Lest We Forget

[bush_cheney2004]

Bush some people's ignorance really angers me. Lol but then some of us can't help it..others however....I will hold my breath on this one and state I actually was fortunate enough to have an relative who served as a psychiatrist in the US Army in WW2. He actually had some very interesting stories about Nuremberg.

Right...there are thousands upon thousands of such stories that, woven together, give us the fabric of war from many perspectives. There is an audio archives project being produced for public radio that is feverishly trying to interview the WW2 and Korean War vets and families before they pass away. Turns out that the oral histories can be more powerful than celluloid images.

He did spend some time telling me a bit about the code talkers. I am sure you saw the movie that came out a few years back. Read some other stuff on it. An amazing story especially the part how they could not be taken alive and what that meant.

Hollywood treated the topic with respect, but long before that I was aware of their efforts because of crypto training in the military. Moreover, many Americans do not realize how patriotic a majority of Native Americans feel about their land, country, and contributions during the war(s). Seems counter-intuitive given native history, but the warrior spirit (and pride) is alive and well.

I am not sure how you tell a vet or soldier how awesome freedom is and how grateful I am for it and what their role is in assuring it. It just can't come out in words.

That's the true honor of their service....preserving such freedoms with deeds while expecting (and often getting) little in return.

Edited November 12, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[kengs333]

Thank you for the nice post/thoughts, Capricorn. I'd like to add my thoughts to yours, and add American soldiers to our thoughts and prayers-- as well as all of our other allies who have served, fought, died, been wounded along with our troops. May we never take our countries and freedoms for granted.

Godspeed, Army Guy. You remain in my thoughts.

What about German soldiers who almost single-handedly took on the Red Army (your allies) during WWII and likely stopped Communism from dominating the world?

[M.Dancer]

What about German soldiers who almost single-handedly took on the Red Army (your allies) during WWII and likely stopped Communism from dominating the world?

And how...ummm...did those Nazi Germans do against the Red Army? I hear they likely stopped them from dominating the world in your universe.

[bush_cheney2004]

I object to the way it is used today to promote militarism in schools. On rememberance day they sent a military guy to give a speech at my kids high-school, and he went on about the Taliban, showing pictures of "the face of the enemy" etc.

Your right to object has been so preserved.

To me Remembrance day has become a day to glorify the military, not remember the sacrifices made in the world wars. We have pretty much forgetten those days and their events, our leaders ignore the laws of the Geneva conventions, things like torture, unlawful detention and first-strikes. If we want to honour the vets we should also remember those things, lest they happen again caused by us.

Different topic for another thread. You can do the John Kerry stchick somewhere else. Remembrance / Veterans / Memorial Day(s) are for honoring the efforts by those who have served with our respect and thanks. I took my teenager to an NFL game on Sunday, which featured an opening veterans ceremony. When he didn't stand up, he got a little parental instruction.

[kengs333]

I object to the way it is used today to promote militarism in schools. On rememberance day they sent a military guy to give a speech at my kids high-school, and he went on about the Taliban, showing pictures of "the face of the enemy" etc.

Militarism isn't necessarily a bad thing, though; the problem is that our current military is populated largely by people of questionable moral and intellectual character. The type of militarism that our society needs ended in 1914 due to flawed political leadership that misused the military for petty reasons. A militarism that instills in men of a givien society positive characterists--honesty, integrity, devotion to duty, discipline, morality, etc.--is a good thing. It would create a society where crime and vice would decline sharply, and such a society benefits all who live in it.

To me Remembrance day has become a day to glorify the military, not remember the sacrifices made in the world wars. We have pretty much forgetten those days and their events, our leaders ignore the laws of the Geneva conventions, things like torture, unlawful detention and first-strikes. If we want to honour the vets we should also remember those things, lest they happen again caused by us.

Glorifying is not something I've ever seen at any RD ceremony that I've watched or attended.

[kengs333]

And how...ummm...did those Nazi Germans do against the Red Army? I hear they likely stopped them from dominating the world in your universe.

They certainly did enough damage to keep them from rolling all the way through France and Italy and pushing the American, etc. right off the continent; like I said, the Soviets were kept from making Communism a global phenomonon.

[kengs333]

That's the true honor of their service....preserving such freedoms with deeds while expecting (and often getting) little in return.

WWII in Europe was largely won, for lack of a better word, by the Soviets; the Soviets being a more brutal regime than the Nazis, the US etc. still decided to ally with them. So in reality, many of your "freedoms" are thanks not only to members of the Wehrmacht, but the Red Army as well. If the US was really concerned about freedom it would have joined the war in 1939, not the end of 1941.

[M.Dancer]

They certainly did enough damage to keep them from rolling all the way through France and Italy and pushing the American, etc. right off the continent; like I said, the Soviets were kept from making Communism a global phenomonon.

right.....because ...you know, in your universe the Russians started the war and the Nazis bravely defended Europe and Texas...

[M.Dancer]

Militarism isn't necessarily a bad thing, though; the problem is that our current military is populated largely by people of questionable moral and intellectual character.

Is this sort of trolling really necessary?

[kengs333]

right.....because ...you know, in your universe the Russians started the war and the Nazis bravely defended Europe and Texas...

I've never believed or claimed that. But I know it's not beyond your type to make such twisted falacious arguments, so it's to be expected I suppose.

The Germans did have legitimate issues in Eastern Europe dating back well before 1933, but it's too bad that the international community didn't do anything about it allowing for someone like Hitler to come along and give it a go...

[kengs333]

Is this sort of trolling really necessary?

Making factual statements isn't trolling; accusing others of trolling is.

Sadly, you and a few others here seem to have a special status around here and can make ad hom attacks with impunity. I've seen the list that's being compiled elsewhere of members who were in the service, but I'm starting to wonder what kind of services these members really render.

Another issue that I have with modern day militaries is the prevelance of homosexuality and homo-erotic behaviour among (supposedly) non-homosexual members.

[M.Dancer]

Making factual statements isn't trolling; accusing others of trolling is.

Fair enough...

Militarism isn't necessarily a bad thing, though; the problem is that our current military is populated largely by people of questionable moral and intellectual character.

If that is a factual statement then back it up with a factual citation.

Otherwise you are trolling and insulting a 3rd party which is a violation of the rules.

[M.Dancer]

Another issue that I have with modern day militaries is the prevelance of homosexuality and homo-erotic behaviour among (supposedly) non-homosexual members.

Citation....or is this more trolling?

[Army Guy]

Militarism isn't necessarily a bad thing, though; the problem is that our current military is populated largely by people of questionable moral and intellectual character. The type of militarism that our society needs ended in 1914 due to flawed political leadership that misused the military for petty reasons. A militarism that instills in men of a givien society positive characterists--honesty, integrity, devotion to duty, discipline, morality, etc.--is a good thing. It would create a society where crime and vice would decline sharply, and such a society benefits all who live in it.

I know, i took it hook line and sinker....Perhaps you can provide some examples of this questionable moral fibre, maybe throw in some of those questionable intellectual character flaws you have said that run rampant in our forces today.

Or did you just pull this out of your ass,.... just your opinion, ....or do you have some poll to quote....I don't think we've been introduced, I'm currently in Afgan serving with our questionable moral and intellectual forces, currently surrounded by 8 of my section mates, yes don't worry they all are morally and intellectually bankrupt as well...none the less we would all be very interested in how you pull such a big idea out of your tight ass.

Forgive me if some of us sound pissed off, we get that way when some condescending prick can make a blanket statement as he or she does. All the while living the dream made possiable by yesterdays and todays soldiers. But then again this is normally how the peace nik radicals start thier attacks from behind a computer screen, 40 to 50 ft up some BC pine....but hey we are just going to stop our little part of the war here, and await your fine come back....

[kengs333]

Or did you just pull this out of your ass,.... just your opinion, ....or do you have some poll to quote....I don't think we've been introduced, I'm currently in Afgan serving with our questionable moral and intellectual forces, currently surrounded by 8 of my section mates, yes don't worry they all are morally and intellectually bankrupt as well...none the less we would all be very interested in how you pull such a big idea out of your tight ass.

See what I mean? Homo-eroticisim...

[kengs333]

Fair enough...

If that is a factual statement then back it up with a factual citation.

Otherwise you are trolling and insulting a 3rd party which is a violation of the rules.

See post #64, paragraph three...

[kengs333]

Citation....or is this more trolling?

Come on! Seriously? You don't know...?

[M.Dancer]

See what I mean? Homo-eroticisim...

I don't which you are, certifiable nuts, in which case you have my pity, or an idiot.

[kengs333]

I don't which you are, certifiable nuts, in which case you have my pity, or an idiot.

What would you say if I said I was a Jew?

[M.Dancer]

What would you say if I said I was a Jew?

I would say I don't which you are, certifiable nuts, in which case you have my pity, or an idiot.

[kengs333]

I would say I don't which you are, certifiable nuts, in which case you have my pity, or an idiot.

you must be an anti-semite...

[Sir Bandelot]

Your right to object has been so preserved.

Different topic for another thread. You can do the John Kerry stchick somewhere else. Remembrance / Veterans / Memorial Day(s) are for honoring the efforts by those who have served with our respect and thanks. I took my teenager to an NFL game on Sunday, which featured an opening veterans ceremony. When he didn't stand up, he got a little parental instruction.

Yeah I bet your a big bully at home. I on the other hand raised my objections when we discussed it at the dinner table, with all 3 of my kids listening. So while it may not mean much to you and some others here, I do have a place where I get my point across, in my own way. And if I choose to bring it into this or any other topic on here, that is not for you to say whats allowed or whats not. So, enjoy

[Sir Bandelot]

A militarism that instills in men of a givien society positive characterists--honesty, integrity, devotion to duty, discipline, morality, etc.--is a good thing. It would create a society where crime and vice would decline sharply, and such a society benefits all who live in it.

I agree with it. The problem is that political leaders who lick the hands of big business interests will abuse that devotion that is the military, for their own purposes. The challenge for citizens is to hold them accountable, to protect our troops from an abuse of power. So I have no problem voicing my objection when I see that a war is un-just. It doesn't mean I am unpartriotic or don't support the military, quite the opposite. The worst kind are the bobble-heads who always agree with anything they're told from our leaders, they have no idea what the corruption and abuse of power can do.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[Oleg Bach]

What would you say if I said I was a Jew?

Not getting personal but that is stupid. If you are a Jew and you practice the great religion that is wonderful - if you call yourself a Jew and are a secularist that expects special treatment when conducting buisness in our courts and other institutions I suggest you curb your use of a religion as a shield to practice corruption...either be a Jew or drop the title and the entitlement.

[M.Dancer]

I do have a place where I get my point across, in my own way.

Yeah I bet you're a bully at home.