eyeball Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 (edited) So the humanitarian thing would have been to allow the Taleban to enslave women, terrorize the population and to support internatioanl terrorists? The west has been supporting regimes that enslave people, terrorize their populations and support international terrorism for decades so what's your point? It's not untrue, just that your definitions have no bearing on any form of reality other than your own. So truth has no bearing on reality? Edited November 27, 2008 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
M.Dancer Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 So truth has no bearing on reality? Truth certainly does. Just that you don't know what the truth is....something to do with your detachment from reality... .. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Oleg Bach Posted November 27, 2008 Author Report Posted November 27, 2008 So the humanitarian thing would have been to allow the Taleban to enslave women, terrorize the population and to support internatioanl terrorists?It's not untrue, just that your definitions have no bearing on any form of reality other than your own. It's none of your buisness what your neighbour who lives ten thousand miles away is doing. Woman are enslaved here also..the population is also terrified here also - just in a more sophisticated manner. International terrorism also exists in a clean version - and it is perpetuated by the banks and oil companies....as far as humanitarianism - go fix the rotten teeth of poor suffering Canadians FIRST. Quote
eyeball Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 Truth certainly does. Just that you don't know what the truth is....something to do with your detachment from reality..... I know what you also know, that its untrue to say our mission in Afghanistan started out as a humanitarian one. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
M.Dancer Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 I know what you also know, that its untrue to say our mission in Afghanistan started out as a humanitarian one. ....because allowing the taleban a free ride to oppress and brutalize was the humanitarian thing to do.... Thanks for always being ass end backwards, you never fail to amuse or disappoint... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Oleg Bach Posted November 27, 2008 Author Report Posted November 27, 2008 ....because allowing the taleban a free ride to oppress and brutalize was the humanitarian thing to do....Thanks for always being ass end backwards, you never fail to amuse or disappoint... There was nothing humanitarian about the Soviet envolvement..as if soviets were real humanitarians There was nothing humanitarian about American involvement - I mean look - how humanitarian can it be to collapse banks and pension funds that are to sustain the elderly. There was nothing humanitarian about Canadian envolvement...we were told to go by Cheney and the boys - If we did not assist in their adventure and by doing so with our good global reputation - give crediblity that was undeserved to the Bush administration - there would have been quiet economic sanctions against big buisness in Canada - seeing that threat is gone - seeing the americans have shot themselves in the foot economically - we are free to leave...may as well take advantage of our big brothers sad accident.. Quote
eyeball Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 (edited) ....because allowing the taleban a free ride to oppress and brutalize was the humanitarian thing to do....Thanks for always being ass end backwards, you never fail to amuse or disappoint... Allowing the west to continue interfering in the region around Afghanistan would be the butal thing to do. The free ride you continue to give the west to do so is despicable. And that's the real truth. Edited November 27, 2008 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
M.Dancer Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 Allowing the west to continue interfering in the region around Afghanistan would be the butal thing to do. The free ride you continue to give the west to do so is despicable. And that's the real truth. You are not interfering if you are there at the request of the agfhans. Keep trying...who knows,one day the broken clock will be right. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Oleg Bach Posted November 27, 2008 Author Report Posted November 27, 2008 You are not interfering if you are there at the request of the agfhans. Keep trying...who knows,one day the broken clock will be right. There are many different segiments of Afghani peoples - which part or who are we there at the request of? Sort of reminds me of Iraq - first they back Sadam and then he misbehaves and they double cross their lacky...then the west hangs the bugger - who is the flavour of the month in Afghanistan and after we are gone perhaps another family will kick out the one we installed though force. Once the force is gone a blow back sling shot effect might take place...then what - do we go back? Quote
eyeball Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 You are not interfering if you are there at the request of the agfhans. The only problem is Canada originally interfered in Afghanistan because the US requested it. Keep trying...who knows,one day the broken clock will be right. Not in your case. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Oleg Bach Posted November 27, 2008 Author Report Posted November 27, 2008 If Harper did not get the phone call from Bush we would not be there - as IF Canadian leadership were sitting around an unused war room wondering how to make use of their military? We were like little kids who did the wrong thing ------ MUM : "If George tells you to jump off a bridge would you do it?" or "If Dick jumps off a bridge would you jump off a bridge" - just so childish...We should have said to the Americans - Make us poor - invade us if you wish but no way are we going to Afghanistan or Iraq....Just think - If we had not interfered the Afghanis would have killed their own and nature would have taken its course and the strife would have been over by now. Quote
Army Guy Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 There's different kinds of winning. Economics is a major part of war strategy so it has to be considered. Everythings about balance and if other countries don't do their part, it comes down to some more realistic questions, not just slogans... Thats your answer "THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF WINNING", so tell us what kind of win is Canada looking for....stocks in oil, pipelines, resources, boosting our military industry....what if anything could be worth the funding we have already spent.....what is the gain.... If it is not a military win....there must be some economic benifit which is what ? please tell me why your first statement is not retarded.... If victory is impossible, it's even more retarded to just keep pouring money into it and watching lives piss away, when the outcome would be the same in each case. That is frugal, good economics. According to who ? certainly not NATO, nor the PM, so who thinks that victory is impossiable ?....We already established that talks did not accomplish anything, you said you read the link, the Taliban are still not interested in talks....which kind of leaves our current action the only action available right now.....As far as our nation pissing money away, 20 dollars a year out of your taxes is a major investment for a guy like you....and those lives that are pissed away, are our nations soldiers lives, who have volunteered thier time and efforts, time and time again, but that fact blows right by you.... H'e the army, yo.He knows who I mean... Or is peace simply beyond the comprehension of a militant mind... Thats right, we always seem to attack something we don't know anything about, and yet i've seen war close and personal, not as a cook as you suggested, but as an infanteer....mout piont really when there is not front lines, and even our cooks have fired rounds in anger....and trust me if peace was to break out over the world tomorrow i'd be the first to lay down my arms and join the unemployment line.... but in reality thats not going to happen anytime soon is it.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Oleg Bach Posted November 27, 2008 Author Report Posted November 27, 2008 For your information The Marshall Class or "military" was never established to generate war. The purpose of it was to provide defence. It was to maintain peace. If military was by design to ensure war then we would not have a Department Of Defence - but a Department Of Offence! The soldier hater may have had hippy parents - and even though I may have looked like a hippy - I never fully adopted the doctrine of cowardice. Human beings are not always peacful and kind - their is a dark raging side - are we to allow those crazed in raging anger to destroy us? If we had better politicans we would not be having these difficulties - Our leaders should go to the core of the problem - as with Saudi Arabia...who funded 9 11 - but they did not because they are self serving and act on behalf of big oil. Go after big buisness and stop blaming military. Quote
White Doors Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 hhmmmm.... Credibility scale is close... On the one hand we have a serving member of the Canadian forces serving his country and on his third tour in Afghanistan, on the other, an anonymous, ignorant internet poster calling our veterans dogs.... I mean, who has the most courage? Who is the real man? What say you MLW? Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
M.Dancer Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 The only problem is Canada originally interfered in Afghanistan because the US requested it. Clock still broken. September 12, 2001:The UN Security Council issued Resolution 1368, condemning the attacks of September 11, offering deepest sympathy to the American people, and reaffirming the right of member nations (expressed in Article 51 of the UN Charter) to individual and collective self-defence. It also urged the world community to suppress terrorism and hold accountable all who aid, support or harbour the perpetrators, organizers and sponsors of terrorist acts, and stated that the UN was prepared to combat all forms of terrorism. September 20, 2001: Minister of National Defence Art Eggleton authorized more than 100 CF members serving on military exchange programs in the U.S. and other allied nations to participate in operations conducted by their host units in response to the September 11 terrorist attacks September 28, 2001: The UN Security Council issued Resolution 1373, setting out the methods by which member states were to root out terrorists and terrorist organizations, and deprive terrorists of the funds and materials necessary to conduct their operations. October 4, 2001: NATO Secretary General George Robertson announced that, in response to the terrorist attacks in the U.S., the North Atlantic Council (NATO's senior advisory body) was invoking Article 5 of the Treaty of Washington, which states that any attack on a NATO nation launched from outside that nation shall be interpreted as an attack on all the NATO nations. Normally broken clocks are right twice a day, I have to assume yours is digital. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
White Doors Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 12: 00 oclock... 12:00 oclock.. 12: 00 oclock... Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
Oleg Bach Posted November 27, 2008 Author Report Posted November 27, 2008 12: 00 oclock...12:00 oclock.. 12: 00 oclock... Yours was right three times a day....................................................................wow.. of couse it's digital - Young people can not tell time on the twelve numeraled round clock and if it has Roman numerals they are screwed........................."Dad what time is it?" Quote
White Doors Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 Yours was right three times a day....................................................................wow.. of couse it's digital - Young people can not tell time on the twelve numeraled round clock and if it has Roman numerals they are screwed........................."Dad what time is it?" My god.. Can someone get Oleg's prescription changed back to what it was 2 months ago please? We are getting 100 posts of spam a day from him now. At least real spam has porn attached to it sometimes. Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
Oleg Bach Posted November 27, 2008 Author Report Posted November 27, 2008 A shot of gin and perhaps a small doze of illegal opiate maybe helpful - ---- It's not that....I am at my daughters loft in artsyville - she has two dogs and has asked me to come by and walk them - She started a new job and does not have the time --------------- The address is close to the liquior store....I will go out and get a half mick of gin and get back to you...maybe a brain rinse is in order.............Truth is because of my damn committment to the stupid dogs I have a lot of time on my hands and THIS computer....back in a bit.....Beefeater calls. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 Not as long as they have bases and recruiting centres across the border among the mouth breathing sixth century tribesmen along the Pakistani border - and help from Pakistani and Iranian intelligence."mouth-breathing sixth century tribesmen"... man, you don't care whatsoever for tact, do you?Regardless, your point is an important one that needs to be addressed in this thread. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted November 27, 2008 Author Report Posted November 27, 2008 I am a mouth breathing 2nd century tribesman. What makes the writer believe that as you go forward into the grand future that your are evolving into somthing superiour to a primative? Going back in time may be evolutionary...who is to say who is better. Take a Prozac and imagine yourself as worthy of human existance...modernity is not all it's cracked up to be. Quote
Army Guy Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 Canada started its mission with snipers who killed individuals at the direction of their US commanders. Whether this was a noble thing to do is debatable but to argue this started as a humanitarian mission is just completely untrue. I never said it started out as a humanitary mission, it started out as a combat mission, and was changed intol a combat mission with exception of the rebuilding and humanitarian assistance added. Why should this seem so strange or unusual given the mission's goals changed three or four times along the way? Bullshit, give us a quote.... The military ALWAYS needs more troops so what's that got to do with it? As you seem to realize below, the mission needs more support first. Well I'd sayCanadians obviously need more of something too, and that's probably a clear consistent idea of what it is that we, not you, want to accomplish. There is a good fall back postion to take....we always need more troops and equipment....so sorry we are giving you a job that requires 5000 troops to complete here is 2500 make us proud....somwewhat like giving a contractor half the money you need to build your house....and expecting results the next day....only a contractor can tell you to stuff it...soldiers can not... And when one of our nations soldiers complains he is told suck it up, we gave you a mission now carry it out....it is what "we" the people of Canada want....A while that is what the people want they are to damn lazy to make thier voice heard.... I'm not taking the blame for this. Like a lot of Canadians at the time I said Ottawa shouldn't send troops to muck about a quagmire of other people's making. So it ain't me. I ain't no senators son. No your just the guy that is going to whine and complain about how Canada is run, not willing to do anything about it, just happy to have something to whine about... That's what you said after Rwanda. Why on Earth do you people keep volunteering for this humiliation? Surely there other less frustrating ways you could try to help the world. If there are any people on this planet who should be able to see the futility of using the military to clean up the mess that almost always attends the political and economic machinations of the rich and powerful it the soldiers sent to clean it up. Don't you people EVER reason why? Yes we reason why everyday, but our very existance depends on the people we serve...and if you don't have our backs then really we stuck out in the wind....alot of people only pay that responsabilty lip serve... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 Bullshit, give us a quote.... Okay. I never said it started out as a humanitary mission, it started out as a combat mission, and was changed intol a combat mission with exception of the rebuilding and humanitarian assistance added. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 Clock still broken.Normally broken clocks are right twice a day, I have to assume yours is digital. The only problem is Canada originally interfered in Afghanistan because the US requested it. I never said it started out as a humanitary mission, it started out as a combat mission, and was changed intol a combat mission with exception of the rebuilding and humanitarian assistance added.Army Guy The words of someone who was actually there trumps your's hands down. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Oleg Bach Posted November 27, 2008 Author Report Posted November 27, 2008 What do civilians expect of our miltary personal? Do they expect these loyal and dutiful individuals to suddenly rebel and turn on their civilian commander and chief? Correct or incorrect is not at issue. Things will resolve in time...in the meantime order must be maintained even if you don't like that order. When I worked for American film producers - and they operated as a disaplined military machine - If I was instructed to move a centimeter to the right - I moved - I took direction...If I moved improperly - the system would have collapsed. Our youth does not adhere to decipleship...If the play of life is to be successful we must run by the rules. Taking direction gets things done. My Father was an honour guard in the Kremlin. He also served as a covert operator in occupied Paris. Growing up with a military father gave me skills that ensure survival - don't degrade the military please. Quote
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