When Will The NDP Form Its First Government?

[Pellaken]

I went with 2012

[maplesyrup]

Sooner than you may think.- check latest Ipsos Reid poll in BC

[theWatcher]

Since the poll question was first government you have to rule out BC and Ontario, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, etc...

So it's reasonable to assume the question meant Federal government.

The logical answer in that case is never.

[maplesyrup]

Jeffery Simpson, no NDP fan, mentions about the increasing NDP fortunes nationwide in his column today in the globe and Mail

[sir_springer]

I couldn't find, "When hell freezes over."

So I settled for, "Never".

The day the NDP form a federal government, I'll be with millions of other Canadians down at the border seeking refugee status...

At least until Alberta and BC pull the plug. I figure a week, tops.

[NDP Newbie]

Sadly, never.

[August1991]

Sooner than any of us think. The Nightmare Scenario:

A Bloc Québécois/NDP Coalition Government. Putting People First by giving All Things to All the People

[NDP Newbie]

Sooner than any of us think. The Nightmare Scenario:

A Bloc Québécois/NDP Coalition Government.  Putting People First by giving All Things to All the People

The BQ is not an ideology homogenous organisation.

That may make things messy.

I hope there comes a time when the Libs and BQ don't add to a majority.

Electoral reform will never happen as long as the assclowns benefitting from the screwed up system remain in power.

At least the Charestberals are doing something: They've been screwed out of power by unfair election results far too many times to not know how it feels.

[Dennis]

Never.

If you buy into the notion that this country can only have two parties at a time vying for power, than the NDP will never be one of those any time soon unless it finally decides to change its strategy.

Instead of trying to be the leftist conscience of the Liberal Party, it has to decide to REPLACE the Liberals as one of the governing alternatives, just as Labour did to the Liberals in the UK.

That's my opinion.

And, since that is not going to happen soon, and probably never will happen, the NDP will never form governmnet in this country.

And Jack Layton is certainly not running as though he wants to form government.

He has already admitted to the reality that the best he can hope for is to be a power broker in a minority government scenario.

His policy stances, being primarily anti-capitalist, also suggest he has no desire to replace the Liberals any time soon as a genuine choice for mainstream Canadians.

Does this country's Left love Jack Layton? Yes. I just don't think too many other people do.

And the NDP doesn't look like it wants to change that any time soon.

Maybe continued fringe status will wake them up. Or maybe it will send them into oblivion. I don't know.

Government? Who are you kidding?

[August1991]

If you buy into the notion that this country can only have two parties at a time vying for power, than the NDP will never be one of those any time soon unless it finally decides to change its strategy.

Instead of trying to be the leftist conscience of the Liberal Party, it has to decide to REPLACE the Liberals as one of the governing alternatives, just as Labour did to the Liberals in the UK.

These kinds of comments always make me laugh. Canada is not divided on ideological grounds like the US, France, the UK (to pick examples most Canadians know). Canada will never have a left wing party and a right wing party fighting over the middle.

Canada is fundamentally divided on linguistic and nationalistic grounds. Religion plays a part that only a Newfoundlander can surmise. IMO, English Canadians have always missed these points.

Don't believe me? Here's an idea to ponder: about half of Canadians are Catholic. About 20% of Americans are Catholic. Kennedy was the only Catholic President. How many of ours were, (even the English-speaking ones).

Now, how do American Catholics vote?

Sometimes I think English-Canadians have such a silly view of their own country. (Should I blame the CBC?)

[maplesyrup]

Lets see:

Martin is Catholic

Chretien is Catholic

Mulroney is Catholic

Turner is Catholic

Trudeau was Catholic

Maybe you have to be Catholic to be PM in Canada

oops, forgot about Joe Clark - is he Catholic too?

What about harper and Layton?

[August1991]

Clark, yes for sure. Layton, I suspect yes. Probably lapsed. (Anyone know?) Harper, I'd bet no.

Lapsed? David Peterson claimed to be a "lapsed Protestant". That one drove my neighbour into paroxysms. "You can be a lapsed Catholic, he said, but never a lapsed Protestant!" I was in stitches.

[maplesyrup]

No wonder the Pope likes Canada.

[August1991]

Pope like Canada? Have you ever met an American Catholic?

They love us!

(BTW, Michael Moore is an American Catholic.)

[NDP Newbie]

Clark, yes for sure. Layton, I suspect yes. Probably lapsed. (Anyone know?) Harper, I'd bet no.

Lapsed? David Peterson claimed to be a "lapsed Protestant". That one drove my neighbour into paroxysms. "You can be a lapsed Catholic, he said, but never a lapsed Protestant!" I was in stitches.

An Anglo-Quebecker with an English last name?

Likely some form of Anglican Church of Canada.

[Dennis]

Sometimes I think English-Canadians have such a silly view of their own country.

Alright, smart guy. Maybe you can tell me when Conservatives and Liberals HAVE NOT been one of the ruling parties in this country.

If you can't, then I suggest you ask yourself just who's being silly.

Sometimes, I really don't know where some of this stuff comes from. People ought to think about what they write before posting.

[August1991]

Alright, smart guy.

Me? Smart?

Listen, I meant that American Catholics (20% of Americans, Michael Moore et al) vote Democrat. In Canada, we are about 50% Catholic and we tend to take the same view as American Catholics.

But more, Canada is fundamentally divided by language (and nationality). Until this "schism" gets sorted out, we won't have ideological parties.

For this reason, Canadian politics are not like American politics. Maybe I'm wrong but these facts seem obvious to me. Few in English Canada seem willing to admit to them.

[Dennis]

For this reason, Canadian politics are not like American politics.

I didn't even mention American politics.

I suggest you quit while you're ahead.

The question posed in this topic was whether the NDP could ever form a government.

I believe that's exactly what I tried answering.

Mayber you should try leaving your english-bashing at home, my friend.

There's no place for it in this thread.

[Alliance Fanatic]

I think that if the NDP won government, then Alberta would probably seperate. Saskatchewan may also seperate, while people in Saskatchewan have supported the NDP, they have hoped that they could get a socially conservative, yet economic nationalist like Douglas, but that will never happen. Their would also probably be a mass exodus of people moving to the US, afterall, if the NDP won, then were basically the Cuba of the North.

[maplesyrup]

Was there not a little right wing corruption in Saskatchewan?

[August1991]

The question posed in this topic was whether the NDP could ever form a government.

I believe that's exactly what I tried answering.

Mayber you should try leaving your english-bashing at home, my friend.

My mother would be upset to learn that I had been accused of "English-bashing".

If I recall, Dennis, you suggested that, to form a government, the NDP would have to supplant the Liberal Party - as Labour did in the UK - and then Canada would have a proper left/right split.

I answered by saying that was impossible because Canada is NOT divided on ideological but rather linguistic and nationalistic grounds. I then offered the observation that Canadians share many of the same viewpoints as American Catholics. These are features of the Canadian political landscape that English Canadians too often ignore.

I think these points are extremely relevant in discussing the NDP.

Now, does this constitute English-bashing? If you believe so, then I apologize. No offense was intended.

[Dennis]

Now, does this constitute English-bashing? If you believe so, then I apologize. No offense was intended.

Let's see:

Sometimes I think English-Canadians have such a silly view of their own country.

and

Maybe I'm wrong but these facts seem obvious to me. Few in English Canada seem willing to admit to them.

I think I have every reason to believe so, based on the very words you provided us.

You seem to possess a kind of arrogance when it comes to us 'English-Canadians'. We don't have a clue in comparison to you, even though we know that only two parties have formed governments in this country, without stating the obvious that we are different from the UK and the US.

My proposal was the the NDP has to be the left-wing party of choice to govern in this country. Stupid English-Canadian.

And your proposal was?

[August1991]

My proposal was the the NDP has to be the left-wing party of choice to govern in this country. Stupid English-Canadian.

And your proposal was?

There are some 20 million or so English Canadians. I would be surprised, no stupified, to discover they were all stupid.

"And your proposal was?" Federal parties must deal first with the linguistic, national, regional nature of the country. Then, they can consider political ideology.

Sometimes I think English-Canadians have such a silly view of their own country. (Should I blame the CBC?)

Dennis, judging by your posts, am I wrong in assuming that you sometimes (often?) believe the CBC is silly?

[BigGunner]

I think that if the NDP won government, then Alberta would probably seperate. Saskatchewan may also seperate, while people in Saskatchewan have supported the NDP, they have hoped that they could get a socially conservative, yet economic nationalist like Douglas, but that will never happen. Their would also probably be a mass exodus of people moving to the US, afterall, if the NDP won, then were basically the Cuba of the North.

Cuba of the north.....that is priceless..

You are very skilled at tossing rabid insults rather than engaging in meaningful debate.

Perhaps you could share with the rest of us how many people have been locked up or excecuted for 'political dissent' by NDP governments? None? Thats right!

But conservative party idols, the Republicans in America have tens of thousands of arabic looking prisoners locked up and beaten, held without trial, access to lawyers, or any human rights in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba..

Oh, I get it. America is the Cuba of the North - where opposing the government's agenda can endanger your life.

[MapleLeafMerc]

NDP federal government? God help Canada.

I don't know how religion could possibly have any bearing on this discussion, except in Poli Sci class.

And yes, Canada does have a conservative/liberal split. The NDP is simply the last echoes of "you don't get me, I'm part of the union" slowly fading away...