Corporate Greed

[krazy kanuck]

Do you think that corporate greed sparked the worsening of our economy?

Corporations were so intent in making a profit for their stock holders that they moved their factories offshore to take advantage of cheaper wages. Right now we are reaping the benefits of these descisions and the corporations are too. So many jobs have been moved offshore that the people here are out of work. If they are not working they cannot buy. I think a lot of these CEO's must have failed simple economics. If you produce something, anything you need a buyer for it. The old law of supply and demand is alive and well. The auto companies now have been so good at producing cars that no one can afford.

The corporations are all screaming for government money to bail them out. These same corporations that neglect the payment of taxes in any way they can and of course have no loyalty to any country. Just to themselves and their major stocholders who are mostly CEO's and upper management.

We are witnessing a real downfall in the major industrial, financial, housing and commercial real estate markets.

Could it be that we are beginning to see that money is not the real source of wealth??

Wealth does not buy health. At any price. Sure it may buy a nicer room and better care but it will not buy better health.

I wonder what the wealthy will eat? Do dollar bills taste good? How about diamonds and gold or silver bars?

[M.Dancer]

Do you think that corporate greed sparked the worsening of our economy?

Corporations were so intent in making a profit for their stock holders that they moved their factories offshore to take advantage of cheaper wages. Right now we are reaping the benefits of these descisions and the corporations are too.

Which has nothing to do with the current credit crisis.

So many jobs have been moved offshore that the people here are out of work.

Before the credt crunch, there were just as many jobs offshore yet unemployment was not a problem.

The auto companies now have been so good at producing cars that no one can afford.

The problem with the US auto companies was not sales.

The corporations are all screaming for government money to bail them out. These same corporations that neglect the payment of taxes in any way they can and of course have no loyalty to any country. Just to themselves and their major stocholders who are mostly CEO's and upper management.

Wrong on a number of counts.

1) Corporations are not allscreaming for money. Auto makers are and the list begins there and ends with some US financial firms.

2) No one has defaulted on taxes

3)The major stockholders are not CEOs etc. They are institutionals (and the bulk being mom and pop retail investors. Stockholders are the ones who get burnt first, tey get squat from companies that don't make money.

We are witnessing a real downfall in the major industrial, financial, housing and commercial real estate markets.

Could it be that we are beginning to see that money is not the real source of wealth??

Wealth does not buy health. At any price. Sure it may buy a nicer room and better care but it will not buy better health.

I wonder what the wealthy will eat? Do dollar bills taste good? How about diamonds and gold or silver bars?

Umm...no.

[krazy kanuck]

And what brought on the current credit crunch, pray tell, if not corporate greed of financial institutions buying worthless asset backed commericial paper.

And loaning money to those who could not afford to repay the loans??

And what exactly is the problem with auto makers if it is not sales??

Edited January 13, 2009 by krazy kanuck

[M.Dancer]

And what exactly is the problem with auto makers if it is not sales??

Debt associated with labour costs. Fact is they were losing on the sale of cars...but they were making money on the financing. When the markets plunged capitalthay tey had invested in order to finance pensions and healthcare disappeared.

[krazy kanuck]

Well M. Dancer what you are saying is that the three stooges running the Detroit auto industry were producing cars at a loss?

So they really deserve those million dollar salaries?? Some may believe you, but I have my doubts.

[M.Dancer]

Well M. Dancer what you are saying is that the three stooges running the Detroit auto industry were producing cars at a loss?

So they really deserve those million dollar salaries?? Some may believe you, but I have my doubts.

Well to be fair, had they been able to cut the wages and benefits of their employees past and present they cars would be profitable. Amlot of blame does go to past a present management for negotiating contracts that have put the company where it is now. I suppose in 1970 they never thought that thir retirees would live so long....

[Oleg Bach]

Well to be fair, had they been able to cut the wages and benefits of their employees past and present they cars would be profitable. Amlot of blame does go to past a present management for negotiating contracts that have put the company where it is now. I suppose in 1970 they never thought that thir retirees would live so long....

Upper middle management are the most greedy and ruthless - the people on top of corporations - the founders born with money do not do it for the money - the problem was that the corporate empires grew to huge and to complex to be managed and the lunitics started running the nut house - and stealing the public blind...while the old boss on top could not get around the monster he created - It's like the Frankenstein syndrome - the system created by the ambitious guys out of the early 60's has now come back to bite them - they became too successful..and that is the simplicity of the problem - to big to complex to manage.

[Wilber]

I do think corporate North America has lost its way in many respects and the world is suffering as a result. One example. On one hand you have Haruka Nishimatsu, the CEO of Japan Airlines cutting his own pay to 90K a year (not much if you live in Tokyo), giving up all his perks, taking transit to work and eating in the employee cafeteria in order to set an example as he tries to restructure his airline. On the other hand we have the likes of Robert Milton, CEO of ACE Aviation and former CEO of Air Canada, selling off the company's most profitable assets to the tune of over 2.8 billion and distributing 2 billion to ACE shareholders, planning on disappearing into the distance with the remaining cash, leaving the airline twisting in the wind. For this, he is the third highest paid CEO in Canada to the tune of 37 million or so for what, dismantling a company. Wonder what he could get for actually building one, but that would take real work, real talent and real risk. Although they exist, we seem to be short of people with that kind of commitment and integrity.

Interestingly enough, a prime shareholder of ACE and architect of this strategy is Cerberus Capital, the same company the government is going to shovel money to in order to try and keep Chrysler alive. Corporate integrity. Right.

[charter.rights]

Well to be fair, had they been able to cut the wages and benefits of their employees past and present they cars would be profitable. Amlot of blame does go to past a present management for negotiating contracts that have put the company where it is now. I suppose in 1970 they never thought that thir retirees would live so long....

Cite please.

GM is in trouble because they are the major shareholder of GMAC which had been playing with below prime mortgages. They have been producing and selling cars - even as this past summer - with record profits, using the same workforce as they have had for 20 years.

The issue IS greed.

BTW my mother-in-law is still collecting monthly dividends from both her GM and GMAC stock. Seems that GM AND GMAC may not be in that much trouble after all. But if the government is giving away free money.....then why not.....?

[Michael Hardner]

Cite please.

GM is in trouble because they are the major shareholder of GMAC which had been playing with below prime mortgages. They have been producing and selling cars - even as this past summer - with record profits, using the same workforce as they have had for 20 years.

The issue IS greed.

BTW my mother-in-law is still collecting monthly dividends from both her GM and GMAC stock. Seems that GM AND GMAC may not be in that much trouble after all. But if the government is giving away free money.....then why not.....?

CR, although I concur with you that Morris' assertion is single-faceted (it was a lot more than wage issues that put her in hot water), I also think it's too simple to say "greed". Greed, basically, motivates every corporation. Mismanagement, wrong guesses and short-term thinking are what makes American greed less successful than Japanese greed.

[M.Dancer]

Cite please.

What is it you want a cite for?

[Wilber]

Remember Lee Iacocca, the man who rescued Chrysler Corporation from its death throes?

He's now 82 years old and has a new book, 'Where Have All The Leaders Gone?'.

Lee Iacocca Says:

'Am I the only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening? Where the hell is our outrage?

But someone has to speak up. I hardly recognize this country anymore.

The most famous business leaders are not the innovators but the guys in handcuffs.

. . .

[Wild Bill]

Remember Lee Iacocca, the man who rescued Chrysler Corporation from its death throes?

He's now 82 years old and has a new book, 'Where Have All The Leaders Gone?'.

Lee Iacocca Says:

'Am I the only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening? Where the hell is our outrage?

But someone has to speak up. I hardly recognize this country anymore.

The most famous business leaders are not the innovators but the guys in handcuffs.

. . .

This link might be interesting to some:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123146363567166677.html

It talks about how today's situation mirrors that written about by Ayn Rand in her novel 'Atlas Shrugged'.

Like her or hate her, there ARE some parallels!

[krazy kanuck]

Looks like Ayn Rand hit the proverbial nail on the head with the book "Atlas Shrugged."

Just imagine the money that would free up if every non-essential employee were turfed out to find a useful job other than paper shuffling and giving excuses.

Imagine if all level of governments cleaned their own houses and reduced our taxes accordingly.

[eyeball]

Blind greed is more like it. Mostly though I think our economy's endless reach for yield is the real culprit. That so many people have been compelled to do so in a finacial world of make believe underscores the fact its harder and harder with each passing year to base never mind sustain economic growth on our planet's natural capital.

The reference to Ayn Rand is an interesting one especially in light of all the second-handers who's job its been to make eking out a living in the bush a real pain in the ass for me and my homies this year. I guess with the collapse of forestry they've got no one else to pick on or use to justify their existences.

Atlas has certainly proven to great an obstacle for a one-man seaweed business to overcome and tourism looks like its definitely going to be in the toilet this year so its back to commercial fishing for me. I really have to wonder why I'm so eager to get back into fishing again with all the cameras and validators and second-handers that'll be lined up looking for a piece of that action though. At least you can rest assured my greed won't be blind, it'll be all there for the world to see and quantify one fish at a time.

If you eat wild fish please look for fish that carries a Marine Stewardship Council lable indicating it has been caught in a fishery that is managed for sustainability. We're still working on certification and hope it'll be in place this year. Dogfish.

[eyeball]

I really have to wonder why I'm so eager to get back into fishing again...

I really don't to tell the truth...my need to sustain myself and my family is too great. I'm just thankfull there's still enough of the real world left to do so.

I can hardly wait actually. There is nothing quite like a boat full of fish to make a person feel like they've produced something, unless its a cord of firewood...speaking of which...my aching back.