Coalition Government

[jdobbin]

Dobbin....you're usually pretty accurate - a little partisan - but usually accurate. This time you're off base. In the week preceding the Economic update, Flaherty clearly said he was moving the budget date forward (it's usually in March) because of it's importance. Here are two news reports that support that fact:

You're correct. My mistake.

[jdobbin]

Harper is not going to lose a confidence vote so the GG will not ask anyone to form a coalition government. In two weeks, no one will talk about this.

So you think that Harper didn't miscalculate and this was all part of his plan? He didn't really mean much of what he said in the economic update? He just backed away from the promise of a civil service strike ban now.

[Smallc]

So you think that Harper didn't miscalculate and this was all part of his plan? He didn't really mean much of what he said in the economic update? He just backed away from the promise of a civil service strike ban now.

The opposition has the drivers seat now. I'm really not sure whats going to happen.

[blueblood]

And if he loses government because of his miscalculation?

These provinces chose to makes tax decreases rather than fund healthcare from existing transfers. They made a choice.

Even when funding was set aside from healthcare, provinces tried to bank it or spend it elsewhere.

Exactly, Harper's risk, it's his ass on the line. If Harper wants to go for the throat I'm all for it, if he fails I'm all for canning him.

Spin it all you want, the fact of the matter is money was cut and the Liberals have blood on their hands, the provinces have other departments that suffered as well. IMO had transfers not occured in the first place, the provincial gov'ts could do it's taxes/services more prudently without being yo-yo'd by the federal gov't. Do you want to get into cuts to the RCMP which led to a chronic police shortage?

[jdobbin]

Exactly, Harper's risk, it's his ass on the line. If Harper wants to go for the throat I'm all for it, if he fails I'm all for canning him.

Get ready for a new leader then. I can't see this Parliament lasting when he acts like he thinks of himself first.

Spin it all you want, the fact of the matter is money was cut and the Liberals have blood on their hands, the provinces have other departments that suffered as well. IMO had transfers not occured in the first place, the provincial gov'ts could do it's taxes/services more prudently without being yo-yo'd by the federal gov't. Do you want to get into cuts to the RCMP which led to a chronic police shortage?

The provinces opted to cut their taxes rather than fund their programs. There is no way of getting round that.

[blueblood]

There are plenty of posts here from Tory supporters react with glee to any to any hardship that befalls on Ontario.

It sue doesn't sound that way to me: a westerner.

Cripes, when the west was in the toilet, and their only answer was pick up your socks, how else should we react? Socks were picked up and the shoe is now on the other foot.

Saying a person from Winnipeg is a westerner is like saying Obama is "stereotypical black" - he may have black skin, but he didn't come from slavery. Winnipeg is more in line with Vancouver and Toronto than Edmonton and Calgary.

[blueblood]

It would be an interesting one given you can't afford any advertising - or transportation - or flyers. LOL

Only a "hyperpartisan" Liberal still emotionally traumatized over the threat to his party's public funding would suggest the economy wasn't a priority of the government.

I would rather they take the time to get things right with their "economic incentives" then rush in and throw money around to no purpose. The huge goverment spending and stimulus put out by the Americans, Europeans and Chinese will have some affect, and it's quite prudent to wait a month or so to see what that affect is. It's also prudent to find out what the Americans do about their auto sector - for that will also have a huge influence here on what we do with ours.

I have been critical of the government's budgetary spending, but I, like the great majority of Canadians, have far more confidence in his ability to address the economy than I do in you and yours. Any "economic stimulus" package a Liberal coallition would come up with on the fly would be almost entirely designed to look good, to make it appear the government was doing something - instantly. Any actual impact it might have on the economy would be purely coincidental, and not particularly important, as far as the power grabbers are concerned.

Think of the BSE bailout fiasco, yikes!!!

[jdobbin]

Cripes, when the west was in the toilet, and their only answer was pick up your socks, how else should we react? Socks were picked up and the shoe is now on the other foot.

Oil prices increased, you mean.

Saying a person from Winnipeg is a westerner is like saying Obama is "stereotypical black" - he may have black skin, but he didn't come from slavery. Winnipeg is more in line with Vancouver and Toronto than Edmonton and Calgary.

Of all the gall. I can see this being a winning attitude for Canada from Alberta conservatives: claim that people from Manitoba and B.C. are not westerners.

Edited November 30, 2008 by jdobbin

[blueblood]

Oil prices increased, you mean.

Of all the gall. I can see this being a winning attitude for Canada from Alberta conservatives: claim that people from Manitoba and B.C. are not westerners.

Ontario has things people want, why is their economy in the crapper. Should Alberta have had the same management style as Ontario???

That's Winnipeg and Vancouver, they are a complete 180 from other westerners. The only commonality is their location. Just like Obama.

[Smallc]

Ontario has things people want, why is their economy in the crapper. Should Alberta have had the same management style as Ontario???

I hope you don't think that Ontario won't recover. There's no reason to think that it won't. Ontario is a diverse economy and it will recover.

[blueblood]

I hope you don't think that Ontario won't recover. There's no reason to think that it won't. Ontario is a diverse economy and it will recover.

Ontario will no doubt recover, but they will be knocked down a few rungs. The big 3 are most likely going to have to file for chapter 11, which should help in completely restructuring the auto industry, quash the unions, and ensure that Ontario firms are profitable again. Hopefully Dalton gets voted out of office in short order and Ontarians realize that a system like Alberta's and Saskatchewan's is how an economy should be managed. Expect mining, and strangely enough forestry to grow in 10 years. Ontario should be looking at how California does things instead of Michigan and Pennsylvania.

[jdobbin]

Ontario has things people want, why is their economy in the crapper. Should Alberta have had the same management style as Ontario???

Probably because they have an economy dependent on one market. Sort of like Alberta that has an economy dependent on one resource.

That's Winnipeg and Vancouver, they are a complete 180 from other westerners. The only commonality is their location. Just like Obama.

A racist statement coupled with an arrogant and garbage-like statement. Next you'll say Edmonton is not really western. Please stop before going any further about how some people are not really back or others not really western.

[Smallc]

A racist statement coupled with an arrogant and garbage-like statement. Next you'll say Edmonton is not really western.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. How dare some place in the west vote in New Democrats or Liberals.

[August1991]

So you think that Harper didn't miscalculate and this was all part of his plan? He didn't really mean much of what he said in the economic update? He just backed away from the promise of a civil service strike ban now.

I think Harper decided to push the envelope and see if the opposition would bend.

Harper pulled back on one issue of importance to the Bloc.

----

Outside here in the broader world, the Liberals (and many media commentators) look like what they are: people far too obsessed with politics as a game of intrigue and power plays. Most people (non political junkees) see this as some crazy political shenanigan.

The whole premise of a coalition government relies on the defeat of the Tories on a confidence motion. And that's not going to happen.

So, all this discussion is mere verbiage. Fun if you enjoy such things but supremely boring for ordinary people.

[blueblood]

Probably because they have an economy dependent on one market. Sort of like Alberta that has an economy dependent on one resource.

A racist statement coupled with an arrogant and garbage-like statement. Next you'll say Edmonton is not really western. Please stop before going any further about how some people are not really back or others not really western.

How is that a racist statement? That was an occurance brought up during the election campaign. It's a fair analogy, its not my fault you don't like it.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. How dare some place in the west vote in New Democrats or Liberals.

Saskatchewan is where the NDP was founded and has a strong history of voting for them, still more western than Winnipeg.

[Smallc]

Saskatchewan is where the NDP was founded and has a strong history of voting for them, still more western than Winnipeg.

Oh, now I get it, its just Liberals you don't like.

[Smallc]

Outside here in the broader world, the Liberals (and many media commentators) look like what they are: people far too obsessed with politics as a game of intrigue and power plays. Most people (non political junkees) see this as some crazy political shenanigan.

I'm sure someone is doing a poll on this right now. We'll have to wait and see if your right ---- I doubt that you are. The opposition has made the government look like fools. Enough will see the Liberals and NDP standing up for them while the Conservatives do nothing.

[johhny]

.

Saskatchewan is where the NDP was founded and has a strong history of voting for them, still more western than Winnipeg.

credit should be given to the NDP for healthcare to0o

[M.Dancer]

credit should be given to the NDP for healthcare to0o

Why? I can't recall any legislation they've passed on the subject.

[johhny]

Why? I can't recall any legislation they've passed on the subject.

your probably to young to remember........

[Alta4ever]

There are plenty of posts here from Tory supporters react with glee to any to any hardship that befalls on Ontario.

It sue doesn't sound that way to me: a westerner.

Glee what glee, we know that it means yet again the west is going to have to send more money to Ont and QB for their problems.

I know of no one out here who whats to see a hardship befall other provinces becasue we know that we in the west that will have to pay for it.

[Alta4ever]

So you think that Harper didn't miscalculate and this was all part of his plan? He didn't really mean much of what he said in the economic update? He just backed away from the promise of a civil service strike ban now.

Whether Harper miscalculated or not, he did do one thing he showed that when you pull pig back out of the puiblic trough, they bit blindly. No that its been removed we are hearing noise on small issues as liberals are smelling the entitlements of power and are will ing ot try to subvert democracy to get it.

[johhny]

When considering the giants of Canadian politics, T.C. Douglas surely stands at the forefront. Tommy Douglas was a remarkable Canadian whose contributions have helped to shape our great nation. Although he is most famous as the founding father of Medicare, the most advanced health-care system in the world, Douglas’ contributions to Saskatchewan and Canada were tremendous. Douglas established democratic socialism as a mainstream in Canadian politics and his CCF government became the first socialist government in North America. A visionary who achieved his dreams, Douglas changed the face of Canadian politics. More importantly, Tommy Douglas was a politician who put the good of the people he represented first and foremost.

[Alta4ever]

When considering the giants of Canadian politics, T.C. Douglas surely stands at the forefront. Tommy Douglas was a remarkable Canadian whose contributions have helped to shape our great nation. Although he is most famous as the founding father of Medicare, the most advanced health-care system in the world, Douglas’ contributions to Saskatchewan and Canada were tremendous. Douglas established democratic socialism as a mainstream in Canadian politics and his CCF government became the first socialist government in North America. A visionary who achieved his dreams, Douglas changed the face of Canadian politics. More importantly, Tommy Douglas was a politician who put the good of the people he represented first and foremost.

Is that why our health system isn't anywhere near the top?

[Shakeyhands]

Whether Harper miscalculated or not, he did do one thing he showed that when you pull pig back out of the puiblic trough, they bit blindly. No that its been removed we are hearing noise on small issues as liberals are smelling the entitlements of power and are will ing ot try to subvert democracy to get it.

I wonder why you keep refering to this trough of yours?

and what subversion of democracy? It seems that this is the ultimate in democratic moves.

You must have received the note from Mr Giorno.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Shakeyhands