Living Goddess

[Guest American Woman]

This is just so wrong.

Hindu and Buddhist priests chanted sacred hymns and cascaded flowers and grains of rice over a 3-year-old girl who was appointed a living goddess in Nepal on Tuesday.

The new "kumari" or living goddess, was carried from her parents' home to an ancient palatial temple in the heart of the Nepali capital, Katmandu, where she will live until she reaches puberty and loses her divine status.

Having passed all the tests, the child will stay in almost complete isolation at the temple, and will be allowed to return to her family only at the onset of menstruation when a new goddess will be named to replace her. link

A beautiful little girl's life is basically ruined. This is a practice of Buddhism and Hinduism that I was not aware of, and quite frankly, it's terrible. It's child abuse, and if, as the article says, it violates Nepalese laws on child rights, I don't see why nothing is done about it.

[moderateamericain]

This is just so wrong.

Hindu and Buddhist priests chanted sacred hymns and cascaded flowers and grains of rice over a 3-year-old girl who was appointed a living goddess in Nepal on Tuesday.

The new "kumari" or living goddess, was carried from her parents' home to an ancient palatial temple in the heart of the Nepali capital, Katmandu, where she will live until she reaches puberty and loses her divine status.

Having passed all the tests, the child will stay in almost complete isolation at the temple, and will be allowed to return to her family only at the onset of menstruation when a new goddess will be named to replace her. link

A beautiful little girl's life is basically ruined. This is a practice of Buddhism and Hinduism that I was not aware of, and quite frankly, it's terrible. It's child abuse, and if, as the article says, it violates Nepalese laws on child rights, I don't see why nothing is done about it.

Because the Chinese don't give a shit.

[Guest American Woman]

Because the Chinese don't give a shit.

It's happening in Nepal, not China.

[August1991]

A beautiful little girl's life is basically ruined. This is a practice of Buddhism and Hinduism that I was not aware of, and quite frankly, it's terrible. It's child abuse, and if, as the article says, it violates Nepalese laws on child rights, I don't see why nothing is done about it.

There are 6 billion people in the world and some truly bizarre and unjust things happen. This does not strike me as the most egregious of injustices.

AW, if you get upset by such things, I suggest you stop reading the news. You can do nothing about the world's injustices and you'll just feel lousy.

[myata]

This is just so wrong.

It's certainly wrong - to apply our standards to people living in a totally different society. In eventuality, it's this very sentiment that fuels colonization/liberation/democratization agendas a la Bush and such (most recently).

What you seems to fail to grasp is that society itself is a living organism - each evolves according to its own histories, traditions, customs. Like people, societies change, but only in their own time and on their own terms.

[Guest American Woman]

It's certainly wrong - to apply our standards to people living in a totally different society. In eventuality, it's this very sentiment that fuels colonization/liberation/democratization agendas a la Bush and such (most recently).

What you seems to fail to grasp is that society itself is a living organism - each evolves according to its own histories, traditions, customs. Like people, societies change, but only in their own time and on their own terms.

People might change, societies might evolve, but that doesn't make what's happening wrong. Slavery, when it was being practiced, was still wrong. And this is wrong. Anyone who doesn't think taking a three year old girl away from her home, putting her in isolation for the most part, so grown ups can "worship" her, only to cast her aside when she 'comes of age,' to most likely live a life of hardship alone because of the 'folklore' surrounding the "goddess," is wrong. According to the acticle, even according to Nepal laws it's wrong.

I don't fail to grasp anything. But I have to ask, you don't think the practice is wrong? What about female genital mutilation? Do you support societies' right to do that too, thinking it's "wrong" to deem the practice as wrong?-- to want to help eradicate it from the world?

[White Doors]

People might change, societies might evolve, but that doesn't make what's happening wrong. Slavery, when it was being practiced, was still wrong. And this is wrong. Anyone who doesn't think taking a three year old girl away from her home, putting her in isolation for the most part, so grown ups can "worship" her, only to cast her aside when she 'comes of age,' to most likely live a life of hardship alone because of the 'folklore' surrounding the "goddess," is wrong. According to the acticle, even according to Nepal laws it's wrong.

I don't fail to grasp anything. But I have to ask, you don't think the practice is wrong? What about female genital mutilation? Do you support societies' right to do that too, thinking it's "wrong" to deem the practice as wrong?-- to want to help eradicate it from the world?

She is too busy trying to be PC to allow herself the luxury of judging others. She is too busy being 'enlightened'.

[M.Dancer]

She isn't being treated much different than a llama....anyone pity the Dalai Llama?

[JB Globe]

This is just so wrong.

Hindu and Buddhist priests chanted sacred hymns and cascaded flowers and grains of rice over a 3-year-old girl who was appointed a living goddess in Nepal on Tuesday.

The new "kumari" or living goddess, was carried from her parents' home to an ancient palatial temple in the heart of the Nepali capital, Katmandu, where she will live until she reaches puberty and loses her divine status.

Having passed all the tests, the child will stay in almost complete isolation at the temple, and will be allowed to return to her family only at the onset of menstruation when a new goddess will be named to replace her. link

A beautiful little girl's life is basically ruined. This is a practice of Buddhism and Hinduism that I was not aware of, and quite frankly, it's terrible. It's child abuse, and if, as the article says, it violates Nepalese laws on child rights, I don't see why nothing is done about it.

Please keep in mind that this is ONE incident, and that there are about 1.5 billion adherents of Buddhism & Hinduism.

I don't want anyone thinking this is any more representative of either religion as polygamy cults in Utah are representative of Christianity.

[Guest American Woman]

Please keep in mind that this is ONE incident, and that there are about 1.5 billion adherents of Buddhism & Hinduism.

I don't want anyone thinking this is any more representative of either religion as polygamy cults in Utah are representative of Christianity.

It's representative of their religion in Nepal. I think that was made clear by the mention of Nepal, more than once. As I said, since it's against the law, I have to wonder why nothing is done about it. Also, it's wrong, so I have to wonder why so many seem to be dismissing it/downplaying it. I guess it's just the life of one little girl, so no big deal.

Not only does Nepal have many gods, goddess, deities, Bodhisattvas (near Buddhas), avatars and manifestations, which are worshipped and revered as statues, images, paintings and symbols, but it also has a real living goddess. The Kumari Devi is a young girl who lives in the building known as the Kumari Ghar, right beside Kathmandu's Durbar Square.

From time immemorial the practice of worshipping an ordinary pre-pubescent girl as a source of supreme power has been an integral part of both Hinduism and Buddhism, a tradition which continues even to this day virtually in every household. They call this girl Kumari Devi and worship her on all the religious occasions. That's from VisitNepal.com. link

Nice to know that people are apparently ok with this though. I really have to wonder about people, Political Correctness, 'tolerance,' etc. sometimes.

As a side note, since the polygamy cults in Utah are Mormons, I doubt anyone would think they are representative of Christianity.

[WIP]

There are 6 billion people in the world and some truly bizarre and unjust things happen. This does not strike me as the most egregious of injustices.

What a stupid, assinine comment! Does it have to be the "most egregious" injustice before you will consider abducting three year olds and locking them in a dank, stone temple to be a bad thing?

Interesting, that not only does this practise violate international child welfare laws, according to the news article, it even violates NEPAL'S OWN CHILD WELFARE LAWS! More proof that you can get away with, and excuse any abomination as long as you wrap it in custom and religious dogma!

AW, if you get upset by such things, I suggest you stop reading the news. You can do nothing about the world's injustices and you'll just feel lousy.

Is it a matter of degrees of separation? Would you care if it was happening in Canada? Does your cavalier attitude about bad news in the Third World include genocides, the African AIDS crisis and other disease epidemics, or the massive loss of life from natural disasters?

[WIP]

Please keep in mind that this is ONE incident, and that there are about 1.5 billion adherents of Buddhism & Hinduism.

So that makes it okay? How about if we include Hinduism's caste system for study, since this dogma has been deliberately used to provide religious legitimacy to a feudal system. There are a lot of harmful and barbaric practices in Buddhism and Hinduism that go unchallenged in the West because of the unjustified reverence for the Dalai Lama, and because all of the New Age thinkers, who've taken a few meditation classes and have adopted Eastern doctrines like Karma and Reincarnation refuse to acknowledge the degree of harm done by Buddhist and Hindu dogmas that stifled progress for centuries in the societies where they dominate. The monarchy and the religious authorities in Nepal have been losing their power over the people during the last 20 years -- and that's the first step on the road out of the dark ages.

I don't want anyone thinking this is any more representative of either religion as polygamy cults in Utah are representative of Christianity.

From the brief story, it seems to indicate that this was a major state event sanctioned by the country's president. But even if it was aberant behaviour of some cult, the broader community would still have a moral obligation to try to stop this form of child abuse!

As for Christianity, most Christian fundamentalists are always looking for opportunities to bash Mormons, and the polygamous Mormon cult in Texas had their children removed by the state childeren's aid society, who in turn were condemned for placing the children into fundamentalist Christian homes, likely for the purpose of converting them to another religion. But, the mainstream LDS Church deserves the condemnation they've received for turning a blind eye to the abuses of traditionalist Mormons and allowing them to carry on marrying off 13 year old girls.

[myata]

People might change, societies might evolve, but that doesn't make what's happening wrong. Slavery, when it was being practiced, was still wrong. And this is wrong.

OK, we have to define exactly what we're talking about. Certainly, everybody is entitled to their opinions, and to share them with everybody else. From that perspective indeed you may think it's wrong, probably lots of people in Nepal - completely opposite, and I'm not sure at all about the little girl or her parents.

Where we have to be careful, is then we as a society make a judgment on other people, and even more, decide to interfere on this pretext.

How we make a judgment? Given that we spend so much effort trying to make a correct judment e.g. on a matter of a simple individual crime, how does one go about judging a society, its traditions and customs? Not from our point of view, btw, but from their own, as they aren't going to live in Canada or the US? And what is the right way to interfere, without making things worse? For these reasons, I would be very careful when pronouncing judgements on other people's beliefs, traditions, etc.

[WIP]

Where we have to be careful, is then we as a society make a judgment on other people, and even more, decide to interfere on this pretext.

How we make a judgment? Given that we spend so much effort trying to make a correct judment e.g. on a matter of a simple individual crime, how does one go about judging a society, its traditions and customs? Not from our point of view, btw, but from their own, as they aren't going to live in Canada or the US? And what is the right way to interfere, without making things worse? For these reasons, I would be very careful when pronouncing judgements on other people's beliefs, traditions, etc.

There may be some things which are culturally relative, but murder, rape, child abuse, theft, and a whole host of other values should not be excused under the guise of cultural identity or religious custom! Whether or not we can take action in something happening half way around the world is irrelevant; the question is are we just going to excuse it or ignore it, or do we let the Nepalese know that abducting three year olds and shutting them away during their childhood is objectionable!

[myata]

Yeah, but how do you know that it's murder, etc that's taking place? When we spend two, three month and longer, sometimes much longer (e.g Pickton case), to establish the fact of each individual crime, should we make a wholesale judgement on a whole society with less effort? Sometimes without even understanding it?

Next question is of course, how to act, if act we must.

Not meaning to say that decision, or act is impossible, rather trying to understand in what direction it could be.

[August1991]

What a stupid, assinine comment! Does it have to be the "most egregious" injustice before you will consider abducting three year olds and locking them in a dank, stone temple to be a bad thing?

Interesting, that not only does this practise violate international child welfare laws, according to the news article, it even violates NEPAL'S OWN CHILD WELFARE LAWS! More proof that you can get away with, and excuse any abomination as long as you wrap it in custom and religious dogma!

Well that's it then. Let's call in the F-18s and bomb these awful Buddhists in Nepal. Or at least, let's call in the Marines and arrest them. Somebody has to do something!

It's certainly wrong - to apply our standards to people living in a totally different society. In eventuality, it's this very sentiment that fuels colonization/liberation/democratization agendas a la Bush and such (most recently).

True. If somebody does something, then they get blamed too.

----

I am always amused when I see Lefties confused by their own morality and ethics. This reminds me of how the Left had to choose between the oppressed Muslims and those bigoted, racist Danish cartoons.

Modern political correctness will not last long. It lacks the coherence of the Roman Catholic church.

Is it a matter of degrees of separation? Would you care if it was happening in Canada? Does your cavalier attitude about bad news in the Third World include genocides, the African AIDS crisis and other disease epidemics, or the massive loss of life from natural disasters?

As an ethical guide, an injustice closer to home at least has the merit that I probably know more about it and I may be able to do something about it.

But frankly, if I were US president, I don't know if these would be the injustices that I'd be primarily concerned about either.

Remember something WIP. The perfect is the enemy of the good. If you try to correct every injustice, you'll likely correct no injustice at all and more likely, you'll create even greater injustices.

[WIP]

Well that's it then. Let's call in the F-18s and bomb these awful Buddhists in Nepal. Or at least, let's call in the Marines and arrest them. Somebody has to do something!

Yeah! Try to mock everyone who criticizes this mindless adherence to rituals and superstition! The original post didn't say anything about taking any kind of action, but just found it objectionable -- and you responded with:"There are 6 billion people in the world and some truly bizarre and unjust things happen. This does not strike me as the most egregious of injustices." -- which roughly translates into English as who gives a shit!

Modern political correctness will not last long. It lacks the coherence of the Roman Catholic church.

What coherence? If you think the Catholic Church has been consistent over the years in its teachings, you might want to check the timeline of their shifting rules allowing and forbidding abortion, and waffling over when ensoulment occurred.

As an ethical guide, an injustice closer to home at least has the merit that I probably know more about it and I may be able to do something about it.

No one's talking about trying to make the Nepalese government rescue the girl from that temple; it was a question of whether such practices should be excused or ignored because it's happening in a non-white third world country, and it's sanctioned by religious dogma.

Remember something WIP. The perfect is the enemy of the good. If you try to correct every injustice, you'll likely correct no injustice at all and more likely, you'll create even greater injustices.

You can't correct an injustice if you don't even acknowledge that an injustice has taken place to begin with!

[myata]

No one's talking about trying to make the Nepalese government rescue the girl from that temple; it was a question of whether such practices should be excused or ignored because it's happening in a non-white third world country, and it's sanctioned by religious dogma.

One more time, "excused and ignored", by who? And who will decide what constitutes religious, political, etc dogma?

Understand, as between two people there may not be one who's immediately and obviously right in everything. And even if they were, it's no given that they'll be obeyed without question by all others for that reason. So what would be the answer - good by force feeding?

The most certain way to make change happen, is by the people who are convinced that they need the change themselves. Of course, it hinges on one great presumption - i.e that everybody is entitled to make decisions about themselves, even if they may appear wrong (to somebody else).

[Guest American Woman]

Thanks, WIP, for your posts-- for making the points I would have liked to make if I hadn't been so disheartened by the type of comments this thread has generated. My heart goes out to the little girl. Be it just one life or a thousand, it's all the same to the one involved, and what a loss for this little girl.

[msj]

Thanks, WIP, for your posts-- for making the points I would have liked to make if I hadn't been so disheartened by the type of comments this thread has generated. My heart goes out to the little girl. Be it just one life or a thousand, it's all the same to the one involved, and what a loss for this little girl.

Well said AW.

I'm constantly amazed at the sheer crudeness of people.

People, these are forums for which to discuss things.

No one is demanding we call out the air force.

Such hyperbole looks foolish rather than witty; although, considering the source(s) I'm not really surprised.

Edited October 9, 2008 by msj

[Sir Bandelot]

Thanks, WIP, for your posts-- for making the points I would have liked to make if I hadn't been so disheartened by the type of comments this thread has generated. My heart goes out to the little girl. Be it just one life or a thousand, it's all the same to the one involved, and what a loss for this little girl.

I agree in principle with your attitude. To me its when something is done against someones will, thats a trangression.

However we don't know all the facts about this, so either we need to learn more or reserve judgement until we do. I imagine any child no matter who will be upset and miss their mother. So that is a sad thing. But in her country it could be considered to be a great honour. The alternative in some of these places could easily be a life of complete poverty and utter misery. I don't know if this is this case or not. but she will be well taken care of, very likely. The story indicates that she will be returned to her family, probably in about ten years. Its fair to say, that there are far worse situations for many children in the world. Most of the world is not like the one that we know, most of the world lives in constant poverty and disease. In a sense this could be like someone winning the lottery, although the girl would probably not understand that. This is speculation on my part but shows that its important to know more before we condemn certain things we do not understand.

Even our own people, our own leaders are guilty of things like this.. I recall a large number of children, hundreds of them recently taken from their families by force, put into detention centres alongside with criminal juvenile delinquents, then caught up in legal beaurocracy before they could be released back to their parents. So we are also not so pure.

Not saying that it excuses other injustices, just trying to point out and counter any xenophobia that might be bringing these reactions on.

[WIP]

One more time, "excused and ignored", by who?

All sorts of people from the looks of things so far! The story is ignored by people who don't care what happens so far away, and by people who feel non-white Third World countries have lots of suffering and death anyway, so locking a three year old girl in temple room at night surrounded by the heads of ritually slaughtered goats and buffaloes is no big deal for these people!

And a lot of the people who are excusing it are New Age thinkers who feel a close kinship with the East, since their spiritualistic beliefs are derived from Hinduism and Buddhism, and they don't want to acknowledge any bad things that come out of these traditions.

And who will decide what constitutes religious, political, etc dogma?

The very people who proclaim that they are doing it to adhere to religious dogma: She will be worshipped by Hindus and Buddhists as an incarnation of the powerful Hindu deity Taleju.

Understand, as between two people there may not be one who's immediately and obviously right in everything.

I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like you are making an argument for moral relativism, which I do not accept -- local customs and living conditions can affect what a society considers to be right or wrong, but should we accept that a traditional, time-honoured way of life, such as slavery, is okay?

And even if they were, it's no given that they'll be obeyed without question by all others for that reason. So what would be the answer - good by force feeding?

The most certain way to make change happen, is by the people who are convinced that they need the change themselves. Of course, it hinges on one great presumption - i.e that everybody is entitled to make decisions about themselves, even if they may appear wrong (to somebody else).

Maybe they will change on their own. As societies modernize, they have to break some of the shackles of burdensome religious practices that require long hours of devotion and large portions of their income. If the power that these gods hold over the people starts to weaken, maybe they will decide that calling a three year old a goddess and locking her away in a temple is so ridiculous that it doesn't pass the smell test anymore.

On the other hand, if their awareness of outside opinion makes them realize that such a practice makes them the subject of ridicule, it would help to speed up change. In India, the Caste System didn't start to weaken until low caste Hindus started converting to other religions -- mainly Islam and Christianity.

[WIP]

Thanks, WIP, for your posts-- for making the points I would have liked to make if I hadn't been so disheartened by the type of comments this thread has generated. My heart goes out to the little girl. Be it just one life or a thousand, it's all the same to the one involved, and what a loss for this little girl.

Glad if was of some help! Maybe all the video games are making people a little jaded these days.

[OddSox]

How gullible are you people? The Kumari does not "live a life in isolation" and does not "spend a night alone in a room among the heads of ritually slaughtered goats". Do you believe just anything you read on the interweb?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumari#Life_of_the_Royal_Kumari

They have servants, they have playmates, they are allowed to go to school and they receive a lifetime pension of "around four times the average income".

http://www.vedicbooks.net/from-goddess-to-...ari-p-1539.html

"Reading this book is like traveling into the realms of very loving, genuine and thrilling experience of a living goddess. This book is a bridge that links the world of innocence with the world of experience. It also shows a unique and rare combination of innocence and power as reflected through the narratives of Rashmila Shakya as told to Scott Berry."

[myata]

All sorts of people from the looks of things so far! The story is ignored by people who don't care what happens so far away, and by people who feel non-white Third World countries have lots of suffering and death anyway, so locking a three year old girl in temple room at night surrounded by the heads of ritually slaughtered goats and buffaloes is no big deal for these people!

Are you sure you know enough about these people and their beliefs to pronounce a judgement on them, already? It certainly didn't take you long..

Good comments though, I'll find time to answer in detail, for now only want to note that it's always easier to see mistakes, errors, cruelty, etc in others. Why so, though? Shouldn't it be the other way around? It's ourselves, our problems, history, abilities and strengths that we should be able to know best. I.e be most successful, in finding, and solving, our own problems. And we still have a lot. And if we got even as far as half way of solving them, I'm sure many many people would come, out of their own free will, to learn from us, and make their own societies better. Wouldn't that be the best way to address the injustices in the world? Not excluding assistance of course - where it's freely given, and, importantly, received.