capricorn Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 All that's left of a movement like that is the dimwitted,bullying ideologues.The current version of conservativism is almost at an end when this is best they can come up with to "intellectually" support their position....What a dead end ideology.... How do you explain the pathetic showing of the Liberal party in the last election? Perhaps a dead end ideology has something to do with it. Or do you, like other Liberal apologists, blame it all on Dion? As for the NDP, how do you explain that they have never come close to forming the official opposition? Now there's a party suffering from dead end ideology if I've ever seen one. Consider those points before you predict the imminent collapse of conservatism in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Or do you, like other Liberal apologists, blame it all on Dion? It was quite clearly Dion and to a lesser extent, the Green Shift. If you look at the election numbers, most Liberal voters simply didn't show up at the polls. There's no reason to believe that will continue. I have no doubt that the Liberal party will return to power in the not too distant future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I think provinces usually have some kind of regulation on the subject. All the more reason to avoid the issue at the federal level. The last thing we need is two-tiered abortion processes and regulations in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 You got to love the conservative revulsion to all things intellectual.This is why the deep thinkers of conservativism in North America are folks like Michael Savage,Sean Hannity,Anne Coulter,Rachel Marsden,Rush Limbaugh,Sarah Palin,and,..ahem...Donald S. Cherry... All that's left of a movement like that is the dimwitted,bullying ideologues.The current version of conservativism is almost at an end when this is best they can come up with to "intellectually" support their position....What a dead end ideology.... I think it's important to note that the folks you list aren't really conservatives in my books. They are, at best performers, or more often demagogues and social reactionaries. Genuine conservatism in Canada and the US has been overran by a combination of reactionaries and religious fanatics. Real live conservatives and Libertarians (not that I think much of Libertarians) are damned hard to find on the airwaves, because they have little in common with the modern "conservative" movement. These guys are profoundly anti-elitist beyond any reason. It's one thing to say leaders should have the common touch, but to actual condemn someone for being an academic who has lived and worked elsewhere is ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 All the more reason to avoid the issue at the federal level. The last thing we need is two-tiered abortion processes and regulations in this country. There already is a two tiered abortion system...one for the fools who actually think that an abortion "provider" actually provides something - - - and a second system that says - abortion is a wonderful choice that will improve your life - we ignore those idiots. Actually there are those that abort out of sheer spite - as a punishment of men and as a way of being an exceptable piece of social garbage...frankly I have two daughters of age and when they go to the doctor - they are always asked if they are pregnant - as if it were a horrible disease...both daughters are insulted by the negative attitude and the enforced breeding programs they attempt to instill..or shall I say the non- breeding agenda of some grand wizards who actually believe they are gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 It was quite clearly Dion and to a lesser extent, the Green Shift. If you look at the election numbers, most Liberal voters simply didn't show up at the polls. There's no reason to believe that will continue. You cannot divorce Dion and the green shift from the Liberal party. The party chose Dion and Dion chose the green shift. Both factors formed part of the ideology the party selected. They steered away from the tried and true, and payed the price. Let's see where Ignatieff takes it. I have no doubt that the Liberal party will return to power in the not too distant future. Is that in 4 or 6 months, one year, what? The future starts now. If Ignatieff doesn't distance himself from the coalition I think it will be much later than sooner. Plus, Ignatieff has not been tested. He has not yet made one appearance as Opposition leader in the H of C. Canadians don't know Ignatieff. A relationship with voters cannot be built overnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 There already is a two tiered abortion system...one for the fools who actually think that an abortion "provider" actually provides something - - - and a second system that says - abortion is a wonderful choice that will improve your life - Perhaps you could provide some examples of organizations that do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Perhaps you could provide some examples of organizations that do that. Oh my goodness.....I forgot..... abortion is a natural process in the brave new world you so embrace. Do you know how many 40 year old woman who bought into this system are now living alone with dogs? The city is full of these females that were promised the magic of choice...and all of them quietly regret being childless and without proper husbands and most are to proud to admit they got sucked into this plan of controlled breeding - also - there are lots of men in their 30s and 40s who thought they were so cool by being supporters of abortion and thousands of them now sit in embarassment at the bar that they are not fathers. I knew one fool back in the 70s who got a visectomy..."because the world was over populated" - wonder what that looser is doing these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I think it's important to note that the folks you list aren't really conservatives in my books. They are, at best performers, or more often demagogues and social reactionaries. Genuine conservatism in Canada and the US has been overran by a combination of reactionaries and religious fanatics. Real live conservatives and Libertarians (not that I think much of Libertarians) are damned hard to find on the airwaves, because they have little in common with the modern "conservative" movement. These guys are profoundly anti-elitist beyond any reason. It's one thing to say leaders should have the common touch, but to actual condemn someone for being an academic who has lived and worked elsewhere is ludicrous. Agreed...The problem,as I see it,is that we no longer have politicians who agree to disagree and try to find the common ground(someone like Bill Davis in Ontario,for example)Unfortunately,we have ideologically bound buffoons masquerading as intellectuals on either side,shouting at each other and calling each other names.In other words,it's been a long time since someone tried to truly find the "Radical Centre".It's strange becasue I believe most people to be either small c consewrvatives or small l liberals.That is to say,most of the populous is in the middle and can generally agree with each other.These political parties that we elect have highjacked by ideological kooks on either side of the spectrum and don't really represent anyone,other than ideologues.Conservativism and liberalism are not static ideologies..for example..Conservativism in Ontario is far less strident,and more centrist,than conservativism from the prairies.And socially democratic policies from Eastern parts of the country are not as liberal as alot of urban liberals would like to see.Unfortunately,these parties don't properly represent that fluidity. As for the the general revulsion for intellectualism that modern conservativism has,I don't understand it.I think someone like David Brooks,who writed for the New York Times is a fairly sound minded conservative.He's a conservative that can make a reasoned argument by finding the middle ground.Unfortunately,the average rank and file conservative would rather listen to an ill informed idiot like Anne Coulter,or simply bitter buffoons like Michael Savage.Even more unsettling is the fact that,instead of the likes of Brooks being the voice conservative people react to,they'd rather react to simpletons like Palin...or Cherry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 The CPC have been misleading you pro-life supporters for a long time..... I expect it to continue and I expect you to keep on biting. I may run myself one of these days, you just never know. I'm a very smooth public speaker don'cha'know. Wouldn't that just sting. A union mouth piece running as a Tory and not the NDP...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Oh my goodness.....I forgot..... abortion is a natural process in the brave new world you so embrace. Do you know how many 40 year old woman who bought into this system are now living alone with dogs? The city is full of these females that were promised the magic of choice...and all of them quietly regret being childless and without proper husbands and most are to proud to admit they got sucked into this plan of controlled breeding - also - there are lots of men in their 30s and 40s who thought they were so cool by being supporters of abortion and thousands of them now sit in embarassment at the bar that they are not fathers. I knew one fool back in the 70s who got a visectomy..."because the world was over populated" - wonder what that looser is doing these days? You didn't answer my question. I want the names of pro-choice organizations that say abortion is good and wonderful. I realize that you, being more than likely insane, have a hard time concentrating on one thing at a time, but I don't give a crap about your meandering word salads, I want the names of the organizations that say abortion is good and wonderful? Think you can chug back enough antipsychotics and Prozak to keep focused and answer the question I asked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drea Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) Being childless does not make one a "loser". And all women over 40 are not dried up old hags that have been used up. (Trust me on this sweetheart) Not all women want to be mothers. Not all men want to be fathers. In fact some men and women, who are parents, shouldn’t be. There is more to life than breeding for the sake of breeding Oleg. Sex for the sake of sex -- now that I can live with! edited to add: Hee Hee -- "meandering word salad" -- excellent! Edited December 30, 2008 by Drea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Being childless does not make one a “loser”.And all women over 40 are not dried up old hags that have been used up. (Trust me on this sweetheart) Not all women want to be mothers. Not all men want to be fathers. In fact some men and women, who are parents, shouldn’t be. There is more to life than breeding for the sake of breeding Oleg. Sex for the sake of sex… now that I can live with! Yes it does - the only wealth is a partner in life - and the second great wealth are off spring...so the definition of poor is childless. - people have been having children for 50 thousand years...and I guess none of those dumb primatives should have been parents - maybe you are right - and if they had the ability to destroy their lineage through industrial style abortion - smiling you would probably not be here....It's just a bad idea - Sex for sex sake is re-creational - but when people are young they should not be discouraged from having creational sex...it's un-natural to have the state own your body and dictate that you should not breed....This conditioning of westerners is real stupid ......and - All men do want to be fathers - but because of the economic system we have set up they are afraid to be fathers - and woman are afraid to be mothers because they have no protectors no real husbands - just fearful worms called males. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Harper+stiff+...4050/story.html"In the face of dissension within the party, Stephen Harper's Conservative government is reiterating its commitment to not reopen the debate on abortion." Guess that's that. I'd be surprised if the Tories go back on this if they get a majority (not like they haven't gone back on a number of promises already). I say so for several reasond. First, even though more people are pro-choice than not, the number of prolifers in Canada is relatively high:* In a Léger poll taken January 2002, 47% of respondents said abortion was "not immoral," while 41.8% said it was. Furthermore, most of the pro-lifers are within the western provinces which make up a good chunk of Harper's base: Among provinces, British Columbia and Quebec have the highest percentage who are pro-choice, and the Prairies have the highest percentage who are pro-life. Given these statistics, I think the Harper Tories will at least make an effort to appease their base, even if nothing (or very little) comes from the reintroduction of the Bill. By 'very little' I mean that the changes will not include complete ban of abortion, only restrictions will be implemented. And the reason I don't think much will come of it, is that there is a big gap between pro-life and anti-choice in Canada: In a Gallup Canada poll taken April 2005, 52% of respondents say they would like to see Canadian abortion laws "remain the same," 20% say they would like the laws to be "less strict," while 24% say they would like the laws to be "more strict." Another interesting statistic which is kind of irrelevant to this particular thread, but interesting nonetheless: In a poll conducted by the National Post in November 2002, 78% of respondents answered "yes" to the question: "Should women have complete freedom on their decision to have an abortion?". *All the figures in this post have been taken from here: Edited December 30, 2008 by BC_chick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I may run myself one of these days, you just never know. I'm a very smooth public speaker don'cha'know. Wouldn't that just sting. A union mouth piece running as a Tory and not the NDP...lol And on the off chance if you're in a riding still of that frame of mind to select a raving mouth-foaming uber religious conservative, expect your first phone call from Party HQ congratulating you also stating that if you want to remain the candidate you're going to keep your mouth shut. I mean, that's basically what's happened in the last two elections, particularly with those apt to say embarrassing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Just intelligent people who are smart enough to know about the choice of abortion...abort....Ironic - in time all we will have is slavish stupid people inhabiting Canada - I guess that's what the power that be want - The elite do not abort - and the elite don't like people smarter than them - so abortion is just a perfect long term plan to maintain the status quo...wierd system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I may run myself one of these days, you just never know. I'm a very smooth public speaker don'cha'know. Wouldn't that just sting. A union mouth piece running as a Tory and not the NDP...lol Interesting...What is your opinion on...say...So called "Right to Work" legislation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Interesting...What is your opinion on...say...So called "Right to Work" legislation? If it ever passed I would consider working in a union shop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stignasty Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) There's no need to waste a perfectly fine wedge issue like abortion when we have the separatist card already in play. Edited December 30, 2008 by stignasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Unfortunately it would'nt be uionized much longer.In my trade I've worked both...Union is MUCH better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Just intelligent people who are smart enough to know about the choice of abortion...abort....Ironic - in time all we will have is slavish stupid people inhabiting Canada - I guess that's what the power that be want - The elite do not abort - and the elite don't like people smarter than them - so abortion is just a perfect long term plan to maintain the status quo...wierd system. I take it you're not going to answer my question about what organizations are encouraging abortions as good and wonderful things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I take it you're not going to answer my question about what organizations are encouraging abortions as good and wonderful things. What are Pro-Choice Org's saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted December 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 As things stand, women can have an abortion anytime, anywhere and for any reason they want. What will bringing forward abortion legislation accomplish? All it would do is stir up a hornet's nest. Leave it alone and let women struggle with their conscience over their own situation. My conscience is busy with other matters. Excellent Capricorn. Prohibition of anything never works. If they can't get a legal abortion there's always Dr. Coathanger or some sidestreet butcher. The decision to terminate a pregnancy is a personal one and until men can get pregnant they have no vote in the matter. That ship has sailed so let's move on. However, there are still many MPs who were elected to change the laws. They thought the Conservatives could deliver on those promises so it's going to be tough for them to go back to their constituents and tell them that it's now out of their grasp. If there's another election I don't think Harper will be the Party leader. He's failed on everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 However, there are still many MPs who were elected to change the laws. They thought the Conservatives could deliver on those promises so it's going to be tough for them to go back to their constituents and tell them that it's now out of their grasp. If there's another election I don't think Harper will be the Party leader. He's failed on everything. Anybody that seriously thought Harper was going to reopen the abortion debate in the Commons is in serious need of a psychiatrist, or at the very least of some IQ-boosting herbal remedies. Harper's job as leader is to win elections, not to deliver on every policy point that the party dreams up. He'd lose his job a lot quicker if he opened up the abortion debate now and enough Canadians say "F--- you!" and backed the coalition, and the Conservatives were defeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 If they open up the abortion debate,they can kiss the tiny toe hold the Con's think they have Ontario by good bye...Welcome to opposition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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