Sir Bandelot Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 not convinced...sorry Yep, Canada is a diverse country with many different kinds of people in every province. You only represent a small part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-VMG- Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 not convinced...sorry I wasn't trying to convince you... i really couldn't give a shit about what you think or have to say in all honesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 (edited) I think we need to go back to a more logical conception of Canada that includes the original founding members (as well as PEI and Newfoundland if they so desire)--the West has clearly chosen to taken on the role of aggitator and destabilizer, and this has gone on for much too long. Harper is just the latest in a succession of Western leaders who has sought to undermine Canada by provoking Quebec and demeaning Ontario and the Maritimes. If it were decided that Canada would henceforth encapsulate only those provinces EAST of the Ontario/Manitoba border, I certainly would have no problem with it. Ontario would have had a better case for separating.... like the first 137 years, when it was a have Province supporting all the other havenot Provinces. Ontario gave alot and now, in retrospect, there doesn't appear to be alot of goodwill. Just continued petty attacks. However, with Ontario in a two year major decline and about to have a meltdown, one which I don't believe it will recover from in the next 3 years, especially under the current government policy, Ontario may as well separate, and then sink into a bottomless pit. The current Conservative government hasnt been anymore anti Ontario, then the Liberal Ontario government. They like any other government just took it for granted, paid no attention, and haven't been able to give a shit, until it is going to be far too late. Yes, a wasteland in the middle of Canada.... and the ROC would be happy. Edited December 7, 2008 by madmax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornAlbertan Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 It was still a very strong in that time... Which begs the question... If we were able to get out of debt at $40/barrel where the hell is all this money going that we should have seen haev an impact when it was at $90+/barrel.You would also know that a lot of public funding was cut in the name of getting rid of the debt... maybe thats why albertans are so stupid Yeah, I know a lot of public funding was cut. But you also notice the massive infrastructure changes? Multi-billion dollar highway/freeway interchanges? Also...the stupid legacy building incarnation known as Ralph Bucks...sure, there has been frivilous spending. I am not the finance minister so I can't say where it all went. But I can tell you...they "high" oil prices had very little to do with our getting out of debt as the debt was paid off in March 2005...as per the announcement in mid-2004...well before oil prices got way out of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornAlbertan Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I wasn't trying to convince you... i really couldn't give a shit about what you think or have to say in all honesty. Well...you certainly are entertaining me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornAlbertan Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Ontario would have had a better case for separating.... like the first 137 years, when it was a have Province supporting all the other havenot Provinces. Ontario gave alot and now, in retrospect, there doesn't appear to be alot of goodwill. Just continued petty attacks. However, with Ontario in a two year major decline and about to have a meltdown, one which I don't believe it will recover from in the next 3 years, especially under the current government policy, Ontario may as well separate, and then sink into a bottomless pit. The current Conservative government hasnt been anymore anti Ontario, then the Liberal Ontario government. They like any other government just took it for granted, paid no attention, and haven't been able to give a shit, until it is going to be far too late.Yes, a wasteland in the middle of Canada.... and the ROC would be happy. As Kimmy said prior...and having read this...music to my ears. But I wonder...why would Ontario separate from Canada? It supposedly IS Canada...why not just kick those your don't want out. Pretty please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-VMG- Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Yeah, I know a lot of public funding was cut. But you also notice the massive infrastructure changes? Multi-billion dollar highway/freeway interchanges? Also...the stupid legacy building incarnation known as Ralph Bucks...sure, there has been frivilous spending. I am not the finance minister so I can't say where it all went. But I can tell you...they "high" oil prices had very little to do with our getting out of debt as the debt was paid off in March 2005...as per the announcement in mid-2004...well before oil prices got way out of hand. I think a monkey could have taken us out of debt with what we had. So much for Alberta getting the benefit... we paid as much as anyone else did for fuel. I think we could have done better. Has paying off the debt got us that far ahead... i suppose it probably will pay off in the long run... we'll just have to wait and see for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 As Kimmy said prior...and having read this...music to my ears. But I wonder...why would Ontario separate from Canada? It supposedly IS Canada...why not just kick those your don't want out. Pretty please You keep kicking them back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-VMG- Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 But then we'd all be bought out by the US... oh wait we already are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Blue Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I like how Ontarioloyalist is arguing for separation, even as his province gets funding from the three western provinces. However as was stated before, this will be great news for the western separatist cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 ...It seems to me all you care about is the money... otherwise you wouldn't care that they only care about the money.... I guess we could have become part of the united states back in the day rather than joining Canada... Nope....never would have happened. The USA was too busy running away from your original problem. Maybe it's just me, but why do some Canucks always get worked up into a separation lather whenever there is economic stress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySeinfeld Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 And to be honest, after what I witnessed over the last couple of days, I wouldn't mind saying good riddance to the province either. That'll take a nice conservative chunk out of the number of seats in parliament and maybe we can finally break this deadlock that doesn't seem to wanna go away. See - NOW we're talking. We can start a wealthy country and the lefties in the remaining ROC can vote themselves more lollipops with no-one left to pay for 'em. Sounds good to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I like how Ontarioloyalist is arguing for separation, even as his province gets funding from the three western provinces. However as was stated before, this will be great news for the western separatist cause. In the grand scheme of things, $300 million isn't all that much and the province could certainly survive without it. Had Ontario not been doling out all the money it has to support the western provinces, it certainly would be in much better financial shape. Eventually the Ontario economy will improve, and were Ontario and the rest of what is now Eastern Canada be divorced from the burdonsome West, it would finally be able to achieve the greatness that always should have attained... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Blue Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 (edited) Had Ontario not been doling out all the money it has to support the western provinces, it certainly would be in much better financial shape. Eventually the Ontario economy will improve, and were Ontario and the rest of what is now Eastern Canada be divorced from the burdonsome West, it would finally be able to achieve the greatness that always should have attained... What a pleasent fiction you live in. The province which receives the most in equalization payments is Quebec, at around 60%, add in the Atlantic Provinces and I'm certain the lionshare of equalization remains in the east. Arguing that the west is burdensome is ridiculous, especially since the west has been supportive of decentralization. Edited December 7, 2008 by Canadian Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySeinfeld Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 (edited) In the grand scheme of things, $300 million isn't all that much and the province could certainly survive without it. Had Ontario not been doling out all the money it has to support the western provinces, it certainly would be in much better financial shape. Eventually the Ontario economy will improve, and were Ontario and the rest of what is now Eastern Canada be divorced from the burdonsome West, it would finally be able to achieve the greatness that always should have attained... If you knew anything about economics your outlook might now be so promising, seeing as your province has chosen in typical backward-looking fashion to hitch your entire economic engine's wagon to Detroit's "big three" automakers. In other words good luck! Given the choice to bet on the future of the global economic picture I'd much rather be in the west's position, correlating to the massive long term growth profiles of both China & India, rather than Detroit's club of bankrupt dinosaurs. But regardless of how things play out, out west we'd love to see this split occur. Is there anything we can do to help your cause? Pretty please!!! Meantime, read this Edited December 7, 2008 by JerrySeinfeld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellowtraveller Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Harper is just the latest in a succession of Western leaders who has sought to undermine Canada by provoking Quebec The West continually provokes Quebec by hurling billions and billions of dollars at them with no expectation of anything in return. It is outrageous. One small change to your plan to kick out the West: please keep Manitoba. They are used to your welfare mentality and quite comfy with it. Plus the Blue Bombers already play in the East. Ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouverite Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Trolls come and go, but Canada will remain the same for the time being, unless it joins the States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 If you knew anything about economics your outlook might now be so promising, seeing as your province has chosen in typical backward-looking fashion to hitch your entire economic engine's wagon to Detroit's "big three" automakers.In other words good luck! The number of people employed in Ontario is about TWICE the total population of Alberta, and has increased slightly between Nov 07 and Nov 08. The loss of a few thousand auto industry jobs in a workforce of 6.6 million is unfortunate, but hardly devestating. Between Oct and Nov 08, Alberta has lost about 9000 fulltime jobs, which on a per capita basis is pretty significant, and so I don't think you're really in a position to be needling Ontario about its economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySeinfeld Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 The number of people employed in Ontario is about TWICE the total population of Alberta, and has increased slightly between Nov 07 and Nov 08. The loss of a few thousand auto industry jobs in a workforce of 6.6 million is unfortunate, but hardly devestating. Between Oct and Nov 08, Alberta has lost about 9000 fulltime jobs, which on a per capita basis is pretty significant, and so I don't think you're really in a position to be needling Ontario about its economy. Once again, you lack a basic understanding of economics. Whether directly (auto plant jobs) or indirectly (all the other businesses that feed of the auto industry), a collapse in the auto manufacturing sector is a serious problem for Ontario. By contrast, given the major labour shortage in Alberta due to overwhelming growth, many Albertans are happy to see some return to normalcy - if only so that they can actually get a coffee at Tim Hortons witho0ut waiting in line for 40 minutes (people refuse to take these jobs due to the power of choice). By the way, Alberta's also debt free. Anyway, as I said, regardless of economics (your command of which leave much to be desired), I'd be glad to help your cause any way I can. Your post is lovely. For the west, it would be like convincing a fat, ugly, ungrateful, unemployed wife to agree to a divorce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySeinfeld Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Not to mention that it will still be a HUGE net contributor to the country. Its only getting a tiny fraction of what it sends out back. Alberta gets nuttin'. The Big Zilch. 'nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Once again, you lack a basic understanding of economics.Whether directly (auto plant jobs) or indirectly (all the other businesses that feed of the auto industry), a collapse in the auto manufacturing sector is a serious problem for Ontario. Well, no, not really, because these people either retire, retrain, or find new employment. All of the job losses in the automotive industry have yet to reflect in the statistics, which are quite current, so your doom and gloom scenario is a delusion on your part. The people of Ontario are resiliant and will weather this economic downturn quite well. By contrast, given the major labour shortage in Alberta due to overwhelming growth, many Albertans are happy to see some return to normalcy - if only so that they can actually get a coffee at Tim Hortons witho0ut waiting in line for 40 minutes (people refuse to take these jobs due to the power of choice). Oh, indeed... the economy's going to hell, but hey, that means a shorter wait for a coffee... pretty lame if you ask me... By the way, Alberta's also debt free. Who cares? That still doesn't change the fact that it's stuck in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, as I said, regardless of economics (your command of which leave much to be desired), I'd be glad to help your cause any way I can.Your post is lovely. For the west, it would be like convincing a fat, ugly, ungrateful, unemployed wife to agree to a divorce. ...from a profoundly mentally retarded, tranny husband in a persistent vegetative state... where do we sign?!?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Trolls come and go, but Canada will remain the same for the time being, unless it joins the States. Sorry, but the "States" cannot save Canada from itself. No pain...no gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 One small change to your plan to kick out the West: please keep Manitoba. They are used to your welfare mentality and quite comfy with it. Plus the Blue Bombers already play in the East. Ta. Wouldn't want to go with you anyway. Many people in the other 3 provinces wouldn't want to go with you either. As a result, there will be no separation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Alberta gets nuttin'. So, you don't get any Canada Social Transfer, or Canada Health Transfer, or Building Canada Fund money? Really, well, you are getting shafted then (note: you get all of those things). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySeinfeld Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 So, you don't get any Canada Social Transfer, or Canada Health Transfer, or Building Canada Fund money? Really, well, you are getting shafted then (note: you get all of those things). Gee. So we're supposed to be happy when we write a big cheque to Ottawa and get a minue amount of that back? Golly - we sure are grateful!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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