Coalition Government

[Oleg Bach]

Government and law are inseperable; odd, then, that laws and customs are important to know when analysing this affair. Or, are you trying to say they're not? That, instead, ignorance and emotional reaction to the denial of imaginary entitlements should rule the day?

Right and wrong have nothing to do with "law" or legalism...I say rise up and spit in the eye of any law or legalism that is wrong - getting pretrubed with lawyer after lawyer saying "It may be immoral but it is legal" IF IT IS IMMORAL THEN IT'S CRIMMINAL - So much for the garbage of law with out justice and morality...if it is immoral it is illegal - and if the Law Society in it's ethical self serving moral neutraliy wants to continue practicing crimminality - then boycott the sobs. The herald at Osgoode Hall states and has for a hundred years "Let right prevail" If you can not follow your own creed then you are not a lawyer or law giver or judge - you are just a hetro-f***ot - Those that can not judge between right and wrong are now OFFICALLY FIRED. THOSE THAT CAN CAN STAY - ADHERE TO YOUR HERALD OR GET OUT.

[cybercoma]

we don't need an election every time some new matter comes up that we didn't already get to vote on.

You make it sound like this is some little issue. I'd say the Liberal Party joining forces with a socialist party and a separatist party to overthrow the party that won the most seats during the election is something that should go to the polls. Regardless, even if it doesn't, this coalition will collapse in no time because of the competing interest of those involved. At that time, the Conservative Party will end up getting a majority in the election because people will be absolutely disgusted with every other party in Canada.

[reasonoverpassion]

1985 to 1987 is when the wheel began to come off the Ontario bus, red tory Bill Davis had Ontario well to the left and the coalition you speak of moved even further in that direction. Leading to the election of Bob Rae and well we all know how that went.

What??

When the wheels really came off the bus was when good old Mike Harris was in change with the support of Guy Gionro, Tony Clement, John Baird and Jim Flaherty. We all remember Jim Flaherty's brilliant ideas to tackle homelessness: appointing "special constables" and making homelessness illegal. We all remember John Baird's "get tough on welfare cheats" approach overstating the extent of welfare fraud to undermine public confidence in the system and "workfare"--more about a mean spirited attempt to kick people who are down rather than helping them to get off the system. We all remember the assult on the civil service and the unrest which plagued this province.

Hopefully this type of divisive politics is dead and buried in this county. Heaven help Canada if these guys ever get a majority. You might as well name Canada "Alabama North" Taking away the right to strike for civil servants is just the tip of the iceberg. Private prisons, "right-to-work" legislation, tieing the hands of judges with legislation like "three strikes and you're out", restarting of the whole aborton debate and the list goes on

[FixerPop]

Unbelievable! That sums up the recent actions of our Federal parties. The world is falling apart all around us and all the freakin Biberal and NDPee partys can come up with is to force another election. You gotta know this is heading to another Federal election. If they'd had a plan Canadians were partial to, don't you think they'd shown their hand in the last election? Talk about irresponsible politicians. They are only concerned about where they sit in this car called Canada - to paraphrase Dr. David Suzuki. In the meantime we are about to crash.

These are the actions of losers, folks. Desperate losers who care more about their personal political career than Canada! Irresponsible boobs! Oh, and what set them off on this madness? The Conservatives wanted to eliminate funding of Federal parties by taxpayers. And which party is hurting the most, financially? The Biberals! There's your motive. It has nothing to do with doing the responsible thing.

By the way, remember it was the Biberals who paid off their employees with cash in envelopes. The same party who in their leadership convention did not address the corruption demonstrated by their party in the previous 4 years. The same party who decided the best way to deal with climate change was to commit Canada to Kyoto, do nothing during their term until it was too expensive, then blame the Conservatives, and then give us the Dion-green-tax! Good grief! This is the stuff of middle-school mentality!

And the Layton gang? Geeze, let's cut and run and forget about the Canadians who have died in Afghanistan. Let's make sure they died for nothing! Let's forget about Taliban atrocities says the party leader! Human Rights outside Canada is non-existent in Layton's repretoire. He is simply a poitician with self-interests.

And the Bloc? Federal party? Huh? Call their freakin bluff, cuz that's what it is. They've been sucking this country dry for years! Quebec is going to leave Canada like the Toronto Maple Leafs are going to move to Berlin!!! Wake up Canada! It is a bluff! Quebecers love Canada as much as any Canadian.

Remember the Reform party? Damn this country needs some serious reform, starting with your basic Biberal and NDPee'r.

Oh, by the way, I voted Biberal for 40 years of my life! They are now a joke!

Don't ever talk to me about proportional representation! Here is the perfect example of how it works! Not!!!

[ThatGuy]

There are so many wierd parts to that post that I would first have to rephrase everything you said into truths, then respond. Instead I think that I will listen to Matt Good and drink a beer.

Edited December 2, 2008 by ThatGuy

[g_bambino]

You make it sound like this is some little issue. I'd say the Liberal Party joining forces with a socialist party and a separatist party to overthrow the party that won the most seats during the election is something that should go to the polls. Regardless, even if it doesn't, this coalition will collapse in no time because of the competing interest of those involved. At that time, the Conservative Party will end up getting a majority in the election because people will be absolutely disgusted with every other party in Canada.

Well, I don't intend to make it sound like a minor issue, but it's certainly no coup or aborration of democracy like others here are trying to make it into. I agree with you, though: this coalition probably will not last more than a few months, and I can see the merit in your predictions about the future election.

[ThatGuy]

Well, I don't intend to make it sound like a minor issue, but it's certainly no coup or aborration of democracy like others here are trying to make it into. I agree with you, though: this coalition probably will not last more than a few months, and I can see the merit in your predictions about the future election.

It will be binded to last 18 months MINIMUM.

[FixerPop]

There are so many wierd parts to that post that I would first have to rephrase everything you said into truths, then respond. Instead I think that I will listen to Matt Good and drink a beer.

I guess like so many Canadians you have a short memory. Those 'weird parts' are part of Canadian history.

Beer is good for Canada. Have a couple more!

[g_bambino]

It will be binded to last 18 months MINIMUM.

It can't be bound to last any predetermined amount of time. The agreement between the parties may be that they will support each other for eighteen months, but, I think we all know that a lot can happen in that amount of time.

[ed. for sp.]

Edited December 2, 2008 by g_bambino

[capricorn]

Well, I don't intend to make it sound like a minor issue, but it's certainly no coup or aborration of democracy like others here are trying to make it into.

I've seen a lot of references to "coup" and "coup d'etat" in the press, not just on MLW. The term may be misplaced in the present context, but it's use is only intended to reinforce one's point.

[g_bambino]

I've seen a lot of references to "coup" and "coup d'etat" in the press, not just on MLW. The term may be misplaced in the present context, but it's use is only intended to reinforce one's point.

Perhaps. I'm more inclined to believe it's being bandied about to increase hype and paranoia. Oh, and to sell papers too; as if this wasn't already out-of-the-ordinary enough.

[ThatGuy]

Perhaps. I'm more inclined to believe it's being bandied about to increase hype and paranoia. Oh, and to sell papers too; as if this wasn't already out-of-the-ordinary enough.

It is always about selling papers.

[capricorn]

Bambino, one thing mainstream Canadians has in common with political junkies is their love of sensationalism.

[g_bambino]

Bambino, one thing mainstream Canadians has in common with political junkies is their love of sensationalism.

True enough.

[August1991]

Haven't you been claiming for the last several days that this was all a big fuss over nothing, and it was never going to happen? Don't you lose points for that?

True, I never thought Harper would let this happen and I never thought that Duceppe would get in bed with the Liberals (or the NDP). politics makes for strange bedfellows.

----

I just watched Duceppe's explanation for his position and it makes sense to me now. To put an unkind twist to it, Duceppe has basically become a prostitute.

He has obtained nothing to advance the Bloc's true agenda except for an opting-out clause (with compensation) for cultural matters. He also reserves the right to veto any policy changes.

For the most part, he gets money for Quebec. Cultural funding is restored, political party funding, EI money is earmarked for the unemployed. There is money for housing. Duceppe was opposed to the loss of the right-to-strike and of pay equity. Duceppe accused Harper of being ideological when Duceppe is just as ideological - but with other people's money.

Duceppe has made it plain that his support is only valid until June 2010 which, as he states, is the usual life of a minority government.

In effect, Duceppe decided that the Liberals/NDP offered a better deal than Harper. His attitude is that although he favours Quebec independance, as long as Quebec is part of Canada, he might as well take the money and run.

I always find Duceppe tiresome. He views everything like a union-employer negotiation.

----

I think this coalition is viable because it has a relatively restrained set of measures. Unfortunately, the measures depend on spending alot of other people's money. Watching the three (Dion, Duceppe, Layton - all three born in Quebec BTW), I noted how each put emphasis on the word progressive coalition.

I guess it is now official. It is progressive to spend other people's money.

[jdobbin]

I think this coalition is viable because it has a relatively restrained set of measures. Unfortunately, the measures depend on spending alot of other people's money. Watching the three (Dion, Duceppe, Layton - all three born in Quebec BTW), I noted how each put emphasis on the word progressive coalition.

I guess it is now official. It is progressive to spend other people's money.

It was conservative to spend other people's money too.

I am hoping that we see measured responses due to the financial advisers that the three parties have lined up.

Can Harper survive this if the coalition lasts a year?

[Wrongwayman]

Oh yes "I may have a baby face but I'm toilet trained" Leblanc.

Yeah, the whole thing smacks of treason, which can still be punished by death in Canada. I'm up for a civil war. I'll gladly take up arms against the incursion. Who is with me?

[cybercoma]

The coalition government should just take all of the taxpayers' money and all of the corporations' money and redistribute it as they see fit.

[Smallc]

Yeah, the whole thing smacks of treason, which can still be punished by death in Canada. I'm up for a civil war. I'll gladly take up arms against the incursion. Who is with me?

No, it isn't, no it can't, no I'm not, and no, I won't.

[August1991]

It was conservative to spend other people's money too.

I am hoping that we see measured responses due to the financial advisers that the three parties have lined up.

They plan to spend an extra $30 billion in about 18 months. Even the Tories didn't do that.

Layton wants money, Duceppe wants money and Dion will give it to them because this is a "fiscal stimulus".

----

Dobbin, the question is not whether Harper will survive this coalition. The question is whether Canadian taxpayers will survive it. In particular, I can understand why taxpayers in Alberta, elsewhere in the West and in rural/suburban Canada may object.

Duceppe and Layton represent urban, central Canada. This is a strange coalition. Duceppe is supporting the architect of the clarity act and a minister in the government of the sponsorship scandal.

[Vancouver King]

This is a strange coalition. Duceppe is supporting the architect of the clarity act and a minister in the government of the sponsorship scandal.

If Harper's forthcoming anti-coalition campaign includes ads and speeches focusing on the 'scary'

Bloc, he risks a Quebec backlash that could eliminate remaining CPC seats in Quebec.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Vancouver King

[jdobbin]

They plan to spend an extra $30 billion in about 18 months. Even the Tories didn't do that.

The Tories said that such a plan was on the way today. Or do you think that they have no intention of doing anything for forestry and auto companies?

Layton wants money, Duceppe wants money and Dion will give it to them because this is a "fiscal stimulus".

Two of three parties know that a huge deficit will not go well for them. They will have to do a measured approach.

Dobbin, the question is not whether Harper will survive this coalition. The question is whether Canadian taxpayers will survive it. In particular, I can understand why taxpayers in Alberta, elsewhere in the West and in rural/suburban Canada may object.

High spending Alberta and high spending federal Tories might object?

Duceppe and Layton represent urban, central Canada. This is a strange coalition. Duceppe is supporting the architect of the clarity act and a minister in the government of the sponsorship scandal.

There was a lot of compromise going on in that room.

They all decided Harper must die.

[jdobbin]

Yeah, the whole thing smacks of treason, which can still be punished by death in Canada. I'm up for a civil war. I'll gladly take up arms against the incursion. Who is with me?

Sounds like you want to kill someone. Should we be calling the police?

[BC_chick]

Sounds like you want to kill someone. Should we be calling the police?

BTW Dobbin, that type of emotion wasn't what I had in mind when I said on the other thread that I sympathise with their anger.

[IMASINNER]

They plan to spend an extra $30 billion in about 18 months. Even the Tories didn't do that.

Layton wants money, Duceppe wants money and Dion will give it to them because this is a "fiscal stimulus".

----

Dobbin, the question is not whether Harper will survive this coalition. The question is whether Canadian taxpayers will survive it. In particular, I can understand why taxpayers in Alberta, elsewhere in the West and in rural/suburban Canada may object.

Duceppe and Layton represent urban, central Canada. This is a strange coalition. Duceppe is supporting the architect of the clarity act and a minister in the government of the sponsorship scandal.

I find it laughable that anyone thinks the coalition financial stimulus is going to work. The stimulus packages isnt working in the states.

Bailing out the auto industry (which is partly what the coalition is gonna do), cmon, we live in a capitalist society. Is the government gonna bail me out when I f*ck up my business. The auto industry has not listened to it's consumers for YEARS and it's reaping what it sowed. Let them go bankrupt PLEASE. That way Toyota and the foreigns can buy up their factories and I can get a much more fuel efficient BMW made in Canada at a lower price.

What to know how to add stimulus to the country?? Go buy a freezer, get a cheque from the government. Buy a car, get a cheque from the government. Go to Canadian Tire and get a tune up, get a cheque from the government. Put the money in the hands of the people who really stimulate the economy. We always talk about recession in terms of consumer confidence. Don't give the money to the companies, they jsut f*ck it up anyways. Look at Canadian Airlines, Pacific Western Airlines ETC ETC. The banks still aren't extending credit, to individuals or corporations alike, like they said they would if they got "stimulated". What makes you this the auto industry is gonna do anything different.

Look at WestJet. They set the bar for the airline industry and they have THRIVED! They give the consumer what they want. Air Canada follows suit, and they have been doing a lot better than they were pre-westjet.

sorry i was ranting a bit but I believe in what i'm saying

Edited December 2, 2008 by IMASINNER