DND

[Topaz]

Radio station CKLW, in Windsor, it talking about the 274Mil award for 1300 military trucks that will be built in Garland Texas and NOT at the Navistar plant in Chatham ON. These trucks will stay in Canada to move people, supplies and equipment. and people are questioning why not build them here in Canada. The Harper govt wants to increase the military so why not have a plant/plants to make the CANADIAN vehicles? Navistar got loans from the Ontario and the Feds. to keep Navistar going back in 2003, which I think they either have paid off or nearly has. The Chatham plant has employed 1200 workers and by this March they will be down to 200 workers and still make the 32 units per day. Navistar has also has a plant in Mexico which they have been producing trucks and I believe their plans is to close the Ontario plant all together once the Mexican plant can produce trucks at 30 units a day which right now they can only do 25. Most vendors who buy Navistar trucks want Canadian built.

[OddSox]

The Chatham plant builds heavy-duty trucks; these are much smaller trucks ... that wouldn't fit on the assembly line

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/570638

Even if it were possible, retooling would add $millions to the cost and months to the delivery date. It would take less than 50 days to build 1300 trucks at 25-30 per day - then what?

[Yorkness]

I believe the reason that the work was contracted to the US plant was that it had the capacity to build the trucks specified by the government. Apparently the Ontario plant was only capacitated or specialized to build large trucks while the US plant could build light to medium trucks, which were the ones the government is planning on getting built.

[AngusThermopyle]

We already tried the build our own trucks thing and it cost us a fortune. We actually built a plant to produce the trucks and when the procurement contract was finished we shut her down. Does anyone think thats a wise way to do things?

[Army Guy]

Maybe none of the Canadian firms could meet the requirements. Note requirement 3.1 a

3 REQUIREMENT

3.1 Key Mandatory requirements for the SMP vehicle include, but are not limited to, the following:

a. The vehicle's Base Chassis must be in-service with a NATO military force and

have accumulated a total of at least 2 million kilometres on the fleet in conditions

that are representative of the MSVS Project SMP vehicle mission profile;

b. The vehicle must be tactically air transportable by a C-130 [Hercules] Aircraft;

c. The vehicle must have a [minimum] payload capacity of ... 4.5 tonnes (Cargo

variant) and 8 tonnes (Crane and LHS variant); and

d. The vehicle must be capable of having an armour protection system installed

(add-on or cab replacement) that protects occupants while located in the cab of

the vehicle. Note that when the APS is installed, the vehicle is not specifically

required to be tactically transportable by C-130 aircraft;

CASR

[madmax]

Maybe none of the Canadian firms could meet the requirements. Note requirement 3.1 a

3 REQUIREMENT

3.1 Key Mandatory requirements for the SMP vehicle include, but are not limited to, the following:

a. The vehicle's Base Chassis must be in-service with a NATO military force and

have accumulated a total of at least 2 million kilometres on the fleet in conditions

that are representative of the MSVS Project SMP vehicle mission profile;

b. The vehicle must be tactically air transportable by a C-130 [Hercules] Aircraft;

c. The vehicle must have a [minimum] payload capacity of ... 4.5 tonnes (Cargo

variant) and 8 tonnes (Crane and LHS variant); and

d. The vehicle must be capable of having an armour protection system installed

(add-on or cab replacement) that protects occupants while located in the cab of

the vehicle. Note that when the APS is installed, the vehicle is not specifically

required to be tactically transportable by C-130 aircraft;

CASR

Always hang around the guys in stores

3.1 a is a requirement that the Canadian operations can implement. If not in Ontario, the facility in quebec can meet this spec.

That said, it is smoke and mirrors to suggest this couldn't be made in the Ontario operations.

End of the day, this is how the game is made. We give money to large corps and they choose where it goes.

The stipulation that these be made in Canada would not be out of line and would have a cost benefit.

Regardless, the parts required to go on the vehicle are as likely to come from Canadian Parts suppliers, as any other location.

[Topaz]

Well keep this in mind, IF Canada is going to rebuild its military up to par with the rest of the world , then we should have a plants or plants to build these units or we will be giving billions of dollars to some other country. Now Navistar Defence is just a newly formed divison in 2003 to save the company from going under and the company does have the money to retool and it would help the unemployment in Canada but its a US based company and they don't care about Canadian employment. If we don't get people back to work than the people who are working will be paying for the unemployed through higher taxes all the way around, if you don't lose your own.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Most vendors who buy Navistar trucks want Canadian built.

How do you know this? Why are you hatin' on Mexico, which is perfectly capable of building trucks...at a lower price?

Like you said...krikey....Navistar is an American firm!

[blueblood]

How do you know this? Why are you hatin' on Mexico, which is perfectly capable of building trucks...at a lower price?

Like you said...krikey....Navistar is an American firm!

Topaz believes that people in third world countries should stay poor and that only people in Ontario factories are allowed to make money.

[Progressive Tory]

Topaz believes that people in third world countries should stay poor and that only people in Ontario factories are allowed to make money.

No, what Topaz believes, and I agree, is that for some strange reason we thought the Conservative Gov't was Canadian. And for some strange reason we thought they would make an extra effort to SAVE CANADIAN JOBS. Silly us.

It makes much more sense to pay Canadians EI, than collect income tax from Canadian workers.

[Topaz]

How do you know this? Why are you hatin' on Mexico, which is perfectly capable of building trucks...at a lower price?

Like you said...krikey....Navistar is an American firm!

Yes, Mexico does build trucks at low price and reason why is they wages are $4.00 hrly and no benefits! Now BC would YOU work for that? Yes, Navistar is an American firm, that borrowed Canadian $$$ to keep afloat, so I think Ontarians and Canadians would want their money worth! I dislike products that come into Canada from Mexico because I've bought those products and they either fall apart in a very short time or they are defective from the start.

[Topaz]

Topaz believes that people in third world countries should stay poor and that only people in Ontario factories are allowed to make money.

That's your opinion not mine and you are wrong.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, Mexico does build trucks at low price and reason why is they wages are $4.00 hrly and no benefits! Now BC would YOU work for that? Yes, Navistar is an American firm, that borrowed Canadian $$$ to keep afloat, so I think Ontarians and Canadians would want their money worth!

They did....want to pay them some more?

I dislike products that come into Canada from Mexico because I've bought those products and they either fall apart in a very short time or they are defective from the start.

The same can be said about crap built in Canada too (or the USA)....nothing special. I had to return some siding from Abitibi many years ago because the primer was defective.

[blueblood]

No, what Topaz believes, and I agree, is that for some strange reason we thought the Conservative Gov't was Canadian. And for some strange reason we thought they would make an extra effort to SAVE CANADIAN JOBS. Silly us.

It makes much more sense to pay Canadians EI, than collect income tax from Canadian workers.

The Conservative Gov't is looking out for Canadian consumers and taxpayers. Last I checked there were more of us than lazy autoworkers. The Canadian gov'ts first priority is to its taxpayers and consumers, not some extortionist autoworkers.

Those particular Canadian jobs are screwing over fellow Canadians to the point of extortion. Why should Mexican's suffer because some elitists want crappy cars built by overpaid incompetant buffoons. Richer Mexicans benefits Canada by richer people buying our other products, and our consumers benefit by not being gouged.

[blueblood]

That's your opinion not mine and you are wrong.

By saying that Mexico shouldn't have Ontario jobs, where oh where do you think Mexicans are going to get money from, the money tree? God forbid a company wants to give poor Mexicans a hand up. What do you think Mexicans should do, lie around poor begging for money?

But in your sick world view, Ontarians should get all the jobs, no matter how incompetant and how expensive they are and to hell with Canadian consumers and to hell with making lives better in a third world country.

I happen to think a richer Mexico is in Canada's best interest.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Keep in mind contracts go to the lowest bidders. Cheap labour, lower cost products, simple math. That is how we do business. Now if you want to buy Canadian.....lets just start with building some airplanes, like a CF105 maybe...................

[Army Guy]

Madmax:

Always hang around the guys in stores

3.1 a is a requirement that the Canadian operations can implement. If not in Ontario, the facility in quebec can meet this spec.

That said, it is smoke and mirrors to suggest this couldn't be made in the Ontario operations.

End of the day, this is how the game is made. We give money to large corps and they choose where it goes.

The stipulation that these be made in Canada would not be out of line and would have a cost benefit.

Regardless, the parts required to go on the vehicle are as likely to come from Canadian Parts suppliers, as any other location.

I don't think having them built in Canada is the problem, the problem is finding a company within Canada or a foreign company with a plant in Canada that already has a platform within NATO service with over 2 MIL kms on that chasis.

There is alot of reasons for this. This veh may to be used in Afgan or some other mission in the future, and it needs to be combat proven, it has to have the combat protection equipment already designed and in production, it needs to have already established massive spare parts inventory, and it must fit in with existing equipment already in our forces.

To many times have we played politics with our military equipment, in order to have it built in someones riding, or creating jobs, or in some cases just so we can say it's built in Canada. And while all of that is great,.... The first and foremost option we should be looking at is it the best veh of chioce for our military, will it perform and protect our nations soldiers. Our military forces does not t recieve equipment very often, and the equipment we do recieve should be the best on the market as it will be in service for 20 plus years.

Sometimes we just can not have our cake and eat it to.

[madmax]

Madmax:

I don't think having them built in Canada is the problem, the problem is finding a company within Canada or a foreign company with a plant in Canada that already has a platform within NATO service with over 2 MIL kms on that chasis.

Sometimes we just can not have our cake and eat it to.

Those specs are not difficult to meet.

[Army Guy]

Those specs are not difficult to meet.

Your right they are not, whichs raises one question why did these Canadain companies miss the boat....

Quote from the art....

"After identifying the need, Public Works follows a competitive procurement process."

But the public works department referred the question to Industry Canada and, in the end, there appeared to be no answer

I find it difficult to believe all the hoopla, any government contract goes thru PWSG which puts it on the mercs sys for all Companys across Canada and the globe to see.....and none applied, now they "the CAW workers" are yelling and screaming saying they could do the job...someone at those plants was sleeping at the switch.....

I don't think it's DND or our government that is at fault here....everyone had a chance in fact more than 3 months chance while it was on the mercs sys....not just this one company but every company across Canada....

star

[Topaz]

Your right they are not, whichs raises one question why did these Canadain companies miss the boat....

Quote from the art....

"After identifying the need, Public Works follows a competitive procurement process."

But the public works department referred the question to Industry Canada and, in the end, there appeared to be no answer

I find it difficult to believe all the hoopla, any government contract goes thru PWSG which puts it on the mercs sys for all Companys across Canada and the globe to see.....and none applied, now they "the CAW workers" are yelling and screaming saying they could do the job...someone at those plants was sleeping at the switch.....

I don't think it's DND or our government that is at fault here....everyone had a chance in fact more than 3 months chance while it was on the mercs sys....not just this one company but every company across Canada....

star

For one thing, Navistar Defence is in Texas, so they would never want them built in Canada unless the Feds changed the rules that ALL vehicles in Canada have to be made in Canada and under the Tories that will NEVER happen so dollars and jobs go south.

[madmax]

For one thing, Navistar Defence is in Texas, so they would never want them built in Canada unless the Feds changed the rules that ALL vehicles in Canada have to be made in Canada and under the Tories that will NEVER happen so dollars and jobs go south.

Suck it up.

[Topaz]

Suck it up.

problem Maxie?