women's rights you are?

So if I can summarize your arguement here it's this: "It doesn't matter how well educated or wealthy a Muslim Canadian is - they're likely going to support Sharia Law, and that means Islam is the problem, and Muslim Canadians are the problem."

Of course, if only you didn't have a big problem with selective reading and you didn't just read the negative stats in the article you quoted, and bothered to look at the REASONS WHY a majority of Muslim Canadians support Sharia Law:

"Underlying this is the question: Why the growing affinity to sharia? Since 9/11, Canadian Muslims have felt increased discrimination. This has a direct impact on identity and how a minority perceives its acceptance by the majority. With the raucous, sometimes racist, nature of the Ontario controversy, many Muslims were forced to focus on sharia as a component of identity, resulting in a plurality wishing to abide by Islamic principles in matters of family law."

Essentially - people are feeling marginalized by the mainstream and they're doing what other immigrant groups have done when faced with discrimination - retreat into their communities and identify more strongly with signifies of their culture or religion (ie - Sharia Law). If Mr. Canada REALLY cared about this increase in support for Sharia Law, he wouldn't try to make this into an "Islam is evil" discussion, because that will just push more Muslims away (after all, who wants to join the side in a debate that says that you are backward and evil?)

A better idea would be to make legal arguments against Sharia law that have nothing to do with bashing religion - after all, it's easier to get government policy done on legal issues than it is to on some sort of social opinion on Islam being evil. The downside is it's harder to make posts about legal issues, because then you actually have to do your homework, as opposed to just running your mouth about how terrible Islam is.

A posting that makes sense... how dare you posting it? <_<

CANADIEN · January 31, 2009

As someone else pointed out, we have had civil litigation handled by Jewish Orthodox tribunals for years. With no complaints from most of the people who cried foul the moment some Muslims decided they want the same.

DrGreenthumb · January 31, 2009

Source
So as it turns out in this recent poll t hat most Canadians want CHRISTIANS to adapt to Canadian ways of life instead of us accommodating them to no end. I'm personally shocked by this but am FRUSTRATED BY it. It shows just how out of touch the CONSERVATIVE BASE ARE WITH real Canadians. Yet they continue to push for us to accommodate them when 81% of don't think we should.

The majority of RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISTS in Canada want OLD TESTAMENT law 59% of OLD REFORMERS want it. This is problematic and this issue will rear its ugly head yet again. We must continue to resist against it as this constitutes 10 steps back for the womens rights movement here in Canada. We shall not allow the systemic rape of our women by some religion with backward beliefs which condones the stoning to death of our women for adultery or even being accused of it.

We've done a great job here in Canada fighting for womens rights.(LIKE PAY EQUITY) Too hard to just hand them over in the name of JEBUS. We must not submit!

Source

As we can see the Canadian CHRISTIANS are quite HYPOCRITICAL and proud Canadians. This proves that educated people who love Canada can support dangerous even deadly RELIGIOUS BASED LAWS. Canadians need to understand how dangerous this is.

I fixed it up for ya, isn't this what you were REALLY trying to say??

Argus · January 31, 2009

As someone else pointed out, we have had civil litigation handled by Jewish Orthodox tribunals for years. With no complaints from most of the people who cried foul the moment some Muslims decided they want the same.

I know very little about Jewish law, or how it's being interpreted in the West. But I do know how backward and barbaric Sharia is.

Further, most of the Jews in Canada were born and raised here, including their religious leaders. None of the Muslim leaders were born or raised here. They have what one could perhaps term "quaint" notions about male and female responsibilities and rights. Those who subject themselves to these tribunals are also likely to be born and raised in Canada, and have an awareness of their rights in this culture. Not so anyone willing to go to a Sharia court.

CANADIEN · January 31, 2009

I know very little about Jewish law, or how it's being interpreted in the West. But I do know how backward and barbaric Sharia is.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (a western country) have been known to attack women who dared to pray at the Wailing Walls or people who dare to drive on Saturday. The religious framework Jewish Orthodox "tribunals" in this country use is based on the same interpretation of the place of women as the Sharia. The two are contrary to the laws of Canada, and no tribunal or arbitration mechanism should be allowed to resolved civil litigation using either.

Further, most of the Jews in Canada were born and raised here, including their religious leaders. None of the Muslim leaders were born or raised here. They have what one could perhaps term "quaint" notions about male and female responsibilities and rights. Those who subject themselves to these tribunals are also likely to be born and raised in Canada, and have an awareness of their rights in this culture. Not so anyone willing to go to a Sharia court.

By your logic, Muslims born and raised in Canada also have an awareness of their rights in this country. So would a decision in a child custody issue, based on the Sharia, be valid if the two parties were born and raised in Canada and therefore aware of their rights? Where the parties in a ligitation were born and raised should not make a difference in what dispute resolution mechanisms they can use.

Besides, any contract, any litigation settlement, that is contrary to the laws of Canada is invalid. No matter the parties.

Edited January 31, 2009 by CANADIEN

Oleg Bach · January 31, 2009

It's bad enough that all of the Canadian court calenders are subject to Judean approval and change .... may as well let the Muslims in and appoint a few to the Surpreme Court --- If a national group is going to get screwed, it may as well be by their own...Those that want Sharia Law are those ready to dominate their own - more jerks who can not control themselves....who lust to control others ---- may as well feed the piggys! Opps.....ok - feed them beef. Do Muslims do latkas? Lets force them to take their disputes into our system ---but they have to adjorn for all Jewish holidays...okay?

Michael Hardner · January 31, 2009

The only basis for concerns are that as the Muslim population rises, politicians, being the whores they are, will be more likely to kowtow to their wishes, and that people who believe in Sharia law - esp young people - are most likely not buying into the secular Canada concept at all, and NOT adapting and assimilating as the lefties keep telling us they will.

Argus,

So let's articulate, then, what we're afraid of. A Muslim takeover of Canada ? Or something less, like religious clerics taking part in dispute resolution ? My suspicions is that this may be just aimless fear mongering, or at best - just a fear of change.

There have been fears in the past about other cultures depleting Canada somehow, and yet we persist.

Oleg Bach · February 1, 2009

The whoredom that is politics is much like the weasil that will do anything to feed itself and maintain it's lowly position under a table waiting for scraps. We as a culture are almost gone - Our own people have destroyed their own temples while Saudi Arabia sends billions to build mosques...and now you want to give them our judical system? To bad the jet air craft was invented ---now people from other families move into our home and set down the law --- their law. We like fools with the survival instincts of a enemic mice with our rotten judical system that is parasitic to say the least ---- now - will allow hard nose Muslims in with Sharia Law...why not - put them as judges in the family court system - and when a woman betrays her husband by being a disloyal whore - she will get nothing --- where as we reward the whore and humilitate and enslave the man and children ----I say yes to Sharia...justice.....why not? I guess I am now an offical convert...at least the Muslims have rules...we have none.

kimmy · February 1, 2009

So let's articulate, then, what we're afraid of. A Muslim takeover of Canada ?

Creeping permissiveness.

-k

Oleg Bach · February 1, 2009

Creeping permissiveness.
-k

I spoke to one Muslim kid and he said he is taught at home that his job as a Muslim is to breed us out of existance. Odd though ...this westernized Muslim kid is gay....seems that western creeping permissivness worked in our favour. :lol:

Argus · February 1, 2009

Argus,
So let's articulate, then, what we're afraid of. A Muslim takeover of Canada ? Or something less, like religious clerics taking part in dispute resolution ? My suspicions is that this may be just aimless fear mongering, or at best - just a fear of change.

There have been fears in the past about other cultures depleting Canada somehow, and yet we persist.

I distrust extremely religious folks, especially those from a religion which is militant about its creed to the point of physical attacks upon even non-members who are seen as "dissing" that religion or any of its central beliefs. Islam is that religion. It wasn't very long ago - a few decades - that the census didn't even mention Muslim numbers, you know. Their numbers were so small they were lumped in with "other faiths". In 1981 the total Muslim population was 98,165. Ten years later it stood at 253,260. Ten years later it stood at 580,000. That was as of 2001, in case you're not keeping track. The number is expected to reach 1.4 million in eight years. The Muslim population has been essentially doubling every ten years. And yet it is the youngest of all denominations at an average age of 28.1 years. A group which doubles its population every 7-10 years is a group which is growing in power and influence, certainly in a democracy, where their votes count as much as anyone's. Which means that you can't simply dismiss their violent chauvinism, bigotry and religious fanaticism as quaint and not something which will affect you. Perhaps it doesn't affect you now, but how about in another twenty or thirty or forty years. As insular communities grow in size, they grow in strength and start flexing muscles and wanting more and more things to be done their way. I plan to still be living here in thirty or forty years. How about you?

An aside, the Iranian revolution was 30 years ago. I still find it astonishing that I can remember it so clearly. It just doesn't seem that long ago. Thirty years can go by far faster than some people, especially younger people, seem to believe.

Edited February 1, 2009 by Argus

CANADIEN · February 1, 2009

There have been fears in the past about other cultures depleting Canada somehow, and yet we persist.

Hear, hear.

JB Globe · February 1, 2009

A posting that makes sense... how dare you posting it?

Only in this forum is reason one step away from rebellion.

JB Globe · February 1, 2009

I know very little about Jewish law

Let me summarize Some interpretations of it are incredibly misogynistic and oppressive of women, others aren't.

But I do know how backward and barbaric Sharia is.

Some versions of Sharia are, others are not. Although I don't want Sharia law in Canada at all (simply because I believe our current legal system should be enough for everyone) I know that not every interpretation of it is as horrible as your making it out to be.

Further, most of the Jews in Canada were born and raised here, including their religious leaders.

Actually, a large amount of Orthodox Rabbis were born and educated in Israel.

None of the Muslim leaders were born or raised here.

That's false. One example - Imam Yusef Badat of Islamic Foundation, one of the largest mosques in Toronto.

Who by the way, has made dealing with domestic violence a campaign of sorts.

CANADIEN · February 1, 2009

Some versions of Sharia are, others are not. Although I don't want Sharia law in Canada at all (simply because I believe our current legal system should be enough for everyone) I know that not every interpretation of it is as horrible as your making it out to be.

Agrred. And less not forget that sharia covers a lot more than marital and sexual matters.

CANADIEN · February 1, 2009

That's false. One example - Imam Yusef Badat of Islamic Foundation, one of the largest mosques in Toronto.
Who by the way, has made dealing with domestic violence a campaign of sorts.

The number of Canadian-born leaders in the Muslim ommunities is liekely to grow as more <uslims are born here. In time, hopefully, a majority of them will not only be born here, but will also receive their spiritual training here.

Argus · February 2, 2009

Hear, hear.

And that means we always will, right, no matter how different the culture, no matter the numbers?

Oleg Bach · February 2, 2009

And that means we always will, right, no matter how different the culture, no matter the numbers?

We own the place and the interlopers of great ingratitude will have to peel the nation from our cold dead stiff hands if they want to dominate in any manner - no matter what the numbers - this is our nation...our land and our culture - and they will conform in time ----jeeezz I just loved saying that!

cybercoma · February 2, 2009

And that means we always will, right, no matter how different the culture, no matter the numbers?

The only constant thing about culture is that it's always changing. The only thing everyone has in common in Canada, that would define our culture, is that we have nothing in common.

Oleg Bach · February 2, 2009

The only constant thing about culture is that it's always changing. The only thing everyone has in common in Canada, that would define our culture, is that we have nothing in common.

Real culture and the core of traditional values within a culture never changes. There are those that carry the values of their own culture like a torch. The only way cultures can be changed as you say is to be underminded. I have always held that the Canadian concept of multi-culturalism was a sinister Treaudean plot to destroy all culture - and it does. People may not say it publically but they privately adhere to their culture come hell or high water - We for instance who established the core of Canadian culture allow this ruse of multi-culturalism to continue and placate the immigrant mind - with the idea that they are free to bring their nation here --- this keeps them occupied and in time they will be assimulated - INTO OUR CULTURE....RESISTANCE IS FUTILE...You come into the Canadian national family - and we adopt you - we own you! BUT we will pretend that you can toy about with foreign culture.

Just as with Quebec - we duped them by allowing them to be a nation within a nation --- and if you look at the word nation - it means extended family - so we allowed them to be a family within our family --- But never did we allow them to be a COUNTRY WITHIN A COUNTRY...Country is actual real estate - and Quebec is and will always be a tenant and adopted family member - I am surprise that some lawyer was clever enough to annoint Quebec as a nation ----of course they are not a country..but we let them pretend - Just as we do with our immigrants...who we have nothing in common with other than the fact that they are our wards and we are the wardens.

CANADIEN · February 2, 2009

And that means we always will, right, no matter how different the culture, no matter the numbers?

If our past is any indication, yes.

Mr.Canada · February 2, 2009

There have been fears in the past about other cultures depleting Canada somehow, and yet we persist.

Prior to the 1970's it was very difficult if not impossible to emigrate to Canada if one wasn't European, white and Christian. Nowadays the only thing we have in common with these new immigrants is that we're all humans. Nothing else. Past immigrants wanted to be proud Canadians now they just want a welfare cheque and free health care. Past immigrants made this country, built it up from nothing and now we're just going to give it all away to people that largely did nothing to help build it and only seek to exploit Canada? Use our own kindnesses and naivety against us. The very people who let them in here in the first place?

That is however nothing. The real enemy is white liberals who hold white liberal guilt. These white elite feel guilty about themselves and our heritage and wish to scrub every nuance of it from public view, like it never existed. They wish to replace it with foreign culture and foreign traditions no matter what the cost just so they can hug a brown baby and have a picture taken. There face on news exclaiming how tolerant they are no matter what the cost. Society and tradition be damned! Christianity be damned!

Any move to criticize them or even disagree is met with name calling like racist, bigot, homophobe, sexist, intolerant. Who is really intolerant? The white liberal guilt squad won't even allow discussion on any topic in their agenda they push. We're all supposed to swallow it whole no matter what they say. Sickening.

Molly · February 2, 2009

Oh, for pity sake! This is an immigrant nation!

My own European grandparents were vilified as undesireables-- those lazy, drunk and uncivilized Irish; those evil, bloodthirsty (blockheaded) Germans... Our neighbours were those stupid Norwegians, those backward Ukrainians, the thieving Romanians... Every last stinking one of them undesireable and a threat to 'civilized' Canadians, and their progressive way of life.

I guess being around for something under a hundred years makes their progeny 'us', while the next wave must be the same sort of 'them' as all of our forebears used to be.

What is this? Some sort of ritual hazing for everyone who wants to join the club?

Mr.Canada · February 2, 2009

Oh, for pity sake! This is an immigrant nation!
My own European grandparents were vilified as undesireables-- those lazy, drunk and uncivilized Irish; those evil, bloodthirsty (blockheaded) Germans... Our neighbours were those stupid Norwegians, those backward Ukrainians, the thieving Romanians... Every last stinking one of them undesireable and a threat to 'civilized' Canadians, and their progressive way of life.

I guess being around for something under a hundred years makes their progeny 'us', while the next wave must be the same sort of 'them' as all of our forebears used to be.

What is this? Some sort of ritual hazing for everyone who wants to join the club?

Were any of those groups taking part in world wide terrorism trying to bring down society?

Were any of them trying to behead Canada's PM?

Were any of them flying planes into buildings purposely?

We still had one thing in common with all of them. They were all predominately Christian people as we are.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Mr.Canada