Three More Soldiers Killed

[Ontario Loyalist]

If Al Qaeda gets its boots back in Afghanistan, we're back in the mess we were in before 2001. If nothing else, we're basically keeping the Taliban from becoming a branch of international Islamist terrorism.

Yes, nothing like occupying a country and repeatedly bombing civilians to stop the growth and spread of terrorism.

There are several sure ways to protect Canada from terrorism: don't let the type of people who could potentially become terrorists into the country, better airport security, much more competant intelligence and covert counter-terrorist activities. Since the latter are more preventative and less showy, I suppose I'll just have to keep dreaming...

[Ontario Loyalist]

being in Afghanistan also shows that NATO means business.. We have a defensive pact, so if you mess with us..

All it's shown is that the member countries are reluctant to abide by its mandate when it doesn't exactly adhere to the organization's original mandate and the member countries are serving as a proxy army for American foreign policy...

[Ontario Loyalist]

patience is a virtue young grasshopper. I can and will give you an answer that directly contradicts the drivel quoted above and I will source it too. ( i know, how novel eh?)

source:

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/art...mp;nid=&id=

Now, can you back up your stuff or are you just interested in making things up as you go along?

why, you do apparently.

You cite a 2 year-old site that clearly indicates that approval is "declining".

"But the numbers expressing strong approval are declining. The percentage rating Karzai very favorably has dropped 13 points from 68 percent in November/December 2005 to 55 percent in November 2006."

So what is the public opinion RIGHT NOW, Mr. Source It Too???????

[ToadBrother]

Yes, nothing like occupying a country and repeatedly bombing civilians to stop the growth and spread of terrorism.

It's about depriving Al Qaeda of the one friendly country it had, and maybe bringing some manner of peace to the region.

There are several sure ways to protect Canada from terrorism: don't let the type of people who could potentially become terrorists into the country,

And who is that precisely?

better airport security, much more competant intelligence and covert counter-terrorist activities. Since the latter are more preventative and less showy, I suppose I'll just have to keep dreaming...

Short of building very large walls, the terrorists are going to get in if they're bound and determined.

[speaker]

You do know that 'Shock and Awe' was done in Iraq, not in Afghanistan, correct?

I happen to think we are building our good name by being in Afghanistan.

Funny you would think that is tarnishing it somehow.

Well, as they say, when the going get's tough, the weak give up.

I don't know about that. Shock and Awe may have been in Iraq but it's precursor would have been shock and awe in Afghanistan, shokanaw in Viet Nam, and blitzkreig in Poland, I wonder what comes next... SHOCK! AND! AWE! probably. The results just get worse and worse.

I don't think our support for that kind of mentality is a big win for our name internationally.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't think our support for that kind of mentality is a big win for our name internationally.

And why is that important....brownie points?

[White Doors]

I'm no Leftist, and I'm no rightist. I'm me!

I've read a bit on history, and to my mind, peacekeeping is really only applicable and narrow band of situations, not as a general principle for conflicts. It proved ridiculously ineffective in the Balkans, where, if anyone had had the guts, they would have marched three or four divisions into the country along with carpet bombing the mountainous regions. Ugly, destructive and murderous, yes, but when the US finally grew tired of those crazy bastards, they had Serbia on its knees with a strictly aerial campaign in no time (of course, since then, Kosovo has become a mess, because you do need, after all, ground forces to actual enforce peace, law and order).

Exactly, ever wonder why there were no chants to bring the troops home from Cypruss?

lol - They have been there for 30 odd years!

[White Doors]

You cite a 2 year-old site that clearly indicates that approval is "declining".

"But the numbers expressing strong approval are declining. The percentage rating Karzai very favorably has dropped 13 points from 68 percent in November/December 2005 to 55 percent in November 2006."

So what is the public opinion RIGHT NOW, Mr. Source It Too???????

Irrelevant - you said that Afghani's did not want us there. I have proven that to be FALSE.

Ergo, you were and are wrong. If you have a study to show that contradicts this, fine. post it.

put up or shut up bud. This isn't elementary school, you are expected to back up your assertions.

[White Doors]

I don't know about that. Shock and Awe may have been in Iraq but it's precursor would have been shock and awe in Afghanistan, shokanaw in Viet Nam, and blitzkreig in Poland, I wonder what comes next... SHOCK! AND! AWE! probably. The results just get worse and worse.

I don't think our support for that kind of mentality is a big win for our name internationally.

That's so awesome that you compare the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq to that of Hitler attacking Poland!

haha

and worse and worse? You think the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq are worse than WW2???

seriously?

hahahaha

[Ontario Loyalist]

Irrelevant - you said that Afghani's did not want us there. I have proven that to be FALSE.

Ergo, you were and are wrong. If you have a study to show that contradicts this, fine. post it.

put up or shut up bud. This isn't elementary school, you are expected to back up your assertions.

Yeah, it's kind of relevant when you use a two year old reference that contradicts your assertion... I think the onus is still on you to provide something current before this discussion can proceed in a productive manner. Frankly, I'm not interested in engaging a discussion with you which revolves around your making personal attacks in an effort to cover the fact that you were WRONG.

[M.Dancer]

Frankly, I'm not interested in engaging a discussion with you which revolves around your making personal attacks in an effort to cover the fact that you were WRONG.

Here, one year old...

A new poll of nearly 1,600 Afghans shows the majority feel safer than they did five years ago, and approve of the direction their country is taking, thanks to the presence of international security forces from countries such as Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/10/18/afghan-poll.html

And one hot off the press...

More than two-thirds (68 percent) say they are satisfied with the way democracy is working in Afghanistan and the vast majority of those polled (84 percent) express support for the principle of equal rights under the law regardless of gender, ethnicity or religion.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/24/opi...dinderfurth.php

[Oleg Bach]

That's so awesome that you compare the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq to that of Hitler attacking Poland!

haha

and worse and worse? You think the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq are worse than WW2???

seriously?

hahahaha

Afghanistan is not fit to be called a war. WW2 was a war - where nations literally fought for their existance..they were under attack and desperately attempted to repel the invaders - with MILLIONS of lives lost...they did not carefully package up individual dead soldiers in expenive caskets that send them one at a time to the autopsy room in Toronto - for the curious to examine...this mission is a mistake - Both of my parents stood in the centre of Europe and watch all of civilzation be detroyed - This Afghani mission is childs play that simply kills children - and very very young men - just to please the Americans - who don't give a shit about us.

[White Doors]

Frankly, I'm not interested in engaging a discussion with you in which I have been proven wrong in an effort to cover the fact that I was grossly misinformed and don't give a hoot about facts if they do not fit my preconceived notions of what I think.

~fixed~

[White Doors]

Thanks Dancer

[Oleg Bach]

~fixed~

That's it? The dialogue stops? Remind me when I am prime minister not to post you two in a diplomatic position.

[speaker]

That's so awesome that you compare the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq to that of Hitler attacking Poland!

haha

and worse and worse? You think the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq are worse than WW2???

seriously?

hahahaha

I want to point out that shock and awe have not continued for the years of the afghan war, just as Blitzkreig was not the only strategy used by the Nazis. Try and stay with the discussion.

[White Doors]

I want to point out that shock and awe have not continued for the years of the afghan war, just as Blitzkreig was not the only strategy used by the Nazis. Try and stay with the discussion.

What discussion? The one that you are having with yourself in which you demonstrate to all that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about?

Oh yeah...

K

[White Doors]

Yeah, it's kind of relevant when you use a two year old reference that contradicts your assertion... I think the onus is still on you to provide something current before this discussion can proceed in a productive manner. Frankly, I'm not interested in engaging a discussion with you which revolves around your making personal attacks in an effort to cover the fact that you were WRONG.

K, You don't give me 2 hours to respond and you run away with your tail between your legs for a whole day?

lol

[Ontario Loyalist]

~fixed~

I'm sorry, but I don't recall writing that. Did you change what I wrote to misrepresent my argument? Like I said, I'm not interested in engaging in a petty spat, the sole purpose of which is to distract from the fact that you are wrong.

Just as a reminder, acording to forum rules:

"POSTING CONTENT

All posts must contain some aspect of an argument or attempt to stimulate discussion."

Altering another persons post and then typing "~fixed~" I believe falls into this category.

[Ontario Loyalist]

K, You don't give me 2 hours to respond and you run away with your tail between your legs for a whole day?

lol

see post #69 re: POSTING CONTENT.

[Ontario Loyalist]

And one hot off the press...

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/24/opi...dinderfurth.php

Oh, wait a second...

Thirty-eight percent of those polled say the country is moving in the right direction; 32 percent in the wrong direction. Two years ago those numbers were 44 percent and 21 percent, reflecting a clear trend towards greater pessimism.

Here's a link to the actual survey:

http://www.asiafoundation.org/country/afgh...n/2008-poll.php

right direction:

2004 - 64%

2008 - 38%

wrong direction:

2004 - 11%

2008 - 32%

Oh, yeah, things are getting better...

[moderateamericain]

MR Canada, it a good thing you aren't our Mr Canada because if the US drops a nuke on any part of the Middle-East that Russia, China, Pakistan and all those countries that also have nukes would deliver one to NA??? Nuking is NOT the answer.

If we dropped a Nuke on Afghanistan China and Russia would not even bat an eye. O there would be all sorts of Upheavel in the UN and blah blah blah. But nobody would dare risk there nation over muslims.

[White Doors]

see post #69 re: POSTING CONTENT.

whatever dude, you said 'they don't want us there' and they do.

ergo you are wrong. My 5 year old nieve could figure it out.

[White Doors]

Oh, wait a second...

Here's a link to the actual survey:

http://www.asiafoundation.org/country/afgh...n/2008-poll.php

right direction:

2004 - 64%

2008 - 38%

wrong direction:

2004 - 11%

2008 - 32%

Oh, yeah, things are getting better...

exactly, a clear majority think we are going in the RIGHT direction.

thanks for making my point.

[Ontario Loyalist]

exactly, a clear majority think we are going in the RIGHT direction.

thanks for making my point.

38% isn't a majority--just ask Stephen Harper...

notice, too, when in response to a questions about going in the "right direction" the figure declines from 64% to 38%, this means that fewer people think that the country is going in the "right direction". Feel free to have your 5 year old explain it to you if you still don't get it... you may also want to ask him/her for a few pointers on maturity, because you're now starting to act quite ridiculous...