Progressive Tory Posted January 27, 2009 Report Posted January 27, 2009 Not sure if this should be in religous or federal gov't because it touches on both, but here it is. From this morning's Calgary Herald Alberta Bishop calls for halt on oilsands growth Creation being 'sacrificed' for economic gain By Kelly Cryderman, Calgary Herald January 27, 2009 "The bishop of the Roman Catholic diocese that covers Fort McMurray has waded into the environmental debate over the oilsands, arguing future development there "constitutes a serious moral problem" and goes against God's teachings. In an online pastoral letter for Catholics in northeastern Alberta, Bishop Luc Bouchard of the Diocese of St. Paul calls for a moratorium on further oilsands development until environmental and social concerns are addressed. "I am forced to conclude that the integrity of creation in the Athabasca oilsands is clearly being sacrificed for economic gain. The proposed future development of the oilsands constitutes a serious moral problem," Bouchard writes in the long and extensively footnoted letter." I have to admit that I'd never thought of it from that perspective. Any thoughts? I know Mr. Canada will have some and I'd like to know what they are. This will definitely give envionmental issues a little more weight. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Moonbox Posted January 27, 2009 Report Posted January 27, 2009 (edited) My thoughts are that the Roman Catholic Church has no business in politics. The moral high ground of the Catholic Church dissapeared like 1500 years ago when it became hypocritical and self-serving. The fact that an RC bishop has decided the oil sands are bad is about as consequential as an angsty teenage boy with make up doing the same thing. Nobody cares. Only 26% of Albertans are Catholic anyways. 40% are protestant, 25% have no religion. Even most of the Catholics won't care. Edited January 27, 2009 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Mr.Canada Posted January 27, 2009 Report Posted January 27, 2009 Environmental issues are important but need to take a back seat atm to the economy. Green initiatives are good and any new construction needs to be green friendly imo but the oil sands are an important piece of the GDP at present to the tune of Billions of dollars a year. We cannot afford to shut them down. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Argus Posted January 27, 2009 Report Posted January 27, 2009 Not sure if this should be in religous or federal gov't because it touches on both, but here it is.From this morning's Calgary Herald Alberta Bishop calls for halt on oilsands growth Creation being 'sacrificed' for economic gain By Kelly Cryderman, Calgary Herald January 27, 2009 I wonder if the good bishop would care to instruct us in which social programs to curtail for lack of money. And perhaps, as his church pays no taxes, he ought not be commenting. When we take advice from oil workers on how the church should be operated, we'll start considering the opinions of priests on what to do about the oilsands. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Progressive Tory Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Posted January 27, 2009 When we take advice from oil workers on how the church should be operated, we'll start considering the opinions of priests on what to do about the oilsands. Very good. I just thought it might provide something else to discuss beside the budget and Harper's job. We can't deny that Churches are weighing in quite heavily on political affairs these days, from abortion to same-sex marriage; but I must admit this is the first time I've heard negative reaction on environmental issues. Preston Manning is now speaking out about the necessity of action, and I applaud him for that. However, he's doing it purely from a lay person's view. I don't believe there were any religous overtones. This certainly gives it a new dimension. Should churches get involved? Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Mr.Canada Posted January 27, 2009 Report Posted January 27, 2009 Very good. I just thought it might provide something else to discuss beside the budget and Harper's job.We can't deny that Churches are weighing in quite heavily on political affairs these days, from abortion to same-sex marriage; but I must admit this is the first time I've heard negative reaction on environmental issues. Preston Manning is now speaking out about the necessity of action, and I applaud him for that. However, he's doing it purely from a lay person's view. I don't believe there were any religous overtones. This certainly gives it a new dimension. Should churches get involved? Priests don't live in a bubble and read the papers and watch the news. Priests almost always relate to contemporary society during Mass as do Ministers during a service. These matters weigh heavily on the Church members so in turn religious heads give their opinions as well and how it relates to a given religion. They are still living in Canada and often part of the electorate. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
M.Dancer Posted January 27, 2009 Report Posted January 27, 2009 Churches have as much right to speak on political issues as hollywood celebrities and should be given as much respect as Susan Sarandon gets for her views. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Progressive Tory Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Posted January 27, 2009 Churches have as much right to speak on political issues as hollywood celebrities and should be given as much respect as Susan Sarandon gets for her views. Ha ha ha. Very clever. Actually, I usually wait until Roseanne Barr weighs in before forming an opinion, though Britney Spears has been very articulate of late. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Topaz Posted January 27, 2009 Report Posted January 27, 2009 Environmental issues are important but need to take a back seat atm to the economy. Green initiatives are good and any new construction needs to be green friendly imo but the oil sands are an important piece of the GDP at present to the tune of Billions of dollars a year. We cannot afford to shut them down. I think OPEC is doing a good job in closing them down. The lower the barrel of oil goes down, the less money being made in the oil sands, the better the environment to recover. It all in the hands of the Middle-East. Quote
85RZ500 Posted January 27, 2009 Report Posted January 27, 2009 Talk about shooting themselves in the foot. Obama has started the green ball rolling with new rules for the auto industry. It's scary when a politician who knows zip about the auto world starts making the rules. I'm amazed that the oil people let the prices escalate to their stratospheric levels. That simply spurs on the greenies to jump on the auto industry which will lessen the need for oil. Cheap oil/gas will put more disposable income in the consumers pockets while most likely correcting the spike in the cost of consumer goods brought on by higher transportation costs. C'mon OPEC, open the tap some more. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Posted January 27, 2009 Cheap oil/gas will put more disposable income in the consumers pockets while most likely correcting the spike in the cost of consumer goods brought on by higher transportation costs. You're right. It will definitely be better for everyone if gas prices stay down, at least for the short term. However, that won't make the environmental issues go away. They have to be dealt with sooner rather than later, but the cost to clean up, what has been referred to as "Alberta's Dirty Oil", could result in it no longer being cheap. A drive toward fuel efficiency is a good one, and if the auto industry wants government bailouts they must accept government interference. However, we were talking about Churches and moral authority. Where are they going with this? What makes the tar sands specifically immoral? Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
CANADIEN Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) The Catholic Church (or any Church for that matter) has the absolute right, and an obligation, to express its opinion on issues with a moral dimension. The environmental crises is a potential threat to the well-being of God's creation and the human race. There are those who will oppose Church officials commenting on any issue, no matter what it is. At lllleast they are consistent. There are also those who want church officials to enter the public debates only when they denounce abortion ooor oppose gay marriage, but remind the Church it should be preaching and stay out of politics everytime it talks about social justice, just working conditions, better social programs, immigratio, peace, and now the environment. I suppose they want the Church to speak only when they like the message. Edited January 29, 2009 by CANADIEN Quote
Smallc Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 At lllleast they are consistent. Until now I wasn't aware that you could type a stutter... Quote
CANADIEN Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 Until now I wasn't aware that you could type a stutter... Obviously you can't read, since I do it all the time !, I am the type of typo, and 2 my keyboad ii just too sensitive to the touch Quote
blueblood Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 You're right. It will definitely be better for everyone if gas prices stay down, at least for the short term. However, that won't make the environmental issues go away. They have to be dealt with sooner rather than later, but the cost to clean up, what has been referred to as "Alberta's Dirty Oil", could result in it no longer being cheap.A drive toward fuel efficiency is a good one, and if the auto industry wants government bailouts they must accept government interference. However, we were talking about Churches and moral authority. Where are they going with this? What makes the tar sands specifically immoral? low gas prices are bad for Canada. Our money making exports are all related to energy, if oil goes down our big exports are all devalued. Anyone suggesting that should be kept out of the economic policy of our country. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Smallc Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 low gas prices are bad for Canada. Yes, but so are really high ones. We need a balance or else one region or another suffers. Quote
blueblood Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 Yes, but so are really high ones. We need a balance or else one region or another suffers. Did you not look at the TSX in June??? When our exports do good, the companies involved in those exports do good. When those companies do good, the investors (which is almost everyone) do well. Those high gas prices also contribute to those transfer payments you cherish so much. Our dollar increases which makes our buying power better. If one region is suffering because we are exporting energy to the highest bidder, that shows they are too bloody stupid by not entering the energy business. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Progressive Tory Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Posted January 29, 2009 The Catholic Church (or any Church for that matter) has the absolute right, and an obligation, to express its opinion on issues with a moral dimension. The environmental crises is a potential threat to the well-being of God's creation and the human race....I suppose they want the Church to speak only when they like the message. Well said. As spiritual leaders they do have an obligation to help their followers deal with issues of the day, and certainly putting our planet at risk is a big issue. I applaud his courage, especially since he's saying it from Fort McMurray; and not Ontario. It was rather refreshing to hear a celric denounce something other than equal marriage or a woman's right to choose. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Posted January 29, 2009 Did you not look at the TSX in June??? When our exports do good, the companies involved in those exports do good. When those companies do good, the investors (which is almost everyone) do well. Those high gas prices also contribute to those transfer payments you cherish so much. Our dollar increases which makes our buying power better. If one region is suffering because we are exporting energy to the highest bidder, that shows they are too bloody stupid by not entering the energy business. Try telling the average Canadians that paying more at the pumps is good for them. High fuel prices drive up the prices on anything that needs to be transported. There has to be a balance. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Molly Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 (Right now, we have high fuel prices relative to shockingly low oil prices.... There's a disconnect.) Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
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