punked Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Looks like Harper almost gave the PQ the win with his Quebec hating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Looks like Harper almost gave the PQ the win with his Quebec hating.There you go, just like Americans and men.It's no longer about Quebec, it's about Canada and Harper. ---- Only a party like the PQ could win 35% of the popular vote and then convince themselves that it's a victory. The one seat win of QS will attract alot of attention in the Plateau crowd. He's the Mario Dumont of the urban Montreal left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 There you go, just like Americans and men.It's no longer about Quebec, it's about Canada and Harper. ---- Only a party like the PQ could win 35% of the popular vote and then convince themselves that it's a victory. The one seat win of QS will attract alot of attention in the Plateau crowd. He's the Mario Dumont of the urban Montreal left. Considering where the Liberals were polling before Harpers player hating on Quebec and after I think one might think of it more as a loss for the Federalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Considering where the Liberals were polling before Harpers player hating on Quebec and after I think one might think of it more as a loss for the Federalist. Nope a win is a win. If hating on Quebec was such an issue, the PQ would have won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Nope a win is a win. If hating on Quebec was such an issue, the PQ would have won. Depends if you look at it from the CPC point of view. The CPC needs to maintain some seats in Quebec. And if this bridge burning is any indication, you who wish to have another federal election, must be prepared to lose seats in Quebec. Tonight, Quebeckers utterly destroyed Harper’s closest Québec ally in what is undoubtedly the first referendum on the future of Harper’s government in light of the potential for a federal coalition.Tonight, the far-right wing provincial party, the ADQ, was reduced from official opposition status with the 41 seats it won in the last provincial election, to third party status with just 7 seats projected by CBC as of 11:03 EST. Due in no small part to Mario Dumont’s support of Harper, his party went from official opposition status to losing its official party status in the Quebec National Assembly Ouch, lost official party status.... Personally, I think 7 seats should be enough for official party status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Dumont has resigned as ADQ leader. Does anyone see Mario as a Conservative candidate in the next federal election? I do. This would be a boost for the Conservatives who are desperate to regain lost territory in Quebec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted December 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Dumont has resigned as ADQ leader. Does anyone see Mario as a Conservative candidate in the next federal election? I do.This would be a boost for the Conservatives who are desperate to regain lost territory in Quebec. Does anyone trust Dumont? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted December 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Congrats to Charest in repeating victory. Could be trying times ahead. He will have to manage well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Personally, I think 7 seats should be enough for official party status. It would have been if they had gotten 20% of the vote. They were a few points short of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Dumont has resigned as ADQ leader. Does anyone see Mario as a Conservative candidate in the next federal election? I do.This would be a boost for the Conservatives who are desperate to regain lost territory in Quebec. In his speech, he said that he has given over 20 years to political life and now he wants to pay more attention to his young family.It is possible that he might run as a Conservative in a federal election but Dumont has refused such entreaties before and he tends to guard his independence. He says things that might not be welcome in a governing party. ----- Few people note that the ADQ kept about 17% of the popular vote (compared to the Tories 21% in the federal election). I think that given their location, Harper will keep about 10 seats or so seats in Quebec in the next federal election. ----- The support for the ADQ came from people who are tired of the fight between federalists vs. sovereignists. Charest became a little more nationalist and Marois dropped the referendum promise and this made the two parties a little more palatable. If Charest and Marois start in again on the squabbling, expect to see another third party arise. I don't see the Bloc doing well in the next federal election against Ignatieff. Duceppe is too close to the likes of Quebec solidaire and Bloc voters outside of Montreal could go elsewhere. The Bloc may choose a new leader though. Duceppe has said that plans to retire sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Dumont has resigned as ADQ leader. Does anyone see Mario as a Conservative candidate in the next federal election? I do. Did he lose his own seat? Yes I do re Fed Canadidate. This would be a boost for the Conservatives who are desperate to regain lost territory in Quebec. I would agree with you, if I had any understanding of Quebec Politics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 It would have been if they had gotten 20% of the vote. They were a few points short of it. 20% is a very high threshold under any circumstances. More Realistic would be in the 10 to 13% range. And I think 7 seats would be enough for official party status under any circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 (edited) I will have to take your word for it. Your predictions were pretty damn good.... Edited December 10, 2008 by Charles Anthony deleted re-copied previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Did he lose his own seat? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 20% is a very high threshold under any circumstances. More Realistic would be in the 10 to 13% range. And I think 7 seats would be enough for official party status under any circumstance. I agree, but I don't make the rules . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Am I to understand that a Quebec Separtist, defeated a Quebec Separtist? QS over PQ? Ok, and these splitters, spliting from the ones who want to split from Canada, still got more votes then the Green Party, and A Seat on top of that? Québec solidaire is a broadly left-wing, feminist and sovereignist political party in Quebec, Canada, that was created on February 4, 2006 in Montreal. It was formed by the merger of the left-wing party Union des forces progressistes (UFP) and the altermondialist political movement Option Citoyenne, led by Françoise David.The party advocates sovereignty for Quebec. It also hopes to appeal to environmentalists, feminists and socialists. The Green Party had a 26 year head start, and this party that "appeals to environmentalists who want to leave Canada" and was created in 2006.... , just won a seat.... But wait.... it gets better The ADQ candidate finishes a dismal 5th And there is an another, 3rd Separtist Candidate.... Now it is an entertaining riding. I just don't get it... that's all. Party Candidate Votes % ±% Québec solidaire Amir Khadir 8,861 Parti Québécois Daniel Turp 7,989 Liberal Catherine Emond 4940 Green Olivier Adam 833 3.58 Action démocratique Élisa Fortin-Toutant 575 Parti indépendantiste Jean-Marc Labrèche 83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 (edited) 20% is a very high threshold under any circumstances. More Realistic would be in the 10 to 13% range. And I think 7 seats would be enough for official party status under any circumstance. The Quebec law is designed to exclude a splinter anglo party from obtaining official status. Both the Liberals and the PQ had reason to support the rule.Am I to understand that a Quebec Separtist, defeated a Quebec Separtist? QS over PQ?Uh, not really. You have to understand urban North America to understand Québec solidaire and to really understand QS, you have to understand le Plateau Mont-Royal district of Montreal. IMHO, Amir Khadir is the Ambassador of the Sovereign People's Republic of the Plateau to Quebec's National Assembly. It's delightful question whether Khadir supports the independance of Quebec or not. (I suppose he'll have to ask Françoise David first... )Amir Khadir (and QS) are radical leftists. Khadir openly hypothesiizes that the US government was behind the 9/11 attacks. If I had to pick an English Canadian equivalent, Sven Robinson and Hedy Fry would probably find Khadir delightfully radical. I frankly think that QS is a dying gasp of the boomer generation. In a decade or two, such politicians and parties will not exist. In the meantime, such parties will cause havoc for mainstream parties seeking votes among urban, left-leaning boomers. Edited December 10, 2008 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 The Quebec law is designed to exclude a splinter anglo party from obtaining official status. Both the Liberals and the PQ had reason to support the rule. Not quite the explanation I was expecting. That is a surprising/disturbing answer.Uh, not really. You have to understand urban North America to understand Québec solidaire and to really understand QS, you have to understand le Plateau Mont-Royal district of Montreal. IMHO, Amir Khadir is the Ambassador of the Sovereign People's Republic of the Plateau to Quebec's National Assembly. It's delightful question whether Khadir supports the independance of Quebec or not. (I suppose he'll have to ask Françoise David first... ) I give up Amir Khadir (and QS) are radical leftists. Khadir openly hypothesiizes that the US government was behind the 9/11 attacks. If I had to pick an English Canadian equivalent, Sven Robinson and Hedy Fry would probably find Khadir delightfully radical.I frankly think that QS is a dying gasp of the boomer generation. In a decade or two, such politicians and parties will not exist. In the meantime, such parties will cause havoc for mainstream parties seeking votes among urban, left-leaning boomers. Thanks for the insight. Not that I am any smarter for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 C'est l'électorat adéquiste, et surtout lui, qui est resté à la maison en début de semaine. Elle est là , la dégringolade sur le plan de la participation.Deux nombres doivent être mis en parallèle pour le comprendre. Par rapport à mars 2007, plus de 720 000 Québécois ont boudé les urnes. Combien de votes en moins pour l'Action démocratique du Québec? Près de 695 000. C'est une illusion de croire que la désaffection a été généralisée. Si elle l'avait été, elle aurait affecté tous les partis. Or, ça n'a pas été le cas. Le PLQ et le PQ ont gagné des voix. ... Au moins l'ADQ reconnaît qu'elle a un Everest à gravir. Le PLQ et le PQ, eux, se bercent d'illusions. Ils ne semblent pas voir qu'ils sont face à un mont Blanc, que très peu de nouveaux électeurs se sont tournés vers eux. Ils n'ont pas réussi à raccrocher les décrocheurs adéquistes. Ces citoyens demeurent politiquement orphelins. La clé de la prochaine victoire est dans ce vivier d'électeurs. Des électeurs qu'on chercherait en vain à gauche et qui, par dépit, colère ou sentiment d'injustice, appellent à des changements profonds. Le SoleilThere is some truth to this analysis. Many ADQ voters simply stayed home. These are voters who do not see themselves either in the PQ or the PLQ but were disinterested by Dumont. Harper could have had these voters in the last federal election but he lost them, and reports of his intervention against "separatists" may have lost them for good. Ignatieff may get these voters but Ignatieff is too urban and too pretentious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Le SoleilThere is some truth to this analysis. Many ADQ voters simply stayed home. These are voters who do not see themselves either in the PQ or the PLQ but were disinterested by Dumont. Harper could have had these voters in the last federal election but he lost them, and reports of his intervention against "separatists" may have lost them for good. Ignatieff may get these voters but Ignatieff is too urban and too pretentious. Good God what are Quebec voters, a bunch of women? God help you if you buy her an ab flex exercise apparatus for Christmas. The same reaction occured when Harper tried to sell fiscal conservatism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 The same reaction occurred when Harper tried to sell fiscal conservatism. That's probably because they knew he didn't even know what those two words meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 That's probably because they knew he didn't even know what those two words meant. Because he is trying to by urban centrist votes. Urban voters more often than not like their gov't services. They also like tax cuts. Plus harper had to look like he's working with the opposition. If Harper slashed spending, you would be crying out that he's heartless. Hating Harper is the new "cool" thing to do in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 If Harper slashed spending, you would be crying out that he's heartless. Depends on where he made the slashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted December 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Because he is trying to by urban centrist votes. Urban voters more often than not like their gov't services. Farmers love them too. They eat up those farmer subsidies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Farmers love them too. They eat up those farmer subsidies. Wouldn't need them if farmer's taxes weren't paying doctor's salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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