Isn't it time to slow down immigration?

[Mr.Canada]

If we are headed for economic turmoil as the opposition parties are claiming, isn't it time to slow down immigration.

After all if Canadians are out of work what sense does it make to keep taking in new Canadians?

Shouldn't we be finding hard working Canadians jobs after the collapse of the manufacturing sector?

It seems strange to me that immigration is to remain high when all opposition parties are claiming we are heading to a recession.

If we go into a recession wouldn't the new Canadians needlessly further strain our social assistance system?

Obviously I am not speaking of those who come here bringing money to start businesses etc. I am speaking of the ones who go directly onto the public dole and remain there.

The LPC and the NDP claim that we have lost 400,000 manufacturing jobs since the CPC came to power. Is it prudent to allow over 400,000 immigrants into the country in the same time span if we are on the verge of recession?

Seems irresponsible to me.

[Oleg Bach]

We have enough immigrants - the mix is just right. To continue to displace the children of the people who built the infrastructure and established our institutions is unjust. The idea that more human beings will bring prosperty is not a reality - Our original culture was based in Christian thought - This old mindset whether you believe in it or not created wealth and stablity - The new arrivals are not going to love their neighbour as themselves and will not assist in the continued building of a great nation - They are coming in droves not to give but to take - It is human nature - Let us assimulate the immigrants that we have and not overwhelm our system.

[Mad_Michael]

If we are headed for economic turmoil as the opposition parties are claiming, isn't it time to slow down immigration.

After all if Canadians are out of work what sense does it make to keep taking in new Canadians?

Shouldn't we be finding hard working Canadians jobs after the collapse of the manufacturing sector?

It seems strange to me that immigration is to remain high when all opposition parties are claiming we are heading to a recession.

If we go into a recession wouldn't the new Canadians needlessly further strain our social assistance system?

Obviously I am not speaking of those who come here bringing money to start businesses etc. I am speaking of the ones who go directly onto the public dole and remain there.

The LPC and the NDP claim that we have lost 400,000 manufacturing jobs since the CPC came to power. Is it prudent to allow over 400,000 immigrants into the country in the same time span if we are on the verge of recession?

Seems irresponsible to me.

Closing the door to immigration in Canada is probably the height of government irresponsibility - especially at at time of economic downturn.

Historically speaking, immigration contributes approximately 1% to Canada's GDP each year (and this is accumulative). When growth is low, tossing out this free "1%" growth is madness.

As a general rule, xenophobia and racism are not valid public policy options.

[Argus]

Closing the door to immigration in Canada is probably the height of government irresponsibility - especially at at time of economic downturn.

Historically speaking, immigration contributes approximately 1% to Canada's GDP each year (and this is accumulative). When growth is low, tossing out this free "1%" growth is madness.

As a general rule, xenophobia and racism are not valid public policy options.

Nor is stupidity.

Immigration contributes to GDP. DOOh!. Yes, immigration means we produce more goods. But that's an irrelevant figure. Growth for the sake of growth is pointless and does not help Canadians. Stats Canada figures show that immigrants coming to Canada over the last ten to fifteen years are doing much worse than immigrants who came here in prior decades. They are more likely to be living in poverty, to be unemployed, to be on welfare. Bringing in masses of immigrants during an economic downturn is idiocy. Most of them simply wind up on the unemployment lines or scrambling desperately for some low-wage job to support themselves and their families.

[Oleg Bach]

So-called growth is not good for the common person - "Growth" is only good for investors...and investors historically want something for nothing...Canada could adopt an isolationist policy and survive quiet nicely - Our population is about right - our resourses are in tact and we have a good reputation internationally for now...If we need something from other nations we have lots to trade with. Filling up every last bit of green space with immigrants and suburban sprawl may only benefit a small segiment of the population and harm the bulk - That is not fair and not right and will in time turn us into a highly populated third world place with millions of decaying 500 thousand dollar monster homes that are impossible to maintain and heat. NO - you folks have enough wealth - look at what happened to Britain when the anglo elite thought they would get cheap labour from India...Britian turned into a poop hole....more slaves is not the answer buddy!

[Mad_Michael]

So-called growth is not good for the common person - "Growth" is only good for investors...

Get thee to an economics class!

In a capitalist economy, zero growth will cause economic contraction. Economic contractions result in layoffs for the "common person".

...Canada could adopt an isolationist policy and survive quiet nicely...

Oh yes, the 45% of our economy dependent upon exports I'm sure we can do without.

...look at what happened to Britain when the anglo elite thought they would get cheap labour from India...Britian turned into a poop hole....more slaves is not the answer buddy!

I am not your buddy and I'd ask that you not imply that I am.

And the immigrants that come to Canada have (on average) more education and more job skills than 'Canadian-born' citizens. They also draw less welfare, less UI, commit less crimes and serve less jail time than 'Canadian-born' citizens.

If one wants to place limits on citizens in order to help the Canadian economy, perhaps we ought to encourage some of our deadbeat uneducated 'Canadian-born' citizens to emmigrate? That would boost the Canadian economy.

[Oleg Bach]

Get thee to an economics class!

In a capitalist economy, zero growth will cause economic contraction. Economic contractions result in layoffs for the "common person".

Oh yes, the 45% of our economy dependent upon exports I'm sure we can do without.

I am not your buddy and I'd ask that you not imply that I am.

And the immigrants that come to Canada have (on average) more education and more job skills than 'Canadian-born' citizens. They also draw less welfare, less UI, commit less crimes and serve less jail time than 'Canadian-born' citizens.

If one wants to place limits on citizens in order to help the Canadian economy, perhaps we ought to encourage some of our deadbeat uneducated 'Canadian-born' citizens to emmigrate? That would boost the Canadian economy.

That's not very constructive or helpful...maybe you should interview some of the dead beats that refuse to enrich the likes of you - Perhaps our best have been driven out of town and to the bottom of the food chain - I see people on welfare who would make better prime ministers than what you have.

[Mad_Michael]

That's not very constructive or helpful...maybe you should interview some of the dead beats that refuse to enrich the likes of you - Perhaps our best have been driven out of town and to the bottom of the food chain - I see people on welfare who would make better prime ministers than what you have.

I was explaining how immigration assists the Canadian economy - in direct contradiction to your assertion to the contrary.

And then I applied your own assertion to that segment of the Canadian citizenry that actually is a huge drag on public finances and the economy and concluded that we ought to encourage uneducated louts to emmigrate.

You don't like the result? Not my problem. It was your policy suggestion, not mine.

And I don't need your insults. That's petty, tiresome, uncivil and entirely designed to end the discussion. If you can't win the debate, you apparently need to end the discussion. No surprise there. I usually can't be bothered to post at this forum precisely because of this phenomena that is so unbelievably common at this particular forum.

And people brag about Canadians being polite. That's bullshit as any review of this specific forum will attest. I see much more decorum at American political discussion sites (the same about of uneducated ignorance though).

Edited October 13, 2008 by Mad_Michael

[Oleg Bach]

The term lout is counter productive and shows an elitist mentality on your part - Perhaps you need a bail out - where the louts will send you a billion bucks and you can lend them back their own loutish money at an interest. My point comes from a minor resentment I have with liars that call our immigrants a visable minority - When I am the only white guy on the bus - I would deduct that the term minority is a lie - I rest my case - Honourable people do not need to pick on the poor...I believe Ghandi said -"It is a small man who seeks his self worth in the belittlement of others...No person makes themselvese poor intentionally - and as you and I know our establishment enriched themselves though the sale of booze to the natives and original white trashers that did the work and poured the foundations of the bank towers.

[Hcheh]

We have enough immigrants - the mix is just right. To continue to displace the children of the people who built the infrastructure and established our institutions is unjust. The idea that more human beings will bring prosperty is not a reality - Our original culture was based in Christian thought - This old mindset whether you believe in it or not created wealth and stablity - The new arrivals are not going to love their neighbour as themselves and will not assist in the continued building of a great nation - They are coming in droves not to give but to take - It is human nature - Let us assimulate the immigrants that we have and not overwhelm our system.

couldn't have said it better

[whowhere]

I was explaining how immigration assists the Canadian economy - in direct contradiction to your assertion to the contrary.

And then I applied your own assertion to that segment of the Canadian citizenry that actually is a huge drag on public finances and the economy and concluded that we ought to encourage uneducated louts to emmigrate.

You don't like the result? Not my problem. It was your policy suggestion, not mine.

And I don't need your insults. That's petty, tiresome, uncivil and entirely designed to end the discussion. If you can't win the debate, you apparently need to end the discussion. No surprise there. I usually can't be bothered to post at this forum precisely because of this phenomena that is so unbelievably common at this particular forum.

And people brag about Canadians being polite. That's bullshit as any review of this specific forum will attest. I see much more decorum at American political discussion sites (the same about of uneducated ignorance though).

Do explain how immigrants assist the economy?

Source of Cheap labour - YES

Overwhelm roads and utility Infrastructure - Yes

Can't speak English and inflict mental anguish on other Canadians - Yes

Develops Hate mentality towards Canada and other Canadians - Yes

Immigrants drives down living standards and wages, drives up taxes, and is the source of cultural dysfunction and mental illness within Canada.

[TCCK]

I must agree it is time to close the door to people coming from 3rd world countries that come to have all the good of this country but never contribute positively to the country.

They want all the gold and glory of the country but avoid paying the taxes and costs of the nation saying that is the responibilty of those born here.

Well if that is their attitude I say we keep the coutry for THOSE THAT ARE BORN HERE! and turf the rest of them.

You may call me a bigot but as I get older I relize that so many people of colour quickly call us Canadian caucasins bigots and prejudice yet they are 10-20 times more prejudice than we are. They will not talk to thier neighbour because he is of a lower cast, they will not buy from that man because he is from China and therefore will try to charge too much, they will not have that nationality work on thier jobsite becasue they are bad luck, and so on and so on.

I hear it from people of colour all the ime and it sickens me then they call me a racist because I do not want them here or I want them to pay the taxes when they are asking me if I ill sell them something worth over $10,000 and can they pay CASH so as to not pay the taxes????

GET REAL!!! PAY TO LIVE HERE.

ANd if the Liberals get in, we will pay way more to live here!!! Oh no, sorry sir, the employee that made that ice cream cone for you exhaled CARBON DIOXIDE so there is a "Green/ Carbon Tax" on that ice cream cone.

Dion's wording and rules on what will have the carbon tax on it is so open ended and unclear he could add a 10% straight across the board carbon tax on almost anything and then keep upping the tax rate anytime he wants.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Oh isn't that lovely?

Another one of those "Canada for Canadians" threads...

[Mr.Canada]

Oh isn't that lovely?

Another one of those "Canada for Canadians" threads...

What is wrong with that?

Why shouldn't the citizens of Canada come first?

[PoliticalCitizen]

What is wrong with that?

Why shouldn't the citizens of Canada come first?

Who sais they shouldn't?

Most immigrants become citizens in 3 years.

Their interests are to bring over family, relatives and friends.

[Mr.Canada]

Who sais they shouldn't?

Most immigrants become citizens in 3 years.

Their interests are to bring over family, relatives and friends.

And that is fine, just don't expect me to have to pay for them and their care.

They pay nothing into our system and reap all the benefits of it and put further strain on it, which raises my taxes.

Not fair.

[PoliticalCitizen]

And that is fine, just don't expect me to have to pay for them and their care.

They pay nothing into our system and reap all the benefits of it and put further strain on it, which raises my taxes.

Not fair.

Canada has not paid for the immingrants' upbringing (as in health care and education).

Some other country absorbed these costs and then lost the workforce.

How is that fair?

[independent]

I must agree it is time to close the door to people coming from 3rd world countries that come to have all the good of this country but never contribute positively to the country.

They want all the gold and glory of the country but avoid paying the taxes and costs of the nation saying that is the responibilty of those born here.

Well if that is their attitude I say we keep the coutry for THOSE THAT ARE BORN HERE! and turf the rest of them.

You may call me a bigot but as I get older I relize that so many people of colour quickly call us Canadian caucasins bigots and prejudice yet they are 10-20 times more prejudice than we are. They will not talk to thier neighbour because he is of a lower cast, they will not buy from that man because he is from China and therefore will try to charge too much, they will not have that nationality work on thier jobsite becasue they are bad luck, and so on and so on.

I hear it from people of colour all the ime and it sickens me then they call me a racist because I do not want them here or I want them to pay the taxes when they are asking me if I ill sell them something worth over $10,000 and can they pay CASH so as to not pay the taxes????

GET REAL!!! PAY TO LIVE HERE.

ANd if the Liberals get in, we will pay way more to live here!!! Oh no, sorry sir, the employee that made that ice cream cone for you exhaled CARBON DIOXIDE so there is a "Green/ Carbon Tax" on that ice cream cone.

Dion's wording and rules on what will have the carbon tax on it is so open ended and unclear he could add a 10% straight across the board carbon tax on almost anything and then keep upping the tax rate anytime he wants.

You really need to get out more. I work with all kinds of nationalities and we get along just fine. It is big business that are pushing the government to bring in immigrants. Immigrants come in here willing to work for a lot less money or they have the skills that businesses do not want to train there own people for.

[independent]

I must agree it is time to close the door to people coming from 3rd world countries that come to have all the good of this country but never contribute positively to the country.

They want all the gold and glory of the country but avoid paying the taxes and costs of the nation saying that is the responibilty of those born here.

Well if that is their attitude I say we keep the coutry for THOSE THAT ARE BORN HERE! and turf the rest of them.

You may call me a bigot but as I get older I relize that so many people of colour quickly call us Canadian caucasins bigots and prejudice yet they are 10-20 times more prejudice than we are. They will not talk to thier neighbour because he is of a lower cast, they will not buy from that man because he is from China and therefore will try to charge too much, they will not have that nationality work on thier jobsite becasue they are bad luck, and so on and so on.

I hear it from people of colour all the ime and it sickens me then they call me a racist because I do not want them here or I want them to pay the taxes when they are asking me if I ill sell them something worth over $10,000 and can they pay CASH so as to not pay the taxes????

GET REAL!!! PAY TO LIVE HERE.

ANd if the Liberals get in, we will pay way more to live here!!! Oh no, sorry sir, the employee that made that ice cream cone for you exhaled CARBON DIOXIDE so there is a "Green/ Carbon Tax" on that ice cream cone.

Dion's wording and rules on what will have the carbon tax on it is so open ended and unclear he could add a 10% straight across the board carbon tax on almost anything and then keep upping the tax rate anytime he wants.

You really need to get out more. I work with all kinds of nationalities and we get along just fine. It is big business that are pushing the government to bring in immigrants. Immigrants come in here willing to work for a lot less money or they have the skills that businesses do not want to train there own people for.

[Mr.Canada]

Canada has not paid for the immingrants' upbringing (as in health care and education).

Some other country absorbed these costs and then lost the workforce.

How is that fair?

Ok so you're assuming that these sponsorees are of working age, most are not as many are elderly.

People of working age need to further their schooling here as their educations from their birth countries are not up to our standards.

Even people that come here are sending most of their earnings back home and not spending it here at all.

That money is being spent in the birth countries, again weakening Canada.

[guyser]

And that is fine, just don't expect me to have to pay for them and their care.

They pay nothing into our system and reap all the benefits of it and put further strain on it, which raises my taxes.

Not fair.

Must be mikedavid in disquise. The spelling is better , but the thought process still sucks.

We know, we know, they dont pay any taxes, suck all the life out of us and make us poorer.

Yeah, you really need to get out more.

[Argus]

Canada has not paid for the immingrants' upbringing (as in health care and education).

Some other country absorbed these costs and then lost the workforce.

How is that fair?

You are assuming they had health care and an education. Or that if they had, their country paid for any part of it.

[Mr.Canada]

Any and all intelligent conversation is welcome.

I think it is a very valid concern for run of the mill Canadians since it is these Canadians that new comers displace.

I just want to hear the leftist pov more than anything else.

If the economy is headed for such dire straits as the NDP and Liberals would have us believe is it responsible for gov't to keep the doors wide open to new comers, given the fact that they can put the social system under great strain?

I'm wanting to raise issues that don't get much if any play by the talking heads.

[PoliticalCitizen]

You are assuming they had health care and an education. Or that if they had, their country paid for any part of it.

You cannot immigrate to Canada from Somalia - you can only be a refugee.

Most immigrants come from developed countries.

[guyser]

Any and all intelligent conversation is welcome.

That may be true, but you cancel that with....

I think it is a very valid concern for run of the mill Canadians since it is these Canadians that new comers displace.

What, do they move them out of their houses, apts.....take the seats in the restaurant that "Canadians" occupy?