Taliban Rising

[bush_cheney2004]

.....it's good to let the common guy know that the big dogs are not much smarter than they are - time to stop the idolizing of other human beings and stand tall as a human being and know - that the top dog is no better than the bottom one.

Preach Brutha preach! Much better to idolize a golden calf.

[Sir Bandelot]

Hell, if we knew it would be this easy, President Bush would have gone Obama glam long ago. Not a damn thing has changed, but now it is raining Nobels....schweeeeeeeet !

The media IS the message.

[jbg]

This is a quagmire, a bleepin quagmire...

Especially if we keep fighting with both hands tied behind our backs.

[wyly]

Good..you admit that your claim was false. I don't need to look anything up, having mastered the M1911 .45 service pistol many years ago and understanding exactly how/why it came into existence.

Save that tearful genocide schtick for some other sucker.

If they are the enemy.....yes. Termination with extreme prejudice. Give 'em all the AA missiles you want to satisfy some twisted game of deja vu, but the outcome would not be the same, because NATO's purpose is not the same.

maybe you should extend your genocide is good claim to the holocaust as well, now that you've revealed to everyone here what type of person you are no need to hide it anymore...

my claim holds true...an idea cannot be defeated by force unless you exterminate the opponent...and the Phillipines has it's independence, the "idea" could not be defeated...only the Afghans and Taliban can end the conflict not NATO...

[bush_cheney2004]

maybe you should extend your genocide is good claim to the holocaust as well, now that you've revealed to everyone here what type of person you are no need to hide it anymore...

I have never hidden anything...after more than 11,000 posts. "Revealed" is so.....naive.

my claim holds true...an idea cannot be defeated by force unless you exterminate the opponent...and the Phillipines has it's independence, the "idea" could not be defeated...only the Afghans and Taliban can end the conflict not NATO...

Whatever you say champ...the idea was exterminated. Ever been to the PI (Philippines) ??

[Sir Bandelot]

We are already defeated, not by the Taliban but by corruption in the Afghan government, and corruption in some of our own!

French troops killed after Italy hushes up paying ‘bribes’ to Taleban

In the months before the French soldiers arrived in mid-2008, the Italian secret service had been paying tens of thousands of dollars to Taleban commanders and local warlords to keep the area quiet, The Times has learnt. The clandestine payments, whose existence was hidden from the incoming French forces, were disclosed by Western military officials.

US intelligence officials were flabbergasted when they found out through intercepted telephone conversations that the Italians had also been buying off militants, notably in Herat province in the far west.

A number of high-ranking officers in Nato have told The Times that payments were subsequently discovered to have been made in the Sarobi area as well.

Its the insidious nature of our morally bankrupt system. political intrigue and manipulations, espionage and false intelligence, that is bringing us down.

The denials from Italy are coming loud and strong, but not from NATO

Italy denies paying off Taliban

NATO spokesman James Appathurai refused to comment on the report.

The U.S. Embassy in Rome declined to comment on the Times report.

-----------------------

Yet if this is true, it also says something else. Before this incident Italy was praised for having made progress in infrastructure developments and reducing violence in the regions they covered. They seem to have done this without hardly firing a shot. So the Taliban can be made to cooperate, with money. If Italy was content to do that, and they made actual progress in their assigned regions, they should be proud of their achievement, not hide it. Why can't we do that in other places as well.

[Shady]

We are already defeated, not by the Taliban but by corruption in the Afghan government, and corruption in some of our own!

You can barely contain your Taliban-like glee. It's quite disgusting.

[Sir Bandelot]

You can barely contain your Taliban-like glee. It's quite disgusting.

I know this is bad news, but you read me wrong.

Don't kill the messenger, Brutus

[Shady]

I know this is bad news, but you read me wrong.

Don't kill the messenger, Brutus

I'm not. But what's your point? Yes, Italy shouldn't have done that.

[GostHacked]

You can barely contain your Taliban-like glee. It's quite disgusting.

Reality sucks, and when you realize that there is wide corruption going on in the Afghan government, how the hell are we to support this anymore? We are now supporting a corrupt Afghan government with money and military. This is a step backwards, not forwards.

No one takes glee in this.

[Sir Bandelot]

But what's your point? Yes, Italy shouldn't have done that.

No kidding, Einstein.

In addition to the points I listed in my post, one could also ask the question, if Italy was paying off insurgents, then how many coalition troops died because of the money they received. Maybe we don't want Italy to be in our war any more, they should take their toys and go home.

On the other hand maybe Italy has got it RIGHT. They were given accolades for running a successful campaign (before this news came out) and if this is true, it demonstrates results coming from a different approach. That possibility needs to be analyzed, by people with critical thinking skills. So maybe Italy are actually a bunch of geniuses.

Like you...

[Sir Bandelot]

Taliban infiltrating Afghan forces

The Taliban have infiltrated the Afghan army and police, a recently-retired United Nations official has warned.

Dr Antonio Costa, who ran the UN Office on Drugs and Crime until August, says enemy infiltrators are already in place.

"We have plenty of evidence we had a number of suicide attacks carried out by people who had been in the army, trusted because they were affiliated," Dr Costa told the BBC.

"Certainly there are sleeping cells, certainly there are individuals who are waiting for instruction to hit and that is one of the biggest problem, which we have seen in Afghanistan as of late."

Dr Costa's comments come as the coalition is preparing to hand over control of the country's security to Afghan forces by 2014, the BBC's Gerry Northam reports.

There are fears that the Taliban are taking the opportunity to enlist insurgents into the ranks.

Nothing but bad news on the Afghani situation. This war is essentially over. Troops are now in the long, drawn out stage of pulling out and we have not been victorious. We may have affected some small change, such as improving womens rights in certain ways. Maybe that will put them on the road to more positive reforms in the years to come. But it's far from certain whether anything useful has been accomplished. President Karzai is making overtures to include the Taliban as a legitimate part of the Afghanistan government. And with this news today we see, the Taliban have influence in the army, and the police. This is where we have been deceived by our g9overnments and western media- there's no substantial difference between the Taliban, and most anyone else in Afghanistan society. The people ARE the Taliban.

Like my pappy used to say, there's a polecat in the hen-house

[Sir Bandelot]

Taliban, Afghan leaders in talks to end war

The Post reported that its sources said the Quetta Shura has begun to talk about a comprehensive agreement that would include participation of Taliban figures in the government and the withdrawal of U.S. and NATO troops.

End of story... Taliban in power again, girls schools closed. Total spent, unknown billions. Total lives lost, unknown. Total accomplished, zero.

[M.Dancer]

Taliban, Afghan leaders in talks to end war

The Post reported that its sources said the Quetta Shura has begun to talk about a comprehensive agreement that would include participation of Taliban figures in the government and the withdrawal of U.S. and NATO troops.

End of story... Taliban in power again, girls schools closed. Total spent, unknown billions. Total lives lost, unknown. Total accomplished, zero.

Who has said the Taliban will be in power, besides you? Heck, we even have the fringe Greens participating in Government....yet they don't have power...

[GostHacked]

Who has said the Taliban will be in power, besides you? Heck, we even have the fringe Greens participating in Government....yet they don't have power...

I guess you have not been paying attention. Karzai has threatened to quit politics altogether. This is what we are defending? What a waste.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/04/05/karzai-kandahar.html

Afghan President Hamid Karzai twice threatened to quit politics and join the Taliban if the West continued to pressure him to enact reforms, legislators said Monday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36178710/ more of the same.

Even a US Senator is calling for the Taliban to join the government.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-408277/U-S-senate-leader-calls-Taliban-join-Afghan-government.html

The war in Afghanistan can never be won and so efforts should instead be concentrated on bringing the Taliban into the Afghan government claims Bill Frist, leader of the U.S. Senate.

Frist said there are too many Taliban fighters with too much popular support to be defeated by military means.

"You need to bring them into a more transparent type of government," Frist said during a brief visit to a military base in the southern Taliban stronghold of Qalat. "And if that's accomplished we'll be successful."

But Frist said any decision to ask the Taliban to join the government would have to be made by Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

He said the only way to win the war was to "assimilate people who call themselves Taliban into a larger, more representative government."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7661845.stm

Newspapers are writing about it and Afghan officials and foreign diplomats are discussing it - talks with the Taleban.

Now President Hamid Karzai's own brother has confirmed a BBC report that he met former members of the Taleban in Saudi Arabia last month as part of a first step towards peace talks.

The conflict in Afghanistan has been running now for seven years and by almost every indicator, the security situation is getting worse.

There has been an unmistakable mood shift in the Afghan capital Kabul and the notion of reconciliation with the fundamentalist Islamic movement appears to be gathering momentum as a way of reining in the violence.

Edited October 6, 2010 by GostHacked

[M.Dancer]

I guess you have not been paying attention.

Actually it might be you not paying attention. The push to incorporate and reform soft linbe Taliban has been ongoing from day 1. A political solution has always been part of the plan. As far as Karzai goes, he is not unreplaceable and would have a very sort shelf life as the Taliban.

[bloodyminded]

Actually it might be you not paying attention. The push to incorporate and reform soft linbe Taliban has been ongoing from day 1.

If this is true, it wasn't publically admitted by any of the political leaderships involved.

Which means they were lying to the public about the war's very aims from the beginning.

That's if you're correct.

[Peter F]

If this is true, it wasn't publically admitted by any of the political leaderships involved.

Which means they were lying to the public about the war's very aims from the beginning.

That's if you're correct.

I think its true. Up until recently it has been taboo to suggest "compromise" - by us non-afghan folks anyways. The Canadian government and ISAF and NATO have only declared that they are involved in Afghanistan to provide security to the democratically elected government until such time as that government can go it alone.

However the propoganda machine has certainly been clunking along full time about never negotiating anything. Its all been Victory or Death! until recent months and now all that rhetoric is being toned down a bit. We remember all the references to "Taliban Jack" "Appeasement" "Rolling over" etc etc. But now that 2011 is drawing near the public must be prepped for the withdrawl.

[GostHacked]

Actually it might be you not paying attention. The push to incorporate and reform soft linbe Taliban has been ongoing from day 1. A political solution has always been part of the plan. As far as Karzai goes, he is not unreplaceable and would have a very sort shelf life as the Taliban.

No really? How could ANYONE miss that!

[M.Dancer]

No really? How could ANYONE miss that!

Given that they have been talking about a political solution that incorporates all the divergent elements of Afghanistan since 2001, I have to assume it is willful blindness.

[The_Squid]

I wonder if Harper will hang a large MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner...

The "mission" was a dismal failure. We are "cutting and running"... which is providing "aid and comfort to the enemy"...

Nice job Canada.

[M.Dancer]

I think its true. Up until recently it has been taboo to suggest "compromise" - by us non-afghan folks anyways. The Canadian government and ISAF and NATO have only declared that they are involved in Afghanistan to provide security to the democratically elected government until such time as that government can go it alone.

However the propoganda machine has certainly been clunking along full time about never negotiating anything. Its all been Victory or Death! until recent months and now all that rhetoric is being toned down a bit. We remember all the references to "Taliban Jack" "Appeasement" "Rolling over" etc etc. But now that 2011 is drawing near the public must be prepped for the withdrawl.

It certainly hasn't been taboo...a political solution and surrender are not synonyms, not is appeasement a political solution. And quite frankly, missile attacks on the Taliban are part of the political solution too...

Since day one the goal was a political solution, the only group unwilling to discuss the matter is the hardline Taliban whom it seems, maybe marginalized and sidelined in the process.

http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2001/10/08_annan_afghanistan.htm

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=2155

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,217198,00.html

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/stories/s415906.htm

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/EF14Ag01.html

...going back to the beginning...

[bloodyminded]

I think its true. Up until recently it has been taboo to suggest "compromise" - by us non-afghan folks anyways. The Canadian government and ISAF and NATO have only declared that they are involved in Afghanistan to provide security to the democratically elected government until such time as that government can go it alone.

However the propoganda machine has certainly been clunking along full time about never negotiating anything. Its all been Victory or Death! until recent months and now all that rhetoric is being toned down a bit. We remember all the references to "Taliban Jack" "Appeasement" "Rolling over" etc etc. But now that 2011 is drawing near the public must be prepped for the withdrawl.

Very well said.

And M. Dancer is trying to continue with the propaganda: "It was always stated...."

Which is flatly untrue. As he knows.

[Sir Bandelot]

The Globe and Mail recently quoted Lieutenant Colonel Gordon Corbould, a battle group commander in Kandahar, and Sergeant Tim Seeley, a civilian-military co-operation officer for Canada's Provincial Reconstruction Team, as saying that channels were being opened to moderate Taliban.[94] The Committee believes that this should be encouraged. Soldiers should be talking to all locals, including Taliban, finding out about their needs and using this to our advantage.

But Defence Minister Peter MacKay responded that these officials did not speak for the federal government: "We are not talking to the Taliban. We are not having direct discussions with terrorists. We won't, will not, that will not change," MacKay said.

parl.gc.ca/39

Canadian military officials in Afghanistan have been quoted as saying they're trying to engage in a dialogue with insurgents - a move that federal New Democrat Leader Jack Layton has long supported.

"I was pleased to hear that our military on the ground were looking at opening up lines of communication with the insurgents," Layton said Saturday while attending a provincial NDP convention in St. John's.

"Our party has always argued that we've got to carve out a path towards peace, it's got to involve some negotiations and discussions."

MacKay dismisses Taliban talks

Indeed.

[bloodyminded]

The Globe and Mail recently quoted Lieutenant Colonel Gordon Corbould, a battle group commander in Kandahar, and Sergeant Tim Seeley, a civilian-military co-operation officer for Canada's Provincial Reconstruction Team, as saying that channels were being opened to moderate Taliban.[94] The Committee believes that this should be encouraged. Soldiers should be talking to all locals, including Taliban, finding out about their needs and using this to our advantage.

But Defence Minister Peter MacKay responded that these officials did not speak for the federal government: "We are not talking to the Taliban. We are not having direct discussions with terrorists. We won't, will not, that will not change," MacKay said.

parl.gc.ca/39

Canadian military officials in Afghanistan have been quoted as saying they're trying to engage in a dialogue with insurgents - a move that federal New Democrat Leader Jack Layton has long supported.

"I was pleased to hear that our military on the ground were looking at opening up lines of communication with the insurgents," Layton said Saturday while attending a provincial NDP convention in St. John's.

"Our party has always argued that we've got to carve out a path towards peace, it's got to involve some negotiations and discussions."

MacKay dismisses Taliban talks

Indeed.

An excellent catch, Sir B. Your timing is perfect.

Now we can listen to M. Dancer explain why our government needs to lie to us about this, for our own good, I suppose.

Edited October 7, 2010 by bloodyminded