Could this all be part of Harper's plan?

Oleg Bach · December 2, 2008

Will Harper turtle? Will we see Harper hide with his tail between his legs for 8 weeks?
c'mon Harper - be a man, not a turtle!

Harper is a hockey playing turtle in full armor. He will hide his head for a bit then body check them into the boards from behind.

Topaz · December 2, 2008

IF Harper was an OWL, he play it smart and let the oppositions take over the government and seat back and see what happens until Oct./09 and then have an election. Something tells me Harper really hates to lose and so he may just try to play dirtier than ever. I think this though will look bad on him since he also made deals with the NDP and the Bloc in 2004 and so whatever they say Harper did first!

johhny · December 2, 2008

IF Harper was an OWL, he play it smart and let the oppositions take over the government and seat back and see what happens until Oct./09 and then have an election. Something tells me Harper really hates to lose and so he may just try to play dirtier than ever. I think this though will look bad on him since he also made deals with the NDP and the Bloc in 2004 and so whatever they say Harper did first!

The attack adds are making him look really stupid parliment is still in sesion and he's slandering our MP's. Harpers lost all credability. seriousluy who actually does that to our parliment?

Expect the GG to kick his sorry ars out soon as she gets back

WIP · December 2, 2008

Will Harper turtle? Will we see Harper hide with his tail between his legs for 8 weeks?
c'mon Harper - be a man, not a turtle!

Didn't he already turtle when he put back the Party funding and scratched the plan of cutting civil service pay, and banning strikes?

blueblood · December 2, 2008

The attack adds are making him look really stupid parliment is still in sesion and he's slandering our MP's. Harpers lost all credability. seriousluy who actually does that to our parliment?
Expect the GG to kick his sorry ars out soon as she gets back

Except the GG to play ball with the PM or Harper makes a call to Buckingham Palace.

jdobbin · December 2, 2008

Except the GG to play ball with the PM or Harper makes a call to Buckingham Palace.

Can you show me a cite where that is a strategy?

Argus · December 2, 2008

Harper intended another $300 million election after this budget so we know what their priorities are.

Yeah, okay, but until we start getting the messages from your toaster DIRECTLY we still won't be believing it.

jdobbin · December 2, 2008

Yeah, okay, but until we start getting the messages from your toaster DIRECTLY we still won't be believing it.

Think I was told it was impossible that he was going to call an election before the term limit last time too. Maybe you should come listen to my toaster.

blueblood · December 2, 2008

Can you show me a cite where that is a strategy?

He has fingers and a telephone and good reason.

jdobbin · December 3, 2008

He has fingers and a telephone and good reason.

You're right. He is probably prepared to call the U.S. President as well if the Queen doesn't work out.

johhny · December 3, 2008

Harper will get out his knee pads and address the honorable PM of Canada Mr. Dion

William Ashley · December 3, 2008

Harper will get out his knee pads and address the honorable PM of Canada Mr. Dion

You actually think he will stay in Parliament after disgraced and pretence takes over the role of official oppisition leader?

ToadBrother · December 3, 2008

You actually think he will stay in Parliament after disgraced and pretence takes over the role of official oppisition leader?

The better question is will his fellow party members let him. It's clearer and clearer now that there are many Conservatives privately (and some not so privately) who are holding Harper to blame for this, and that doesn't bode well for his future. I'm sure he'll leave, and I'm sure few will be shedding tears in his own party, except perhaps for in the Reform rump.

I imagine Preston Manning must be laughing tonight. Harper treated him like dirt, and Manning has supposedly long felt Harper was too aggressive. I cannot imagine Manning having so badly blundered.

Shakeyhands · December 3, 2008

You actually think he will stay in Parliament after disgraced and pretence takes over the role of official oppisition leader?

If his party have any brains they will realize the drag that he is and turf him in a review, that is if they can muster the balls, they're like shrinking violets before him as it now stands, afraid to speak truthfully.

ThatGuy · December 3, 2008

Harper and Flaherty sitting in the PMO sharing a laugh about how they hammered out a solid minority. Harper looks to Flaherty, the failed Finance Minister and tactition from Ontario and says, "What should the first thing we do as a strong minority be Jim?"

Flaherty then responds, "Well, we could look to anihilate the opposition while they are already down by removing public funding from them under the guise of tough economic times Steve."

Thus, all hell breaks loose.

August1991 · December 5, 2008

I haven't read through this thread but I had a conversation with a WASP friend in Ontario on this very point.

She asked me, "Do you think Harper planned all this?"

I answered, "I don't think so. I think he just pushed the envelope." Then I added that politicians are obsessive gossipers. If Layton was talking to Duceppe, it's a certainty that Harper knew about it. (Harper, Layton and Duceppe -and Obama- is your neighbour who knows everything happening in your neighbourhood. You don't get to be Obama or Harper unless you are obsessed about knowing the dirt of the story.)

So now, I just don't know.

I reckon that when Harper pushed the envelope with his cut in State financing of political parties, he had a good idea of what demons he was letting out of the bottle. (He knew that the Bloc would go shopping for another English partner. And Harper knew that he could pull back on his party financing change.)

-----

Stephen Harper seems to be the kind of guy who is often underestimated but always seems to be standing in the right place and benefit when the cards fall in place. As Napoleon asked about his generals, "But are they lucky?"

This is a work in progress. Let's see.

Edited December 5, 2008 by August1991

blueblood · December 5, 2008

I haven't read through this thread but I had a conversation with a WASP friend in Ontario on this very point.
She asked me, "Do you think Harper planned all this?"

I answered, "I don't think so. I think he just pushed the envelope." Then I added that politicians are obsessive gossipers. If Layton was talking to Duceppe, it's a certainty that Harper knew about it. (Harper, Layton and Duceppe -and Obama- is your neighbour who knows everything happening in your neighbourhood. You don't get to be Obama or Harper unless you are obsessed about knowing the dirt of the story.)

So now, I just don't know.

I reckon that when Harper pushed the envelope with his cut in State financing of political parties, he had a good idea of what demons he was ;etting out of the bottle.

-----

Stephen Harper seems to be the kind of guy who is often underestimated but always seems to be standing in the right place and benefit when the cards fall in place. As Napoleon asked about his generals, "But are they lucky?"

This is a work in progress. Let's see.

Your prediction powers have been restored. You called this one from the start. I only bought into it early just because it made the most sense.

August1991 · December 5, 2008

Your prediction powers have been restored. You called this one from the start. I only bought into it early just because it made the most sense.

On the contrary, I got this all wrong from the start. I thought Duceppe would never do a deal with Dion, or Layton, nor Dion a deal with Duceppe.

To me, the flagless signing ceremony (and it was flagless, despite what the English MSM/CBC pretends - Trudeau had flags all over when he signed anything) was a death sign of the federal Liberal Party. Harper was accurate when he made that reference, and the CBC/MSM only showed how wrong they were when they declared Harper a liar.

Pierre Trudeau had zillions of flags behind him, or one huge one. When Dion signed that agreement with Layton and Duceppe, he had none, or barely a few in sight.

The federal Liberal Party was once a fundamental institution of Canadian history. It now needs serious reform, renewal. If Liberals didn't know this before, now maybe they do. Quick fixes won't work.

Edited December 5, 2008 by August1991

blueblood · December 5, 2008

On the contrary, I got this all wrong from the start. I thought Duceppe would never do a deal with Dion, or Layton, nor Dion a deal with Duceppe.
To me, the flagless signing ceremony (and it was flagless, despite what the English MSM/CBC pretends - Trudeau had flags all over when he signed anything) was a death sign of the federal Liberal Party. Harper was accurate when he made that reference, and the CBC/MSM only showed how wrong they were when they declared Harper a liar.

Pierre Trudeau had zillions of flags behind him, or one huge one. When Dion signed that agreement with Layton and Duceppe, he had none, or barely a few in sight.

The federal Liberal Party was once a fundamental institution of Canadian history. It now needs serious reform, renewal. If Liberals didn't know this before, now maybe they do. Quick fixes won't work.

yes but you said harper has laid a trap for the power hungry opposition and will make them all look like fools. I'd say you nailed it.

I guessed the prorogue based on that simple analysis.

jdobbin · December 5, 2008

To me, the flagless signing ceremony (and it was flagless, despite what the English MSM/CBC pretends - Trudeau had flags all over when he signed anything) was a death sign of the federal Liberal Party. Harper was accurate when he made that reference.

I watched the news conference, didn't you? There were flags on either side of the table.

Here is one of three pictures from the Calgary Herald. Notice the flag in the background in one of the pics.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/columnists/Du...8194/story.html

Harper was not accurate. You're not accurate. It is a lie and you are a liar.

Edited December 5, 2008 by jdobbin

August1991 · December 5, 2008

I watched the news conference, didn't you? There were flags on either side of the table.

Under the circumstances, I am reticent to engage this symbolic debate.

Trudeau and Chretien typically stood in front of an impressive array of Canadian flags. Dion didn't and federal Liberals should note the cahnge. For this signing, there were few Canadian flags in sight, and none behind Duceppe. Then I saw an array of provincial flags - has the federal Trudeau Liberal Party adopted the Clark "community of communities' idea?

----

Anyway Dobbin, this is all moot. Polls and Ontario MPs know that this coalition idea is dead in the water.

The federal Liberal Party needs to change the way it operates. It must become once again a party viable in the west and the east.

There are no quick fixes.

Edited December 5, 2008 by August1991

BC_chick · December 5, 2008

Anyway Dobbin, this is all moot. Polls and Ontario MPs know that this coalition idea is dead in the water.

Canadians didn't mind the coalition as much as they hated Dion. If the LPC allows Harper to just get with this like all is nothing, it'll make him even more aggressive in his tactics. In a way, the coalition is going to have to follow something through after all this tough talk.

I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't heard the last of it. Just not with Dion as leading the pack.

ToadBrother · December 5, 2008

Canadians didn't mind the coalition as much as they hated Dion. If the LPC allows Harper to just get with this like all is nothing, it'll make him even more aggressive in his tactics. In a way, the coalition is going to have to follow something through after all this tough talk.
I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't heard the last of it. Just not with Dion as leading the pack.

I'd wager 3 to 1 against the Coalition making it past New Years. They should have figured a way to put someone else in as the official leader. Of course Layton was right out, I doubt even most of the NDP could really stomach the notion of him as Prime Minister. Nominating Dion was probably the single biggest error.

blueblood · December 5, 2008

I'd wager 3 to 1 against the Coalition making it past New Years. They should have figured a way to put someone else in as the official leader. Of course Layton was right out, I doubt even most of the NDP could really stomach the notion of him as Prime Minister. Nominating Dion was probably the single biggest error.

The coalition not backing down was their biggest mistake. They got their funding back. They got greedy and paid the price.

August1991 · December 5, 2008

I watched the news conference, didn't you? There were flags on either side of the table.
Here is one of three pictures from the Calgary Herald. Notice the flag in the background in one of the pics.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/columnists/Du...8194/story.html

Harper was not accurate. You're not accurate. It is a lie and you are a liar.

Dobbin, you (and the CBC) just don't get it.

For this coalition to work, there should have been zillions of Canadian flags all over behind the signing ceremony. That's what Trudeau and Chretien (and even Mulroney) did.

The fact that Dion only had a flag or two off to the side misses the point. Living on entitlements, nomenklatura Liberals just don't get it.

----

Of course, with zillions of Maple Leaf flags in the background, Duceppe would never have sat at the table to sign.

This was Harper's point.

Edited December 5, 2008 by August1991