msj Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 I'm not going to waste any more time on BB in this thread. Let's get back to the original topic. I found this today and thought it was interesting and relevant. Note that I believe that the correlation between high oil prices and recessions is exactly that: a correlation. Causes are a different matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 I'm not going to waste any more time on BB in this thread. Let's get back to the original topic. I found this today and thought it was interesting and relevant. Note that I believe that the correlation between high oil prices and recessions is exactly that: a correlation. Causes are a different matter. Logic is a bitch isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Logic is a bitch isn't it? No, facts are a bitch. Maybe you two should meet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 No, facts are a bitch. Maybe you two should meet? I showed facts, gov't passed legislation essentially forcing banks to lend to trash. It's not my fault you can't realize that. It's not my fault you can't realize that the only reason banks will loan to trash is if they are forced to. If it was such a long term lucrative business, every billionaire would be "loaning" money out to anyone who walks in the office. Logic strikes again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted November 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 I showed facts, gov't passed legislation essentially forcing banks to lend to trash. It's not my fault you can't realize that.It's not my fault you can't realize that the only reason banks will loan to trash is if they are forced to. If it was such a long term lucrative business, every billionaire would be "loaning" money out to anyone who walks in the office. Logic strikes again!! Forcing a bank to loan to trash is also a Canadian thing. Has everyone forgotten how Jean Chretien forced a bank to give a loan to a buyer for his own property, even going to the extent to get the manager who had refused to do it fired? This was the essence of the Shawinigate scandal. The Americans have nothing on us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 My actions? How do you know what I do? Have you been following me? :angry: Oh, yeah. Ya caught me. Well, if that's the sort of technical documentary you're comfortable with I won't even try to compete. Ad hominem, ad hominem. Shades of Rabble. I'm not sure what the 'ad hominem' comment is about. You told me to do my own research so I went out and found something that supported your point of view. And it had roughly the same amount of technical depth as your link. Still, it adds to my point about how the environmentalists hate the idea of space development. Since technically it very well WOULD save the planet there must be a deeper reason! I'm going to ponder that one for a bit and then start a new thread. I've learned that apparent contradictions are often explained by premises and goals that actually are different than those officially stated. Sez you. As I said before, I think it's a fantastic idea. Tell me when it's going to work and we can ensure that we stretch our remaining resources until that time. I've read so many science magazines that talk about how wonderful our life is going to be by such and such a year. How many percent of these brain farts actually materialize in any reasonable amount of time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 I showed facts, gov't passed legislation essentially forcing banks to lend to trash. It's not my fault you can't realize that.It's not my fault you can't realize that the only reason banks will loan to trash is if they are forced to. If it was such a long term lucrative business, every billionaire would be "loaning" money out to anyone who walks in the office. Logic strikes again!! Your are mistaking assumptions for logic. The facts clearly show that the biggest dealers in sub prime debt to be banks that are not subject to the CRA. Not a surprise given that in a 2007 study it was found that only 1/3 of CRA related loans were considered to be sub prime. The facts show that while Freddie and Fannie were decreasing the amount of securitization from a 52% in 1992 to 24% in 2006. You simply assume that a bank that was subject to the CRA was forced to lend to anyone who is "low or moderate income" when those banks had the choice of which low and moderate income people to loan to. Investment banks were never subject to CRA and where are they now? How about the non-bank lenders not subject to CRA such as New Century and Ameriquest and who underwrote many of the sub prime loans? Now, I have not bothered to reference any of the above facts because they are all contained in the links (and the links within those links) that I have already provided. When one considers the facts one finds the evidence pointing to an overwhelming failure in the poorly regulated free market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Some one should give the arrogant and overly entitled Saudi Arabians a good bare bum spanking. These pricks toy with us as far as the price of oil is concerned and everyone is afraid of them. What is it with the west - do Saudis have secret nukes or something. The bored rich over there seem to resort to a sadism to get their jollies - a sadism that is international in scope. I would blame them in part and their cheese ball American and European oil merchant friends...cowardice has made us poor - again - why are we afraid of these spoiled brats in their white robes - that blow in the breeze trailing form their New Mercedes or Porche? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Some one should give the arrogant and overly entitled Saudi Arabians a good bare bum spanking. These pricks toy with us as far as the price of oil is concerned and everyone is afraid of them. What is it with the west - do Saudis have secret nukes or something. The bored rich over there seem to resort to a sadism to get their jollies - a sadism that is international in scope. I would blame them in part and their cheese ball American and European oil merchant friends...cowardice has made us poor - again - why are we afraid of these spoiled brats in their white robes - that blow in the breeze trailing form their New Mercedes or Porche? Or you could change your lifestyle to be less dependent on fossil fuels and thumb your noses at them. But if you like spanking, go fly over there and do it. Don't forget that their death penalty is beheading. Speaking of entitlement, why does it seem that almost everyone in North America think they have a God-given right to burn fossil fuels that took 500 million years to accumulate at whatever price they think they should pay? It seems to me like the Saudis aren't the only spoiled brats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 The US still thinks its the perfect example of capitalism and look where it is. LOL, not sure about you but I'd MUCH rather live in the US than Russia. Then again, I am sure you have been to neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 No it doesn't, it contributes to someones profit book. Some time in the future, people will hopefully work for the betterment of all of us with no profit and no money whatsoever involved. Stop watching Star Trek while you post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 And hopefully some day we'll get over that. Why? There is nothing evil about profit. Is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 People assume that those that are proud and rich and control the money suppy are smarter than they are. This is not always the case - It is a case of desire and ambition and choice. They chose to be rich and to accumulate more wealth - That is where there energy was dispersed. Others made other choices. When the end game comes about economically. We are all at a stale mate - The rich don't know how to proceed and we feel as if we are inferiour and lack the confidence to advise. We are all the same in the end. One is not better than the other - but ................both need help from both in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 LOL, not sure about you but I'd MUCH rather live in the US than Russia. Then again, I am sure you have been to neither. I'd rather not live in either country thanks. They've both blown it for pretty much identical reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 They have both blown themselves and each other - the rum is kicking in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Stop watching Star Trek while you post. That is in fact my inspiration, and I do hope that some day we can come to that level of maturity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 (edited) Why?There is nothing evil about profit. Is there? No, but often there are evil things involved in the quest for it. Look, I'm fine with our system the way it is right now, but I hope at some time we can work for the betterment of all peoplew ithout the need to be motivated by things such as profit. Some people do that work now, and some day I hope that all of us can. Edited November 27, 2008 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 No, but often there are evil things involved in the quest for it. Look, I'm fine with our system the way it is right now, but I hope at some time we can work for the betterment of all peoplew ithout the need to be motivated by things such as profit. Some people do that work now, and some day I hope that all of us can. So Bill Gates and Warren Buffet giving hundreds of billions of dollars to charity is bad because they were initially motivated by profit? I don't think you have put too much thought into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 So Bill Gates and Warren Buffet giving hundreds of billions of dollars to charity is bad because they were initially motivated by profit? That's not what I said. Often there is evil involved in the quest, not always. Some people will go to any length to get profit. That's not true of everyone. And again, I hope that some day we come to a time where charity isn't even necessary. Why were those people left behind? How could we prevent that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 That's not what I said. Often there is evil involved in the quest, not always. Some people will go to any length to get profit. That's not true of everyone. And again, I hope that some day we come to a time where charity isn't even necessary. Why were those people left behind? How could we prevent that? What if some people wanted to be left behind - would they be allowed to be left behind in your world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 What if some people wanted to be left behind - would they be allowed to be left behind in your world? That depends on what you mean by left behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 That depends on what you mean by left behind. No, it depends on what you mean by 'betterment of all people'. Your definition of 'betterment' may not be shared by all people. It sure isn't shared by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 No, it depends on what you mean by 'betterment of all people'.Your definition of 'betterment' may not be shared by all people. It sure isn't shared by me. What is my definition? I know it, I don't see how you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 I showed facts, gov't passed legislation essentially forcing banks to lend to trash. It's not my fault you can't realize that.It's not my fault you can't realize that the only reason banks will loan to trash is if they are forced to. If it was such a long term lucrative business, every billionaire would be "loaning" money out to anyone who walks in the office. Logic strikes again!! US Ignored Warning to Tighten Lending Rules WASHINGTON — The Bush administration backed off proposed crackdowns on no-money-down, interest-only mortgages years before the economy collapsed, buckling to pressure from some of the same banks that have now failed. It ignored remarkably prescient warnings that foretold the financial meltdown, according to an Associated Press review of regulatory documents. You & Wild Bill are plain out to lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 What is my definition? I know it, I don't see how you can. Your mode to provide 'betterment' is in itself a detriment in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.