bush_cheney2004 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 Gee, at this rate, it will be a war crime to use bullets because of heavy metal poisoning. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
tango Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 Gee, at this rate, it will be a war crime to use bullets because of heavy metal poisoning. Perhaps ... and perhaps we'll make an exception for you. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 White Phosphorus White Phosphorus 2 Spent shells prove Israeli use of white phosphorus, Gaza doctors say How to evacuate and demolish a building: Fire a missile at the top floor and bomb the building as they rush out. ( you have to use google cache as Ha'aretz removed the news story) "IDF troops posing as Hamas men" Three UN-run schools in Gaza were attacked by Israeli forces, Israel admits rocket fire was not from within school. The definition of 'civilian' and 'combatant' must be as elastic as possible (Did you feed an undercover IDF soldier posing as a Hamas fighter, are you a government worker?) “…half of Gaza’s ambulances have already been destroyed…” Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 White Phosphorus White Phosphorus 2 Spent shells prove Israeli use of white phosphorus, Gaza doctors say How to evacuate and demolish a building: Fire a missile at the top floor and bomb the building as they rush out. ( you have to use google cache as Ha'aretz removed the news story) "IDF troops posing as Hamas men" Three UN-run schools in Gaza were attacked by Israeli forces, Israel admits rocket fire was not from within school. The definition of 'civilian' and 'combatant' must be as elastic as possible (Did you feed an undercover IDF soldier posing as a Hamas fighter, are you a government worker?) “…half of Gaza’s ambulances have already been destroyed…” UNRWA and the UN are not quite the same thing. Frankly, I don't think Israel believes UNRWA is simply helping Arab 'refugees'. The group has been accused in the past (as well as present) of aiding HAMAS/Hezbollah/PLO/etc. ---------------------------------------------------------- The dog that trots about finds a bone. ---Golda Meir Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) UNRWA and the UN are not quite the same thing. Frankly, I don't think Israel believes UNRWA is simply helping Arab 'refugees'. The group has been accused in the past (as well as present) of aiding HAMAS/Hezbollah/PLO/etc.---------------------------------------------------------- The dog that trots about finds a bone. ---Golda Meir You agree that Israel is using white phosphorus ordinance against the Palestinians just as they did in Lebanon then? Edited January 17, 2009 by lost&outofcontrol Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 You agree that Israel is using white phosphorus ordinance against the Palestinians just as they did in Lebanon then? News footage has shown it used from a distance. Doesn't mean much. If I was a soldier I'd want WP as part of my arsenal. Handy stuff in a firefight. ----------------------------------------------------------- It's a Daisy. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 News footage has shown it used from a distance. Doesn't mean much. If I was a soldier I'd want WP as part of my arsenal. Handy stuff in a firefight.----------------------------------------------------------- It's a Daisy. The very first link I posted shows 'WP' being used on civilians. Would you like me to quote the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons or the Chemical Weapons Convention or are you just going to ignore them as well? If you can justify using 'WP' on people then what's the point of arguing against genocidal apologists. I wonder how you would react watching your entire family melt before your eyes. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) The very first link I posted shows 'WP' being used on civilians. Would you like me to quote the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons or the Chemical Weapons Convention or are you just going to ignore them as well? If you can justify using 'WP' on people then what's the point of arguing against genocidal apologists. I wonder how you would react watching your entire family melt before your eyes. Spare me the dramatics, please. Save the chemical weapons card for actual chemical weapons attacks. When Israel starts using nerve gas or mustard compounds...then let's talk about chemical warfare. Re: your posted photo: I see a WP strike and a bunch of men running. How do we know they are civilians? Or are they simply all civilians if they don't wear uniforms? Pallywood has pretty much undermind the credibility of any 'reporting' done by Arab Palestinian sources. You know, there's a lot of horrible weapons out there. A flamethrower, for example. How is it different than WP when used as a weapon? Nada. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You deserve a break today... So get up and get away... To McDonald's! To McDonald's! Edited January 17, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 Unfortunately polarization has pretty much destroyed everyone's capacity to agree on a neutral interpretation of what they're all looking at. All I see is horror. Nothing more nothing less, just horror. The shape of the smoke from those WP bombs that hang in the air above their targets remind me of the machines in the War of the World's. I wonder how long it will be until we see human beings trying to outrun death rays over there? Do the Geneva Conventions cover death rays yet or will they need to be rewritten again? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 Spare me the dramatics, please. Save the chemical weapons card for actual chemical weapons attacks. When Israel starts using nerve gas or mustard compounds...then let's talk about chemical warfare. Re: your posted photo: I see a WP strike and a bunch of men running. How do we know they are civilians? Or are they simply all civilians if they don't wear uniforms? Pallywood has pretty much undermind the credibility of any 'reporting' done by Arab Palestinian sources. You know, there's a lot of horrible weapons out there. A flamethrower, for example. How is it different than WP when used as a weapon? Nada. So my point stands. You do not care if the use of white phosphorus bombs against real people (can you believe this guy?) is allowed or not. Which makes arguing with you rather pointless vis-à-vis the original topic of this thread. By the way, the use of flame throwers has been voluntarily discontinued by the US since 1978 due (in part) by "to the horrific death they inflict". IDF has never used white phosphorus bombs so why would they start now. Quote
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 I wonder how long it will be until we see human beings trying to outrun death rays over there? Truth is stranger than fiction. Quote
eyeball Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 IDF has never used white phosphorus bombs so why would they start now. Like the Taliban and Hamas, they probably monitor Internet chat forums to gauge the amount of apologizing or cheerleading that's going on and have decided there's now probably enough people who will be okay with their tactics. In any case I really do think the level of horror there is in the world does correlate to the level of indifference there is to it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 So my point stands. You do not care if the use of white phosphorus bombs against real people (can you believe this guy?) is allowed or not. Which makes arguing with you rather pointless vis-à-vis the original topic of this thread. By the way, the use of flame throwers has been voluntarily discontinued by the US since 1978 due (in part) by "to the horrific death they inflict". Thermobaric weapons (fuel-air explosives) are more effective. IDF has never used white phosphorus bombs so why would they start now. Because they are excellent incendiaries. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 So my point stands. You do not care if the use of white phosphorus bombs against real people (can you believe this guy?) is allowed or not. Which makes arguing with you rather pointless vis-à-vis the original topic of this thread. By the way, the use of flame throwers has been voluntarily discontinued by the US since 1978 due (in part) by "to the horrific death they inflict".IDF has never used white phosphorus bombs so why would they start now. I never said Israel doesn't use WP. No matter the 'conventions', every major army on the planet has WP at their disposal. If we check Hamas's weapons, we'd probably find a healthy stockpile of WP grenages and mortar rounds. From our comfy chairs, we can afford to be "ivory tower" about battle. But if the enemy was attacking and I was going to get whacked, I'd be on the radio calling for WP, HE, HEAT, CS and any other letter combination that might save me in my situation. --------------------------------------------------- It's a Daisy. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) Thermobaric weapons (fuel-air explosives) are more effective.Because they are excellent incendiaries. I am sure the little genocidal maniac inside you is very happy the United States has refused to sign the protocol on incendiary weapons which would make the use of these types of weapon illegal. Even the US army knows that 'WP' weapon are illegal (making Thermobaric weapons even worse). The Battle Book, published by the US Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth states: "It is against the law of land warfare to employ WP against personnel targets." Edited January 17, 2009 by lost&outofcontrol Quote
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) [snip] if the enemy was attacking and I was going to get whacked, I'd be on the radio calling for WP, HE, HEAT, CS and any other letter combination that might save me in my situation. Following this logic, the Palestinians would have sent a few nukes in Israel's general direction a long time ago and of course (still following your logic) they would be justified. Edited January 17, 2009 by lost&outofcontrol Quote
eyeball Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 Phosphorus is the chemical element that has the symbol P and atomic number 15. Source Of course its never too late to dispute the neutrality of this article. Anything goes in this day and age now because the neutrality of virtually everything is open to dispute. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 I am sure the little genocidal maniac inside you is very happy the United States has refused to sign the protocol on incendiary weapons which would make the use of these types of weapon illegal. Yes, I am happy to have the most effective tools / weapons available for the mission. The "maniacs" can stay home and whine about it. Even the US army knows that 'WP' weapon are illegal (making Thermobaric weapons even worse). The Battle Book, published by the US Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth states: "It is against the law of land warfare to employ WP against personnel targets." But it is not illegal to use Willy Pete for many other applications. So sue me. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 Following this logic, the Palestinians would have sent a few nukes in Israel's general direction a long time ago and of course (still following your logic) they would be justified. It has nothing to do with justice...you are using a knife in a gun fight...bad idea. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 Anything goes in this day and age now because the neutrality of virtually everything is open to dispute. The most obvious truths becomes obviously false once we dare not look at them for fear of change. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) Following this logic, the Palestinians would have sent a few nukes in Israel's general direction a long time ago and of course (still following your logic) they would be justified. There is no justice in war. Just victory or defeat. The 'rules' are a relativly new effort to make it easier on the civilian population. But as we can see, when these rules get in the way of objectives, the rules take a backseat. I doubt Hamas has nuclear weapons, however, I don't doubt their intent for a moment. If they got a hold of VX gas for example, I don't think they'd hesitate to us it on Tel Aviv or Hafia. It's just the nature of the scorpion. I can accept that...as I can using WP to take them out. War is Hell. Get out of the way or die. Question: Have you ever had someone try to kill you? ---------------------------------------- Oh me...oh my. ---Itchy: The Simpsons Edited January 17, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 It has nothing to do with justice. Apparently, DogOnPorch thinks it does. But if the enemy was attacking and I was going to get whacked, I'd be on the radio calling for WP, HE, HEAT, CS and any other letter combination that might save me in my situation. Maybe you and DogOnPorch could should start chasing your tails to make sure you are both pointing in the same direction. Quote
lost&outofcontrol Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 Question: Have you ever had someone try to kill you? No but then, I'm not an ambulance driver. Have you? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 Apparently, DogOnPorch thinks it does.Maybe you and DogOnPorch could should start chasing your tails to make sure you are both pointing in the same direction. Nope....as always...DOP's logic and pragmatism are consistent. I suspect he prefers photographs over paintings in time of war. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 No but then, I'm not an ambulance driver.Have you? Yes...the IRA in 1973. It changes one's outlook on life. Keeping it in particular. ---------------------------- It's a Daisy. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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