Taliban Rising

[Mr.Canada]

The taliban may decide to take power again once we leave and with it terrorist training camps with renewed vigor and hatred towards Canada. Canada must begin brainwashing the Afghan people. That and use some good old divide and conquer tech's.

[Sir Bandelot]

Although we are told everything is wonderful in Afghanistan, where our troops are showered with rose-petals every time they go out for a drive, it seems that the extremists are doing well in Pakistan:

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - A potentially troubling era dawned Sunday in Pakistan's Swat Valley, where a top Islamist militant leader, emboldened by a peace agreement with the federal government, laid out an ambitious plan to bring a "complete Islamic system" to the surrounding northwest region and the entire country.

Speaking to thousands of followers in an address aired live from Swat on national news channels, cleric Sufi Mohammed bluntly defied the constitution and federal judiciary, saying he would not allow any appeals to state courts under the system of sharia, or Islamic law, that will prevail there as a result of the peace accord signed by the president Tuesday.

"The Koran says that supporting an infidel system is a great sin," Mohammed said, referring to Pakistan's modern democratic institutions. He declared that in Swat, home to 1.5 million people, all "un-Islamic laws and customs will be abolished," and he suggested that the official imprimatur on the agreement would pave the way for sharia to be installed in other areas.

Mohammed's dramatic speech echoed a rousing sermon in Islamabad on Friday by another radical cleric, Maulana Abdul Aziz, who appeared at the Red Mosque in the capital after nearly two years in detention and urged several thousand chanting followers to launch a crusade for sharia nationwide.

Together, these rallying cries seemed to create an arc of radical religious energy between the turbulent, Taliban-plagued northwest region and the increasingly vulnerable federal capital, less than 100 miles to the east.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30299557/

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Taliban plagued? Sounds more like Taliban loved, as they moved into the SWAT valley a few months ago. Looks like this is what the people really want. They see democracy as part of the evils of the western "infidel system", that directly conflicts with their fundamental beliefs. And I have read several times elsewhere, there is no cultural disconnect between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

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Reason for edit: Added link

Edited April 21, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[Army Guy]

Sir Bandelot

Although we are told everything is wonderful in Afghanistan, where our troops are showered with rose-petals every time they go out for a drive, it seems that the extremists are doing well in Pakistan:

I'd be curous to know what media has been reporting that....unless rose petals can now take out LAV III ....I'd also like to clarify that Pakistan is not Afghanistan, and while they are both linked in this conflict they are very different in nature and culture, and people....one has not been subjected to over 30 years of war...one does not have NATO forces engaged in fighting....kind of like comparing apples and oranges don't you think...

Mr Canada.

The taliban may decide to take power again once we leave and with it terrorist training camps with renewed vigor and hatred towards Canada. Canada must begin brainwashing the Afghan people. That and use some good old divide and conquer tech's.

There seems to be this misconception that Canada will be leaving Afghan in 2011, it's wrong, Canadian military forces will be re roled, but there is no mention of leaving afghan or for that matter leaving Kanadar AO or what that new role may be...

[Sir Bandelot]

I'd be curous to know what media has been reporting that....unless rose petals can now take out LAV III ....I'd also like to clarify that Pakistan is not Afghanistan, and while they are both linked in this conflict they are very different in nature and culture, and people....one has not been subjected to over 30 years of war...one does not have NATO forces engaged in fighting....kind of like comparing apples and oranges don't you think...

No, I don't. The border between these two neighbouring countries is not controlled in some areas people freely migrate from one to the other. Some tribes span the borders, family have relatives living on either side. The religion and customs are shared. How does NATO forces fighting influence or change this? Certainly, they would view the pakis as their friends long before they welcome us.

The comment about rose petals alludes to our lying government media outlets that try to convince us they are making worthwhile progress in Afghanistan, and that the majority of ordinary citizens welcomes us. Yet Karzais own comments, and the enactment of certain laws which WERE passed and still remain in effect indicate that western ideas of equality are in conflict with their own cultural and moral values. We are talking about people who are somewhat like in the stone age compared to us, yet our naive government expects them to embrace democracy and womens rights. Why that is so important to Canada I still don't understand. And considering hundreds of other countries are equally harsh regimes, still begs the question.

So, more bad news about the Taliban rising. Excerpts of an article today-

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Taliban militants who implemented Islamic law in Pakistan's violence-plagued Swat Valley last week have now taken control of a neighboring district.

"Our strength is in the hundreds," said Moulana Mohammad Khalil, as heavily armed men openly patrolled the roads in pickup trucks, singing Islamic anthems. The militants had taken control of the area to ensure that Islamic law, or sharia, is properly imposed, Khalil said. Last week, the Taliban imposed sharia law in Swat Valley as part of a peace deal with the government. Under the Taliban's strict interpretation, the law prevents women from being seen in public without their husbands or fathers.

In the days after the government's April 13 decision to implement sharia law in Swat, pro-Taliban clerics have staged rallies in Swat and Islamabad. They have demanded the imposition of Islamic law across Pakistan and beyond. Speaking before an audience of tens of thousands in the Swat Valley town of Mingora on Sunday, cleric Sufi Muhammed declared democracy and Pakistan's judicial system "un-Islamic." A Taliban spokesman in Swat went a step further Tuesday, calling anyone opposed to his strict interpretation of Islam a non-Muslim. "Let the judges and the lawyers go to Islamic university," Muslim Khan said. After "they learn Islamic rules, Islamic regulation, they can continue to work."

Khan said if his vision of an Islamic society is fulfilled in Pakistan, terror mastermind Osama Bin Laden will be welcome to travel and live openly here. "Sure, he's a Muslim, he can go anywhere," Khan said.

Khan added that he would like to see sharia law implemented beyond Pakistan, even in America, a country he knows intimately. For four years, the Taliban spokesman lived in the United States, working as a painter near Boston, Massachusetts.

Taliban claims victory near Islamabad

Edited April 22, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[normanchateau]

OTTAWA — With Taliban militants marching on Islamabad and imperilling the safety of its nuclear arsenal, Defence Minister Peter MacKay says Pakistan is the most dangerous place on earth.

Canada is prepared to do its part to replicate in Pakistan what is now doctrine in Afghanistan: integrating development and diplomacy with military action.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/INTERVIEW...1772/story.html

Sounds like MacKay is preparing Canadians for our entry into Pakistan to fight the Taliban.

[Sir Bandelot]

Oh great.

By attacking the fundamentalists in their homeland, and doing so by "half-measures" we have angered the whole muslim populace, driving them right into the arms of the extremists.

By putting arrogant rich peoples kids in charge of a situation that they are incapable of handling. In other words incompetence, stupidity, even criminal negligence has brought us to this. Against the better advice of those who are educated in the history of the region, we shall reap what they have sown. Pandora.

[normanchateau]

Defence Minister Peter MacKay is pressuring the Pakistan government to address security issues at the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, urging them to stop the flow of weapons and terrorists between the two regions.

"This issue of free travel between the two countries, the crossing that allows for the transport of weapons, and the highly motivated terrorists that are coming into (Afghanistan) and killing Canadian soldiers, international soldiers and Afghan citizens, that's the concentrated effort that we all have to address," said MacKay.

Afghanistan was at one time, the "incubator for terrorism," a role that has since been taken over by Pakistan, MacKay said.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/World/2009...250376-sun.html

It is sounding more and more like MacKay is preparing Canadians for military action in Pakistan.

Goodbye Afghanistan, hello Pakistan.

[waldo]

There seems to be this misconception that Canada will be leaving Afghan in 2011, it's wrong, Canadian military forces will be re roled, but there is no mention of leaving afghan or for that matter leaving Kanadar AO or what that new role may be...

that misconception is fuelled by the repeated comments from Conservatives (Harper, MacKay, Cannon, etc.), that “the combat mission” will end in 2011. Little to nothing is/was ever stated/emphasized about Canada continuing a UNAMA support role targeted towards UN reconstruction and relief efforts.

that misconception is fuelled by the 2008 election campaign statements made by Harper as he attempted to garner Quebec votes… where Harper emphatically stated Canada would be leaving Afghanistan in 2011. In that regard Harper didn’t bother to “nuance” the combat versus reconstruction/relief support role distinction.

that misconception is fuelled by the recent Harper comments doubting the Afghan “insurgency” can be defeated.

of course, the dynamics at play suggest change is always possible… at some point today’s absent tactical plans will be disseminated; however, we should probably be reminded that the March 13, 2008 vote in Parliament that authorized the extension to 2011, somewhat narrowly defined that “new post-2011 Afghanistan role” to align with reconstruction and development contributions defined within that vote:

HOC vote - the Afghanistan extension - from Feb 2009 to July 2011

c- the government of Canada notify NATO that Canada will end its presence in Kandahar as of July 2011, and, as of that date, the redeployment of Canadian Forces troops out of Kandahar and their replacement by Afghan forces start as soon as possible, so that it will have been completed by December 2011;

that the government of Canada, together with our allies and the government of Afghanistan, must set firm targets and timelines for the training, equipping and paying of the Afghan National Army, the Afghan National Police, the members of the judicial system and the members of the correctional system;

that Canada’s contribution to the reconstruction and development of Afghanistan should:

a- be revamped and increased to strike a better balance between our military efforts and our development efforts in Afghanistan;

b- focus on our traditional strengths as a nation, particularly through the development of sound judicial and correctional systems and strong political institutions on the ground in Afghanistan and the pursuit of a greater role for Canada in addressing the chronic fresh water shortages in the country;

c- address the crippling issue of the narco-economy that consistently undermines progress in Afghanistan, through the pursuit of solutions that do not further alienate the goodwill of the local population;

[Army Guy]

Did'nt someone say that the GST was suppose to be scrapped....during election time was it not...damn i feel used....

It would not matter if we where delivering milk....in Afghan anything outside the front gate is a COMBAT MISSION...it requires heavily armed soldiers, armoured vehs, helo support, intel assets etc etc etc ....and thats outside of one of the largest military installations in Afghan....much larger than anything in Canada.....

So while our nations leaders have decided to call it balancing our military efforts and development efforts , to us soldiers we still get mounted up, with 50 lbs of combat supplies load enough explosives to destroy a small town or village and get ready to do battle with our friends the taliban....only difference is now we dig wells during the day, while they pioson them at night....and fight when we should meet....

We don't need a new role, or fancy rewording of the old one...what we need is someone with the balls to finish the job....and give us the support we need to do that, so we don't have to come back....

[Sir Bandelot]

We don't need a new role, or fancy rewording of the old one...what we need is someone with the balls to finish the job....and give us the support we need to do that, so we don't have to come back....

Thats going to be hard to do, when the citizens themselves in the region and through to Pakistan, don't want what we the west have to offer them. Their religious leaders and politicians are telling them that western values and democracy are against what the Koran teaches. Seems to me that without winning the co-called battle of hearts and minds, we will not be able to finish the job.

There's no way you can pound that into the people with fighting. Every colateral damage just feeds the ideological war used by the Taliban. Bombing them into the stone age does not work because, they are already in the stone age. The Afghanis will perservere, until we are tired of it and go home. Even here at home our mealy mouthed leaders are making noises of concession, appeasement, reconciliation. Sorry, army dude.

[Oleg Bach]

Try reading the Koran - it will give you a head ache..it's like getting smacked by an abusive husband dressed in drag with every turn of every page. It's a bastardized old document that was probably ill conceived to begin with..

Someone some where that calls themselves holy - who is not is enflaming the stupid peasants - If you go right to the top of the Taliban power structure - you will find "religious" leaders who when questioned if they answered honestly don't even really believe in God. The ALL MIGHTY is just that - all mighty and does not need or heed mortal assistance - their religious leaders are liars and power mongers.

[Oleg Bach]

If we and the Taliban truely believed in God and goodness - the conflict would end in a second - apparently this is a war waged by infidels - on both sides.

[waldo]

We don't need a new role, or fancy rewording of the old one...what we need is someone with the balls to finish the job....and give us the support we need to do that, so we don't have to come back....

clearly - serious introspection is required on all our parts... we need to reevaluate... re-strategize and "unleash the hound of heaven"! (ballsy enough, fer sure).

an oldie... but a goodie!

[Army Guy]

Thats going to be hard to do, when the citizens themselves in the region and through to Pakistan, don't want what we the west have to offer them. Their religious leaders and politicians are telling them that western values and democracy are against what the Koran teaches. Seems to me that without winning the co-called battle of hearts and minds, we will not be able to finish the job.

Have you talked to them, most that i've talked to just want peace, and to be able to feed thier families, a couple of thousand hard core Talibs want to be able to force thier will and thier form of religion on the masses....is that right...And yes some western Values and traditions go again'st thier religion buit so far they are working on that....

There's no way you can pound that into the people with fighting. Every colateral damage just feeds the ideological war used by the Taliban. Bombing them into the stone age does not work because, they are already in the stone age. The Afghanis will perservere, until we are tired of it and go home. Even here at home our mealy mouthed leaders are making noises of concession, appeasement, reconciliation. Sorry, army dude.

Colateral damage works both ways, every time bomber kills in a crowded market, every time a girl gets acid thrown in her face, every time they kill someone to terrorize a town or village....and while NATO mistakes make front page news ....we seem to forget to publish thier mistakes...They are not a stupid people they no the score, and while most tolerate us and our presence they know it would be far worse under Taiban rule....

And while our military makes gains in Afghan every day....it is up to someone else to fight on the home front....which we are doing very poorly....

it is one of the reasons i post here....but it has been a lost cause for a long while...people just do not have the interest, as it does not effect they in anyway....except a few tax dollars....

[Sir Bandelot]

McChrystals report shows some more bad news:

US commander says Taliban gaining upper hand: report

The top US military commander in Afghanistan says the Taliban have gained the upper hand in the country. General Stanley McChrystal told the Wall Street Journal in an interview the militant group was moving beyond its traditional strongholds in southern Afghanistan to threaten formerly stable areas in the north and west.

The militants are mounting sophisticated attacks that combine roadside bombs with ambushes by small teams of heavily armed militants, causing significant numbers of US fatalities, the general said, according to the report.

Some US military officials believe the Taliban have taken advantage of the US offensive in the northern Helmand province to infiltrate the southern city of Kandahar and set up shadow local governments and courts throughout the city, The Journal said.

Sounds like Obamas strategy of putting more emphasis on defending civilians is not working, and has only exacerbated the problem.

[Keepitsimple]

OTTAWA — With Taliban militants marching on Islamabad and imperilling the safety of its nuclear arsenal, Defence Minister Peter MacKay says Pakistan is the most dangerous place on earth.

Canada is prepared to do its part to replicate in Pakistan what is now doctrine in Afghanistan: integrating development and diplomacy with military action.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/INTERVIEW...1772/story.html

Sounds like MacKay is preparing Canadians for our entry into Pakistan to fight the Taliban.

That interview with MacKay is from April 24th. A lot has changed in Pakistan since then. Pakistan has at last clearly gone on the offensive and has the Taliban on the run - apparently with the popular support of the Pakistani people who are sick and tired of the Taliban's indiscriminate atrocities.

[FuzzyOnDetails]

"You can fight for democracy at home, but not in some foreign land." -- Billy Bragg

[Alta4ever]

"You can fight for democracy at home, but not in some foreign land." -- Billy Bragg

You should ask the dutch how they feel about our solders and their sacrifice for their freedom.

[jbg]

You should ask the dutch how they feel about our solders and their sacrifice for their freedom.

Do you mean the war to save Indonesia from Muslim savagery? Go here for a view of the finer points of Islam.

[Alta4ever]

Do you mean the war to save Indonesia from Muslim savagery? Go here for a view of the finer points of Islam.

I ment the liberation of Holland during WWII.

[jbg]

You should ask the dutch how they feel about our solders and their sacrifice for their freedom.

I ment the liberation of Holland during WWII.

I misread the post. The Canadian military has always fought valiantly and effectively for the cause of justice and freedom.

Edited August 13, 2009 by jbg

[FuzzyOnDetails]

You should ask the dutch how they feel about our solders and their sacrifice for their freedom.

Fair enough, point taken.

However, I suspect there is a bigger cultural divide in the case of Afghanistan.

[Alta4ever]

Fair enough, point taken.

However, I suspect there is a bigger cultural divide in the case of Afghanistan.

So they don't deserve to be liberated and have freedom like we enjoy because of a cultural divide?

[FuzzyOnDetails]

So they don't deserve to be liberated and have freedom like we enjoy because of a cultural divide?

I am saying the soldiers are less in touch with what the people there want. I don't know enough myself to be able to say.

[Alta4ever]

I am saying the soldiers are less in touch with what the people there want. I don't know enough myself to be able to say.

As long as the people there want their freedom, its worth while.