Crimea

[August1991]

Many Russians consider Crimea, which has an ethnic Russian majority and a Russian naval base on the Black Sea, an integral part of Russia.

If it becomes the next flash point between Russia and the West, Mr. Luzhkov will in no small part be responsible. He has nurtured separatist groups in Crimea that since the Georgia conflict have a new battle cry: we will be next.

NYT

Regardless of who becomes President, I think that Putin knows that America does not have the stomach to object.

[Shugo]

Unless, of course, they become a member of NATO before Russia begins to stoke separatism.

[MMT]

Read this:

Would Russia get Crimea by unleashing war in Kurdistan?

http://markthomas.newsvine.com/_news/2008/...ar-in-kurdistan

The fact is that, as a result, the ethnic Russians could be cleansed from Crimea like they were cleansed from Checnya already.

[Brezhnev]

Unless, of course, they become a member of NATO before Russia begins to stoke separatism.

The main thing that NATO realised some things. 80 % of the population of Ukraine against the introduction into NATO. If Ukraine enters NATO it will lead to country split to the western and east Ukraine. Certainly Crimea in this case remains in the east.

[kengs333]

Read this:

Would Russia get Crimea by unleashing war in Kurdistan?

http://markthomas.newsvine.com/_news/2008/...ar-in-kurdistan

The fact is that, as a result, the ethnic Russians could be cleansed from Crimea like they were cleansed from Checnya already.

Yeah, just like ethnic Germans were cleansed from the region, as well. The difference is that the ethnic Germans were hard working and industrious, the rabble ethnic Russians would be no loss.

[Adhesion]

can you say when exactly ethnic Germans were cleansed?

[M.Dancer]

can you say when exactly ethnic Germans were cleansed?

1941. August 6. Wednesday. Between 11:00 and 8:00 PM

It was sunny.

[Adhesion]

any links to that? numbers, etc. and IF that is true, then how can you explain the same thing that US did with the Japanese, which were living on it's territory during the war? so you can say - it's a normal practice. But it's only during the war. Are you saying, that Crimean Tatars are at war against Russians?

[Adhesion]

any links to that? numbers, etc. and IF that is true, then how can you explain the same thing that US did with the Japanese, which were living on it's territory during the war? so you can say - it's a normal practice. But it's only during the war. Are you saying, that Crimean Tatars are at war against Russians?

[M.Dancer]

any links to that? numbers, etc. and IF that is true, then how can you explain the same thing that US did with the Japanese, which were living on it's territory during the war? so you can say - it's a normal practice. But it's only during the war. Are you saying, that Crimean Tatars are at war against Russians?

It's a very easy google.

Ethnic Germans Crimea

[Adhesion]

I'll check. so what about japanese, eh?

[Adhesion]

I couldn't find information about ethnic cleansing of Germans in Crimea. It says, that in 1939 there were 60000 of them. I think that like Tatars they were moved to the other parts of USSR but they haven't been killed if you mean it.

[August1991]

I couldn't find information about ethnic cleansing of Germans in Crimea. It says, that in 1939 there were 60000 of them. I think that like Tatars they were moved to the other parts of USSR but they haven't been killed if you mean it.

Uh, I don't think you know well the history of Europe or the history of Central and Eastern Europe. (FYI, Russia's Catherine the Great was born in Prussia.)

----

I suspect that Putin/Medvedev know that Obama has no stomach to oppose a claim to Crimea. Obama has other more serious problems. And in fact, who cares about the Crimea? The US is not the world's policeman.

So, here's the question: is Obama an isolationist?

[Wilber]

any links to that? numbers, etc. and IF that is true, then how can you explain the same thing that US did with the Japanese, which were living on it's territory during the war? so you can say - it's a normal practice. But it's only during the war. Are you saying, that Crimean Tatars are at war against Russians?

Not quite. The Japanese were removed from coastal areas of North America (Canada to) out of a paranoia founded in racism. They were not expelled from the country and many returned to coastal communities after the war. Their treatment was not something to be proud of but neither was it ethnic cleansing as we have come to know it.

[MMT]

Uh, I don't think you know well the history of Europe or the history of Central and Eastern Europe. (FYI, Russia's Catherine the Great was born in Prussia.)

----

I suspect that Putin/Medvedev know that Obama has no stomach to oppose a claim to Crimea. Obama has other more serious problems. And in fact, who cares about the Crimea? The US is not the world's policeman.

So, here's the question: is Obama an isolationist?

I think, he is.

But the tricky part is not the Crimea itself. Did you follow the link I supplied? They're talking about game which's not so trivial. In order to get Crimea, Russia's going to make Turkey forgetting about this peninsula in the Black Sea. How? By sponsoring the Kurds. Now, think what would war (or liberation?) in areas with Kurdish population would bring to the rest of the world? We're talking about Turkey, Iraq and Iran. US is going to withdraw from Iraq, correct? Then what would happen to it? What would happen to the oil price if the war was nearby of the oil production regions? I'd agree with author, that it would pump the oil prices up. Who would benefit of that? Russia, with it's export oriented oil industry.

It's not just about Crimea. You're quite right, who cares about Crimea. But do you care about the Middle East region?

Edited November 10, 2008 by MMT

[M.Dancer]

I couldn't find information about ethnic cleansing of Germans in Crimea. It says, that in 1939 there were 60000 of them. I think that like Tatars they were moved to the other parts of USSR but they haven't been killed if you mean it.

I take it then that you do not know what the definition of ethnic cleansing is.

[M.Dancer]

I'll check. so what about japanese, eh?

I don't believe the Japanese were ever in Crimea.

[Adhesion]

I don't believe the Japanese were ever in Crimea.

The question was not about Japanese in Crimea.

FYI, I know abot Catherine, and her policy to settle Germans in Crimea and other regions of Russian Empire. BTW, we can discuss history of Europe if you wish.

But the topic is about possible war in Crimea, so may be you will follow it?)

[Adhesion]

I take it then that you do not know what the definition of ethnic cleansing is.

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: ethnic cleansing

The creation of an ethnically homogenous geographic area through the elimination of unwanted ethnic groups by deportation, forcible displacement, or genocide. Ethnic cleansing also has involved attempts to remove physical vestiges of the targeted group in the territory through the destruction and desecration of monuments, cemeteries, and houses of worship. Although some critics of the term have claimed that ethnic cleansing is simply a form of genocide, defenders of the usage have noted that, whereas the murder of an ethnic, racial, or religious group is the primary intention of a genocidal policy, the chief goal of ethnic cleansing is the establishment of homogenous lands, which may be achieved by any of a number of methods including genocide. The term was widely employed in the 1990s to describe the brutal treatment of Bosniacs (Bosnian Muslims), ethnic Serbs in the Krajina region of Croatia, and ethnic Albanians in the Serbian province of Kosovo during the conflicts that erupted in the wake of the disintegration of Yugoslavia.

partially it was, but as Japanese they were allowed to come back in 90's.

[M.Dancer]

But the topic is about possible war in Crimea, so may be you will follow it?)

And that's why you are bringing up the Japanese?

[M.Dancer]

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: ethnic cleansing

The creation of an ethnically homogenous geographic area through the elimination of unwanted ethnic groups by deportation, forcible displacement, or genocide.

partially it was, but as Japanese they were allowed to come back in 90's.

Exactly

[Adhesion]

And that's why you are bringing up the Japanese?

No, I just show double standarts for the same events.

[M.Dancer]

No, I just show double standarts for the same events.

What double standard? The soviets forcefully removed various ethnic groups 1000s of miles from where they were born and didn't let them come back while the Japanese still are where they have been...

[Adhesion]

What double standard? The soviets forcefully removed various ethnic groups 1000s of miles from where they were born and didn't let them come back while the Japanese still are where they have been...

Chechens and Ingushs were displaced in 1944 and were allowed to return in 1957. Tatars were allowed to do the same in 1989.

And all of these groups were massively collaborating with Nazi.

[Adhesion]

Not quite. The Japanese were removed from coastal areas of North America (Canada to) out of a paranoia founded in racism. They were not expelled from the country and many returned to coastal communities after the war. Their treatment was not something to be proud of but neither was it ethnic cleansing as we have come to know it.

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: ethnic cleansing

the creation of an ethnically homogenous geographic area through the elimination of unwanted ethnic groups by deportation, forcible displacement, or genocide.

So it was.