Coalition Government

[blueblood]

Hey, I thought transfers were bad?

I'm pointing out Liberal inconsistincies. I have no problem cutting transfers. Dobbin was trashing the Albertans for blowing up a hospital and causing people to die, how many people died because of Liberal cuts to the provinces. The Alberta tories aren't the only one with blood on their hands.

Edited November 30, 2008 by blueblood

[reasonoverpassion]

Alba4ever:

Quebec has been floundering since the day I was born. Ontairios chickens have come home to roost. BTW I also see that a deal was offered to GM Chrysler and Ford, but they have to open their books, so their poor fiscal management is known. I love it, because we are not blindly throwing money down a well, wishing for the mess to go away, which you seem to want to do. A real plan must be developed before one cent is spent.

We in Ontario don't need lectures from Alberta on how to build a viable ecomony. How Albertans don't see the folly of building an entire economy around a single non renewable resource is beyond me. You are about as economically diverse as Saudi Arabia. Thanks to politicans like Ralph and Ed who opted for quick and easy tax cuts instead of encouraging economic diversification, once the oil drys up or the (demand for it dries up) you'll be worst off than Newfoundland without Cod.

[jdobbin]

I wouldn't mind a new leader. I'm happy he went for the throat, but him backing off doesn't have me impressed. If he loses gov't the election, he should go.

And if he loses government because of his miscalculation?

It is a provincial responsibility, the Liberals took out the knees of the provinces. If the Libs under trudeau want healthcare, then the Libs should support that. Don't blame the Albertans for Killing people, the Libs have blood on their hands as well.

These provinces chose to makes tax decreases rather than fund healthcare from existing transfers. They made a choice.

Even when funding was set aside from healthcare, provinces tried to bank it or spend it elsewhere.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Alba4ever:

We in Ontario don't need lectures from Alberta on how to build a viable ecomony. How Albertans don't see the folly of building an entire economy around a single non renewable resource is beyond me. You are about as economically diverse as Saudi Arabia. Thanks to politicans like Ralph and Ed who opted for quick and easy tax cuts instead of encouraging economic diversification, once the oil drys up or the (demand for it dries up) you'll be worst off than Newfoundland without Cod.

Many things are likely beyond you. I'll tell you what, you can keep your economy, we will keep ours. Alberta does need to diversify, about that you are correct. I was thinking of something on the order of a small auto industry, that would be nice. When the feds start spending money to spur the economy I think Alberta should get about 10 % of that money.

[Argus]

Maybe thats what you see, but inn much of the country that often votes Liberlas, they see a party standing up for them and they see a party that is now mounting a real opposition. They see the NDP and Liberals working while the government releases an update that is slammed by economists and does nothing for them. The government looks terrible right now. I would think they would be glad the election was 6 weeks ago and not today.

And yet, like all the other Liberal and NDP supporters here, you're eager for - the GG to let you into power. None of you shows anything but horror at the thought of actually going to the people in an election - where you would be hammered.

I haven't yet seen a poll asking whether Canadians want the Tories replaced by some bastardized coallition of leftists, but I have little doubt about what the response would be.

[Argus]

You consider removing the gun from opposition foreheads, compromise? It is likely that since the train has left the station the process of coalition building will continue.

I, along with countless others, are rather enjoying the spectacle of Stephen Harper running scared.

That sounds very much like the voice of a bitter person filled with hatred for those who disagree with his political views.

[jdobbin]

And yet, like all the other Liberal and NDP supporters here, you're eager for - the GG to let you into power. None of you shows anything but horror at the thought of actually going to the people in an election - where you would be hammered.

Not me. If Harper doesn't want to put a stimulus in the economic update and the Governor General says let's go to an election, let's go.

You're assuming that the public will support the lack of priorities of the government.

I haven't yet seen a poll asking whether Canadians want the Tories replaced by some bastardized coallition of leftists, but I have little doubt about what the response would be.

But we have seen polls showing that the public wants the government to make the economy a priority. The economic update was a very thin soup in that regard.

[Argus]

What province do you live in? My province hasn't been affected much either, but Ontario and Quebec are floundering, and even your province is down. Something is needed. Nothing was done.

Quebec has been floundering for about fifty years now. It will ALWAYS flounder.

Ontario is floundering due to incompetent provincial government which has raised its spending by 50% over the last term in power, and raised taxes to match.

[Argus]

The "I'm alright Jack" approach that some Tories is demonstrated perfectly by your wonder at how there can possibly be a recession going on.

I'm not sure where the government's attempts to reassure people while the Liberals and NDP were almost literally running frantically around in circles screaming and pulling out their hair could honestly be termed as "I'm all right jack".

[jdobbin]

That sounds very much like the voice of a bitter person filled with hatred for those who disagree with his political views.

It is from the school of Harper: the howling of coward, the capricious take no prisoners, politics as war, destroy all others and not merely defeat them type of politics.

The scurried retreat the other day still doesn't look like Harper gets it. The boot on the throat of the Opposition in a minority can eventually end in no confidence.

Harper can beg the Governor General to go to an election instead if he is defeated and she may well do that. However, there is no doubt that he has lost confidence from the House to do anything except that what is in his own self interest. He puts the country second to that.

[Keepitsimple]

And yet, like all the other Liberal and NDP supporters here, you're eager for - the GG to let you into power. None of you shows anything but horror at the thought of actually going to the people in an election - where you would be hammered.

I haven't yet seen a poll asking whether Canadians want the Tories replaced by some bastardized coallition of leftists, but I have little doubt about what the response would be.

I'm anxiously awaiting that poll....but I know that the Star and Globe won't be the ones to sponsor it. When and if it's done, I'll be curious how the question is phrased.......your phrasing is pretty accurate. It's mind-boggling to think that separatists, who want nothing except to take Quebec out of Canada, would hold the balance of power. Now that the Conservatives have taken election funding off the table, the media should be raking the Liberals and NDP over the coals for even considering such a treasonous move. Any sane person knows that we have to wait for Obama to show his cards before we open the vault - especially with the auto industry. Can you imagine if we give the auto industry billions and then Obama decides it's best to let them seek bankruptcy protection and start from scratch? The opposition should wait for the budget - which has been moved up to January to coincide with Obama's post-inaugeration plans - and then if they don't like it - they can start jumping up and down. Once again, with election financing off the table....and the Bloc holding the balance of power....attempting a coup with a coalition borders on treason.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Keepitsimple

[Argus]

This is why the Tories should be defeated. They have a visceral hatred of the east

The only visceral hatred which seems to be rearing its head around here is the visceral hatred of Liberals whose public funding was threatened. Even their hangers-on seem to be still in a state of horrified outrage over it, and making idiotic comments without support.

Harper is prepared to let Ontario slide and blame the Liberals provincially for it.

Drivel. It's true that Ontario's problems are at least partly the result of the high tax and spend policies of the provincial Liberals. But the real problem was gross inefficiency in industry which was masked by years by a low Canadian dollar. With the dollar flying high that prop has been pulled out from underneath some pretty poorly run industries and businesses. I see no quick fix for that. Another problem, of course, is the gross incompetence of the leaders of the big three auto manufacturers coming home to roost as the economy tilts into recession. What would be best for Ontario would be for all three to go into bankruptcy so they can reorganize and shed many of the absurdly unaffordable labour agreements they signed.

They have been burned in Quebec and that is why they will try to hurt Montreal as much as possible.

Yeah, okay, and will be looking for kittens and small children to eat, too.

It is all part of Harper's master strategy to driving everyone who opposes him to their knees.

This is sounding like one of the more paranoid rants one sees from the far left.

Harper was not interested in any deal till this weekend. He was prepared to let the damage happen out of spite for Ontario and Liberals both provincially and federally.

Paranoid drool.

[Argus]

Nobody said to start throwing money at the problem, they're wondering where the plan is, and why its taking so long.

So they want to start throwing money at the problem - before they understand what the problem is. Smaaaaart move.

[jdobbin]

I'm not sure where the government's attempts to reassure people while the Liberals and NDP were almost literally running frantically around in circles screaming and pulling out their hair could honestly be termed as "I'm all right jack".

The tin ear Harper shows on things like the downturn where people are afraid for their jobs, afraid for retirement and afraid for their families doesn't offer much reassurance when he himself said the worst is over. Then he said it was a great time to invest at the most volatile time when many people were wondering whether their jobs would still be around.

The Opposition was not the cause of this and asking the government what their response to what was going on was not running around in circles.

The self satisfied smugness probably cost the Tories a lot of votes. The thin gruel offered in their economic update shows they still feel that doing little while at the same time, they look to kick others in hyperpartisan brinkmanship.

It is no wonder they are looking at the abyss now.

[Argus]

You reflect the hatred many Tories have for Ontario.

It sure doesn't sound like it to me - an Ontarian.

On the other hand, your posts are sounding more and more like a man who is developing an almost obsessive and paranoid hatred and fear of the West and everyone who lives there.

[Argus]

Every economist I have seen disagrees with you.

Let's see a list.

[Argus]

The people who died as a result of poor healthcare in Alberta didn't get to vote.

The health care in Alberta has never been as bad as health care in Quebec - ruled by the Liberals, or, for that matter, Ontario, ruled by the Liberals, or British Columbia - also ruled by the Liberals.

How do you explain this?

[Argus]

del

Edited November 30, 2008 by Argus

[Argus]

I never once said some. I always said most economists....I didn't see one agree with you, but by saying most, I was allowing that there are probably some that do. That said, none that I have seen have agreed with you.

Wow. Backpedal much?

QUOTE(Smallc @ Nov 30 2008, 12:09 AM) *

Every economist I have seen disagrees with you.

[jdobbin]

The only visceral hatred which seems to be rearing its head around here is the visceral hatred of Liberals whose public funding was threatened. Even their hangers-on seem to be still in a state of horrified outrage over it, and making idiotic comments without support.

The idiotic brinkmanship that Harper felt he could get away again just weeks after saying he was turning over a new leaf defies belief.

He indicated that the economy was a priority but not right away. He wants to wait months even though the OECD says that Canada is in a recession now.

The visceral hatred the Tories have of the Liberals guides their every move. Harper puts his own hatred at the top of every decision and goes to war with the intent not of just defeating but exterminating those that oppose him.

Harper has scurried away from election financing promise. If he is really interested in salvaging something, he should have been serious in shaping an economic statement that addressed the issue of the economy meaningfully.

Drivel. It's true that Ontario's problems are at least partly the result of the high tax and spend policies of the provincial Liberals. But the real problem was gross inefficiency in industry which was masked by years by a low Canadian dollar. With the dollar flying high that prop has been pulled out from underneath some pretty poorly run industries and businesses. I see no quick fix for that. Another problem, of course, is the gross incompetence of the leaders of the big three auto manufacturers coming home to roost as the economy tilts into recession. What would be best for Ontario would be for all three to go into bankruptcy so they can reorganize and shed many of the absurdly unaffordable labour agreements they signed.

And Harper is prepared to make those areas suffer for not voting for a Tory government. It is how he works. It is how is MPs think. It is how the Tory party thinks. The recession is a perfect way to stick it to Ontario as we have heard from Tory supporters here.

Yeah, okay, and will be looking for kittens and small children to eat, too.

No, Harper likes kittens in much the same way Ernst Stavro Blofeld likes them.

This is sounding like one of the more paranoid rants one sees from the far left.

Really. We have read the treatise of Tom Flanagan many times. Nothing paranoid about that. he has described in detail how Harper plans to destroy the Opposition, not merely defeat them.

Paranoid drool.

Absolutely true. It is how Harper operates: Destroy all who would dare oppose or not vote Tory.

[jdobbin]

The health care in Alberta has never been as bad as health care in Quebec - ruled by the Liberals, or, for that matter, Ontario, ruled by the Liberals, or British Columbia - also ruled by the Liberals.

How do you explain this?

How do you explain where you get your data from?

[jdobbin]

It sure doesn't sound like it to me - an Ontarian.

There are plenty of posts here from Tory supporters react with glee to any to any hardship that befalls on Ontario.

On the other hand, your posts are sounding more and more like a man who is developing an almost obsessive and paranoid hatred and fear of the West and everyone who lives there.

It sue doesn't sound that way to me: a westerner.

[Argus]

Not me. If Harper doesn't want to put a stimulus in the economic update and the Governor General says let's go to an election, let's go.

It would be an interesting one given you can't afford any advertising - or transportation - or flyers. LOL

You're assuming that the public will support the lack of priorities of the government.

But we have seen polls showing that the public wants the government to make the economy a priority. The economic update was a very thin soup in that regard.

Only a "hyperpartisan" Liberal still emotionally traumatized over the threat to his party's public funding would suggest the economy wasn't a priority of the government.

I would rather they take the time to get things right with their "economic incentives" then rush in and throw money around to no purpose. The huge goverment spending and stimulus put out by the Americans, Europeans and Chinese will have some affect, and it's quite prudent to wait a month or so to see what that affect is. It's also prudent to find out what the Americans do about their auto sector - for that will also have a huge influence here on what we do with ours.

I have been critical of the government's budgetary spending, but I, like the great majority of Canadians, have far more confidence in his ability to address the economy than I do in you and yours. Any "economic stimulus" package a Liberal coallition would come up with on the fly would be almost entirely designed to look good, to make it appear the government was doing something - instantly. Any actual impact it might have on the economy would be purely coincidental, and not particularly important, as far as the power grabbers are concerned.

[madmax]

Most Canadians ARE too stupid to understand the Parliamentary system - evidently including you.

Don't run for parliment. You just did an Elizabeth May.

Canadians are Stupid URL

[Argus]

Alba4ever:

We in Ontario don't need lectures from Alberta on how to build a viable ecomony.

We could certainly use lectures from SOMEONE.

How Albertans don't see the folly of building an entire economy around a single non renewable resource is beyond me

.

Actually, they don't. You've never been west of Ontario, have you?