The option of Proroguing Parliament

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The west is going to be happy with todays events. Their ire will be raised in January. Hold onto your shorts folks, we are going for a ride.

[kimmy]

Even the National Post's Don Martin says that Harper will not offer an olive branch. It seems all or nothing. Death to all those oppose.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/st...html?id=1029154

I hope this temporary reprieve will give Harper some time to recognize the reality of the situation, or at least give his allies a chance to talk some sense into him.

-k

[g_bambino]

This is a very strange situation, the government has dodged a confidence motion. In my mind this becomes not merely a question of the constitution but in reality the validity of our system of democracy. The law relevant to the formation of government has been applied by the Governor General, this puts a whole new dimension into play.

Yet, "dodged" does not necessarily equal "completely evaded"; this is a reprieve, not a termination of paliamentary democracy. As you say, an election is coming, and every politician involved in this debacle will face the judgement of the electorate, just not over Christmas, and three weeks after the last election. Whatever Harper does with party money is his choice, consequences and all.

[M.Dancer]

In my mind proroging is the worst of all options.

I would have rathered that "the coalition of parties that Canadians like least" took their scheme to the elctorate and be done with it.

[g_bambino]

Well maybe Harper can fire her and then put in a loyal Tory who will give him the right answer.

Er, you can't fire your boss.

[jdobbin]

I hope this temporary reprieve will give Harper some time to recognize the reality of the situation, or at least give his allies a chance to talk some sense into him.

I have a hard time imagining that people speak freely to him about options since he probably considers himself to be the master strategist.

One idea that has struck me in the last day is that maybe the Liberals could accelerate their leadership vote to mid-January. I won't go into all the logistics of how that would work but given that there are only three leadership contestants, I think it might be the one solution to the problem of the coalition.

I'd keep the policy convention in Vancouver in May. That is still needed. The leadership convention would have to be a scaled down event and maybe delegates would not go anywhere but make use of the phones to call in their votes.

[scribblet]

I don't think it would matter what Harper did or what he put in the budget, Layton has made it clear they will not support him, they simply want power at any cost.

From Bourque.org

Dion and his caucus drones that they read the essays of the late Oxford historian, AJP Taylor, on the decline and fall of the British Liberals. By seeking a coalition with the Loony Left and the separatists, they are on a similar march of folly to the one that destroyed their equally arrogant British cousins who made deals with devils.

Oh, a final thought: Surely all paid up members of the Liberal Party should be allowed to vote on whether to enter a coalition with our hitherto mortal socialist and separatist foes? Or is the Liberal party now the preserve of a clique of self-empowered MPs who would liquidate the noble legacy of Trudeau to consort with the likes of the triumphant Gilles Duceppe and the smarmy Layton?

[jdobbin]

Oh, a final thought: Surely all paid up members of the Liberal Party should be allowed to vote on whether to enter a coalition with our hitherto mortal socialist and separatist foes? Or is the Liberal party now the preserve of a clique of self-empowered MPs who would liquidate the noble legacy of Trudeau to consort with the likes of the triumphant Gilles Duceppe and the smarmy Layton?

I believe Harper will call an election no matter what happens. He is determined to play this out. If the coalition back down, he will pounce and place one after another impossible confidence measures in place just to provoke an election. He is about destroying all opposition to him.

[g_bambino]

I believe Harper will call an election no matter what happens.

It may not be by Harper's direction that there will be another election; I can't see him holding the confidence of the House come January, and even if the Governor General asks the coalition leader to form a government, that cooperative agreement between parties won't last long at all.

[Vancouver King]

..., third it would allow a coalition to strengthen ties with Leader Obama a man the Tories smeared during his election.

You might be on to something here, Johnny. It's a certainty that Hilary Clinton, no friend of neo cons, will counsel Obama on Harper's tenuous position and, in turn, the new president then will likely prefer to settle political scores sooner than later.

What if the price of Harper's meddling, and Obama's big 3 bailout, is the liquidation of Canada's auto sector?

[M.Dancer]

What if the price of Harper's meddling, and Obama's big 3 bailout, is the liquidation of Canada's auto sector?

Then Americans will have a hard time selling cars in Canada. Unless of course Hillary advise Obama since her husband hadn't has sex with the Auto Pact, it must not exist...

Besides, there is nothing Obama can do to liquidate the operations of the two mamufacturers that aren't going tits up..Toyota and Honda

[Smallc]

Unless of course Hillary advise Obama since her husband hadn't has sex with the Auto Pact, it must not exist...

I thought it no longer applied since the passing of the FTA or NAFTA or something?

[M.Dancer]

I thought it no longer applied since the passing of the FTA or NAFTA or something?

It appears you are right. The WTO declared it illegal.

The Auto Pact was abolished in 2001 after a World Trade Organization ruling declared it illegal, though by that time the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and other agreements had made it largely irrelevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_Pr...Trade_Agreement

[scribblet]

I believe Harper will call an election no matter what happens. He is determined to play this out. If the coalition back down, he will pounce and place one after another impossible confidence measures in place just to provoke an election. He is about destroying all opposition to him.

The CPC does not want another election, that is simply not factual, it is just your opinion. The coalition has a chance now to co-operate but instead they have made it clear they will not, no matter what, they will be the ones forcing an election.

After this fiasco, I am now in favour of replacing our parliamentary with something else, maybe along the style of Ireland.

[Vancouver King]

Then Americans will have a hard time selling cars in Canada.

Umm... they are already having a tough time selling cars in Canada.

[Alta4ever]

Well maybe Harper can fire her and then put in a loyal Tory who will give him the right answer.

What do you have against elections dobbin, or do you not like to have your vote?

[Smallc]

Umm... they are already having a tough time selling cars in Canada.

Aren't the two biggest auto companies in Canada GM and Chrysler? I believe they are.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Smallc

[g_bambino]

After this fiasco, I am now in favour of replacing our parliamentary with something else, maybe along the style of Ireland.

Yes, this is the fault of the system, and Ireland's is much better because it has... er, a parliament and a government appointed by the head of state.

[g_bambino]

_{[delete odd double post]}

Edited December 4, 2008 by g_bambino

[jdobbin]

What do you have against elections dobbin, or do you not like to have your vote?

I'd like a vote. A confidence vote. What is wrong with a confidence vote?

As for general elections, our system was set up to avoid constant elections. What do you have against our system? What have you done to change it? Harper certainly knew about it since he asked the Governor General to do it in 2004 and wrote a paper about it with Tom Flanagan as well where they mused about a coalition with the Bloc.

[Alta4ever]

I'd like a vote. A confidence vote. What is wrong with a confidence vote?

As for general elections, our system was set up to avoid constant elections. What do you have against our system? What have you done to change it? Harper certainly knew about it since he asked the Governor General to do it in 2004 and wrote a paper about it with Tom Flanagan as well where they mused about a coalition with the Bloc.

I like elections the more the better, it is my only voice over government. When crap like this happens it makes me what to exercise that even more. It should be up to Canadians to decide.

[jdobbin]

The CPC does not want another election, that is simply not factual, it is just your opinion. The coalition has a chance now to co-operate but instead they have made it clear they will not, no matter what, they will be the ones forcing an election.

It is certainly my opinion. Seems to be the feeling of a few MPs too since they don't have confidence in him to cooperate at all. There is no term limit with Harper. There is no excuse he he won't give in terms of going to an election.

All of the people here who swore up and down that Harper would not go to an election before the term limit last time were saying how it was completely necessary.

Harper can say confidence is whatever he wishes it to be. And he is not above having his people call out treason sedition, traitor and the like to fan the flames.

After this fiasco, I am now in favour of replacing our parliamentary with something else, maybe along the style of Ireland.

How is that different from what we have now?

[Wilber]

I am happy with the Governor General's decision. We should all respect it and understand that she did it with the best interests of the country at heart.

Wow, this is twice we have agreed on something in less than 24 hours. One of us must be getting soft It really is the best thing for the country. By the end of January there should be something of substance to judge instead of raw emotion ruling the day. If there isn't, the government should change. Watching Dion in question period yesterday, I was half expecting to see one of Terry Gilliam's exploding heads. Duceppe wasn't much better.

Observing the bizarre behavior of these supposedly intelligent and competent people on all sides, it amazes me that they are so self absorbed they actually feel they are accomplishing something good by all this, instead of tearing the country apart as they really are.

[jdobbin]

I like elections the more the better, it is my only voice over government. When crap like this happens it makes me what to exercise that even more. It should be up to Canadians to decide.

How many elections? Over and over again? When hardened positions occur and a solution is not in the offing, this was set up to offer another choice. It is legitimate. It is democratic. It is Canadian.

You don't like it but I certainly would have accepted it if Harper had done it in 2004. I wouldn't have been happy about it but I wouldn't have yelled treason, traitor and sedition and complained that I was going to separate or do something even more drastic as some here have suggested.

You'll get your chance to vote but in a system that counts on confidence, the government has to make sure that it operates within the parameters of a minority. It doesn't mean sitting at home and voting for your favourite pop idol each night and calling that democratic. It just sounds expensive and unnecessary.

Edited December 4, 2008 by jdobbin

[g_bambino]

I like elections the more the better, it is my only voice over government. When crap like this happens it makes me what to exercise that even more. It should be up to Canadians to decide.

Then why not do away with parliament all-together? Let's all just vote on everything!