Army Guy Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Secondly - no honourable soldier referes to the supposed enemy as "Garbage" - you are supposed to be impartial and not emotionally hateful in order to fulfill the mission efficently Would'nt it be nice if we all live in a perfect world, one with the ability to see evil, hate and war as it truely is and to forgive those that force it upon us. And to maintain that way of thinking after you see, smell, hear and taste the real effects of war. Soldiers are not robots we can plug our morals and values into and expect them not to be effected by war...no soldiers are human prone to the same mistakes and qualities as it citizens who have charged them with these duties.....to expect more is a pipe dream... You also say that this soldier should get a medel of his service ----real hero - hugh - offing a man laying on the ground! What makes this act is disturbing to you ? the fact that he was unarmed, wounded not able to defend himself...or the fact that he may of shown some compasion to his enemy and shot him, putting him out of his pain and misery.... You are silly my friend and as rediculous as the High Way Of Heros --- or as silly and curious as that damed corners office that they send dead Canadian solders to to study like dead lab rats...can you imagine giving an autopsy to say 20 million dead Russians during the battle of Stalingrad So you did read my post addressed to you, just did not have the balls to answer me directly...instead you are intent to skirt the issue with me, and instead take your anger out on others. Very cowardly of you....a person with such a strong conviction and beliefs and is still not able to put into words or debate the WHY, How,. but rather make statements that are false, wrong, and insulting. So yes Words can cut like a knife, your words and mine. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Alta4ever Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) - no honourable soldier referes to the supposed enemy as "Garbage" - you are supposed to be impartial and not emotionally hateful in order to fulfill the mission efficently. What were the solders calling the enemy in WW I, WW II, Korea, Vietnam? I think stronger words then "garbage" were used. Edited January 16, 2009 by Alta4ever Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 War has never and will never be a civilized thing, it is a horrible ugy transgression. It is this way as something to feared. To expect hate not to come out of it is misguided, when you best friend killed by the enemy, you begin to hate, that fact that these solders are able to deal with this and try to live a normal life on returning goes to show the strength of the vast majority of these people. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
BigAl Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 That's a bunch of crap - do you think that the real body count of civilians and service people fighting in Iraq is accurate? Do you actually believe that the real body count of those in Palistine is real and true? It's disgraceful when civlian arm chair critics use the term body count as if those that are dead are not human. That was the very question I was posing, Oleg -- and I'm not trying to be disrespectful in referring to it as a body count...but I don't happen to know the individual name of every man, woman and child who's been killed in the conflict. I'll do what I can to get that information for you in an effort to not be "disgraceful". Quote
Oleg Bach Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 What were the solders calling the enemy in WW I, WW II, Korea, Vietnam? I think stronger words then "garbage" were used. This is not sixty years ago - we have progressed. So they called them "Gooks" - "Japs" - "Crouts" and so on ----- we know better now - to dehumanize your enemy is old school - to dehumanize the homeless is much the same...to dehumanize a person in buisness and generate a hostile merger - causing your counter part to commit suicide is also old hat......Germany was a direct threat to us - as was Japan - These goofs running about waging tribal wars amongst themselves and with us - are not about to come to Toronto..Afghanistan can best be describes as the product of American and Canadian bankers and politicals who at the end of their boring office tower careers - want to be like their grandfathers and be involved with something real and relevant - KILLING. Quote
Army Guy Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 But as far as body counts go...they *do* release certain information to the public -- I mean, I guess they have to when somebody's kid comes home in a box -- do they change the information to reflect a lower body count? Or are you referring strictly to "enemy" casualties? DND will notify the media whenever a Canadian is wounded or killed, no exceptions, no changes...DND will impose a media ban on info until next of kin have been notified... this ban means they cut all telephone, cell tranmissions, internet, "any form of comms until next of kin notification....that means to everyone, military, civilian, everyone... Enemy Body count figures are release once in awhile, the PAFFO will normally give those figures to the media, but try to discourage thier use...numbers that are release are est, but pretty close...A detailed number is recieved after the battlefield is secured, those numbers are for military reports to NATO, and our government , no other eyes are permitted....The whole body count issue was from leasons learned from Vietnam it did not work there so they did not make it an issue here... I want to note that this is only done on smaller battlefields, larger ones like OP Mudusa enemy cas and kills were to numerous , the battle lasted serveral weeks and alot of enemy bodies where removed due to custom and religion so acurate counts could not be made.... There is nothing to be gained by giving false numbers, and when they are given there normally pretty accurate... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
BigAl Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 This is not sixty years ago - we have progressed. So they called them "Gooks" - "Japs" - "Crouts" and so on ----- we know better now - to dehumanize your enemy is old school - to dehumanize the homeless is much the same...to dehumanize a person in buisness and generate a hostile merger - causing your counter part to commit suicide is also old hat......Germany was a direct threat to us - as was Japan - These goofs running about waging tribal wars amongst themselves and with us - are not about to come to Toronto..Afghanistan can best be describes as the product of American and Canadian bankers and politicals who at the end of their boring office tower careers - want to be like their grandfathers and be involved with something real and relevant - KILLING. Come on, you're telling me it was in any way possible for Nazi soldiers to come knocking on our doors in Toronto? Do you have any conception of logistics whatsoever? Man, your arguments are all over the place. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 These goofs running about waging tribal wars amongst themselves and with us - are not about to come to Toronto Really is this true apparently not have you seen some of the people that have come over and become refugees, what about the kid sitting in Gitmo? An enemy combatant that is a Canadian Citizen who'd a thunk it? Please remind me what part of Canada he lived in? What about the 10 that were arrested for planning a terror attack instide our own country what city were they from? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Oleg Bach Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Really is this true apparently not have you seen some of the people that have come over and become refugees, what about the kid sitting in Gitmo? An enemy combatant that is a Canadian Citizen who'd a thunk it? Please remind me what part of Canada he lived in? What about the 10 that were arrested for planning a terror attack instide our own country what city were they from? The kid who sits at Gitmo - was from a more sophisticated segment of THAT society...His father was an idealog..The average Afghani is a simpleton. Just like us - the average Torontonian is also a simpleton - as are those who open up the doors to immigration with a policy fueled by a combination of liberal mindlessness and conservative greed seeking cheaper labour. Also all I can say about those "planning attacks" - they can do nothing without funding....and you have to go to the source - not to the peasants that we kill for sport. No one wants to confront those funding terrorism any more than anyone wants to admit that the American commander and chief is a twit and is mentally ill ---- Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 The kid who sits at Gitmo - was from a more sophisticated segment of THAT society...His father was an idealog..The average Afghani is a simpleton. Just like us - the average Torontonian is also a simpleton - as are those who open up the doors to immigration with a policy fueled by a combination of liberal mindlessness and conservative greed seeking cheaper labour. So we are killing peasants for sport? Is that really what you think? I am a classical conservative and I am not greedy so get bent. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
BigAl Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 So we are killing peasants for sport? Is that really what you think?I am a classical conservative and I am not greedy so get bent. Let's throw them in a ring with some tigers and whatnot. Come on, that's great entertainment! Quote
eyeball Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Would'nt it be nice if we all live in a perfect world... It would, but we don't. According to you we seem to live in a world that is so FUBAR its practically hopeless. Todays conflicts are moving towards insurgency type warfare, and it looks nothing like yesteryears peacekeeping days, those are gone forever i think.... So what's the point of fighting then? I'm almost as convinced as you are that the rest of the planet will be at war with itself for a long long time. I just think we'd be better off if we kept our heads down and above all else, minded our own business. You seem to think nothing will invite an invasion sooner if we do though. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Alta4ever Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 It would, but we don't. According to you we seem to live in a world that is so FUBAR its practically hopeless.So what's the point of fighting then? I'm almost as convinced as you are that the rest of the planet will be at war with itself for a long long time. I just think we'd be better off if we kept our heads down and above all else, minded our own business. You seem to think nothing will invite an invasion sooner if we do though. Please show me were isolationism has ever benefitted a country? History doesn't agree. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Army Guy Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 It would, but we don't. According to you we seem to live in a world that is so FUBAR its practically hopeless Large protions of the world are FUBAR'd . Check the UN web site there is over 60 conflicts going on as we speak....But far from hopeless... So what's the point of fighting then? I'm almost as convinced as you are that the rest of the planet will be at war with itself for a long long time. I just think we'd be better off if we kept our heads down and above all else, minded our own business. You seem to think nothing will invite an invasion sooner if we do though. Sticking our heads in the sand is not going to solve anything either. and if we don't stand up together for your rights and freedoms or that of others , what message will that send the world , it's ok to start your own little war or insurgency to get what you want....not just around the globe but in our own backyard.... Such as that group responsable for bombing the pipe lines in BC....why not take it to the streets of Vanacouver, one does need automatic wpns to fight an insurgency just the will, and the lack of action by others..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Please show me were isolationism has ever benefitted a country? History doesn't agree. So does genothasia appeal to you, or do you prefer the endlessness of insurgency? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Oleg Bach Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Please show me were isolationism has ever benefitted a country? History doesn't agree. Being an isolationist country benefits the average person and keeps up a consistant but simple quality of life. The only persons that do not benefit from Isolationism are the ones who are super rich and want more and more..a few greedy people does not constitute a nation. As for history - who gives a damn about the past - we don't learn anything from it anyway. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Being an isolationist country benefits the average person and keeps up a consistant but simple quality of life. The only persons that do not benefit from Isolationism are the ones who are super rich and want more and more..a few greedy people does not constitute a nation. As for history - who gives a damn about the past - we don't learn anything from it anyway. Really how many Americans payed with their lives in two world wars when they were eventually drawn in? What if Japan hadn't been ignored before it directly attacked America? You right you haven't learned anything from history. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 So does genothasia appeal to you, or do you prefer the endlessness of insurgency? Neither, but ignoring what happing in the world doesn't make the problems go away, and when you ignore a problem it generally get worse. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Being an isolationist country benefits the average person and keeps up a consistant but simple quality of life. Really? Then why not find one (if such a place exists) and move there...problem solved! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Alta4ever Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 So Again I ask the question show me were isolationism has worked for a country? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Oleg Bach Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Really how many Americans payed with their lives in two world wars when they were eventually drawn in? What if Japan hadn't been ignored before it directly attacked America? You right you haven't learned anything from history. Put it this way - If America the hypocrite was really a Christian nation - then after the attack of 9 11 - they should have forgiven the attackers and taken all of their resourses and sealed off the nation - with one sweet warning - You hit us again and we will nuke you. America is so powerful that if they concentrated all their force on their own turf nothing could get through - but instead they are adventurist and empiralists ...andnow they pay the price economically for being all over the place maintaining an empire that is almost global. America for your information was "drawn in" - but only when they thought that others could not handle the dirty work...so they extend themselves not out of benevolence but out selfishness and that is why they are hated. They think only of themselves - and- if they were truely a good Christian nation as they like to brag - no one would attack them..they are attacked because they bring harm to others. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Put it this way - If America the hypocrite was really a Christian nation - then after the attack of 9 11 - they should have forgiven the attackers and taken all of their resourses and sealed off the nation - with one sweet warning - You hit us again and we will nuke you. America is so powerful that if they concentrated all their force on their own turf nothing could get through - but instead they are adventurist and empiralists ...andnow they pay the price economically for being all over the place maintaining an empire that is almost global. America for your information was "drawn in" - but only when they thought that others could not handle the dirty work...so they extend themselves not out of benevolence but out selfishness and that is why they are hated. They think only of themselves - and- if they were truely a good Christian nation as they like to brag - no one would attack them..they are attacked because they bring harm to others. Again I ask for historical proof that isolationism has worked, it has been tried before. Quit tring to change the subject. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
eyeball Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Large protions of the world are FUBAR'd . Check the UN web site there is over 60 conflicts going on as we speak....But far from hopeless... ...peacekeeping days, those are gone forever... Forever is far from hopeless in your mind? Sticking our heads in the sand is not going to solve anything either. I never said stick our heads in the sand. You know I've said we should build a nuclear deterance to protect oursleves. But you seem to be determined we muck about the world's quagmires forever instead. and if we don't stand up together for your rights and freedoms or that of others , what message will that send the world , it's ok to start your own little war or insurgency to get what you want....not just around the globe but in our own backyard.... I think the message Canada needs to send the world is that we value our lives too much to waste them trying to save the world from its own stupidity. Unless the world wants to deal with us on our terms it should go mind its own business. Its a pagan ethos born out of years of listening to people point out the futility of trying to help losers who insist on behaving in a self-destructive manner. Its a good hard-nosed argument that seems to work in the case of people or even industries but not cultures. I fail to see why. Such as that group responsable for bombing the pipe lines in BC....why not take it to the streets of Vanacouver, one does need automatic wpns to fight an insurgency just the will, and the lack of action by others..... This is a police matter. Are you suggesting we send the army to deal with that? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Oleg Bach Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Again I ask for historical proof that isolationism has worked, it has been tried before. Quit tring to change the subject. Okay so I am ill informed and you caught me bull shitting again....I was actually looking at the idea of maintaining a nation and it's resourses strickly for the use of the inhabitants of that nation - not about spreading doctrines of say "democracy" or making sure a "little girl can go to school and not have to wear the dreaded berka....' Pushing foreign policy from us to them and attempting to inforce our values in a vain attempt to have us benefit while others give up their culture and wealth is not my idea of civilized behavior. Having said nothing - and continuing to BS you...I actually believe we really don't need other nations - we should run our country like self suffient farm...and to hell with helping or attacking or trading with other nations - China! Every product purchased from them that is made out of metal is so poor in quality that they items are not fit to be called use full - just land fill crap. We are Canada - and we have it all! Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 Okay so I am ill informed and you caught me bull shitting again....I was actually looking at the idea of maintaining a nation and it's resourses strickly for the use of the inhabitants of that nation - not about spreading doctrines of say "democracy" or making sure a "little girl can go to school and not have to wear the dreaded berka....' Pushing foreign policy from us to them and attempting to inforce our values in a vain attempt to have us benefit while others give up their culture and wealth is not my idea of civilized behavior. Having said nothing - and continuing to BS you...I actually believe we really don't need other nations - we should run our country like self suffient farm...and to hell with helping or attacking or trading with other nations - China! Every product purchased from them that is made out of metal is so poor in quality that they items are not fit to be called use full - just land fill crap. We are Canada - and we have it all! Unfornately trade is necessary. Would you want to do without sugar, how about rice, how about tires for your car, rubber isn't produced in North America, just refined and turned into consumables. We don't have every resource in each country we have to trade to aquire them. We will never be self sufficant unless, you wish to deprive citizens of their wants and only allow them to have their basic needs met clothing food water, shelter, and absolutely no choice. Not my idea of a decent life, we have seen that type of lifestyle, and would you be willing to give up all we have to live in the old soviet life style. Bread lines little to no conviences. I doubt you will find many people willing to give up the lifestyle they have now. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.