American-style school shooting in Finland

[kengs333]

A very tragic situation, and another example of how American "culture" is having a negative effect on the rest of the world:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/09/23/f...h-shooting.html

[M.Dancer]

A very tragic situation, and another example of how American "culture" is having a negative effect on the rest of the world:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/09/23/f...h-shooting.html

Nothing about it is "American culture". It is purely Finnish.

[guyser]

another example of how American "culture"

Dumb ass thing to say.

Why not ....

Finnish culture (they had a school shooting earlier this year)

Scottish culture-1996 school shooting

Canadian culture-Taber Alta.among others and noteable for being one of the first.

German culture-2000-shooter still in coma

Argentinian culture-2006 school shooting

[kengs333]

Dumb ass thing to say.

Why not ....

Finnish culture (they had a school shooting earlier this year)

Scottish culture-1996 school shooting

Canadian culture-Taber Alta.among others and noteable for being one of the first.

German culture-2000-shooter still in coma

Argentinian culture-2006 school shooting

Yeah, but the notions for this kind of gun violence comes from Hollywood movies and American school-shooting like Columbine. It's not much different than Muslims using suicide bombings as their choice of tactic: it becomes culturally ingrained. And there is no denying that much of the western world takes its cues from the USA, unfortunately.

[M.Dancer]

Yeah, but the notions for this kind of gun violence comes from Hollywood movies and American school-shooting like Columbine. It's not much different than Muslims using suicide bombings as their choice of tactic: it becomes culturally ingrained. And there is no denying that much of the western world takes its cues from the USA, unfortunately.

Finland has an indiginous gun culture...hunting is very popular. They alos have a high rate of depression.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah, but the notions for this kind of gun violence comes from Hollywood movies and American school-shooting like Columbine. It's not much different than Muslims using suicide bombings as their choice of tactic: it becomes culturally ingrained. And there is no denying that much of the western world takes its cues from the USA, unfortunately.

So does that mean that stabbings on buses comes from "Canadian" culture?

[August1991]

Yeah, but the notions for this kind of gun violence comes from Hollywood movies and American school-shooting like Columbine. It's not much different than Muslims using suicide bombings as their choice of tactic: it becomes culturally ingrained. And there is no denying that much of the western world takes its cues from the USA, unfortunately.

If the past few centuries are a guideline, Europeans are far more violent than North or South Americans. Europeans have been involved in numerous, horrific wars in which hundreds of thousands or millions were killed. Even as recently as a decade ago, Europeans were killing each other in Yugoslavia.

By comparison, North America has only known one bloody war: the US Civil War.

Anyone who claims Europeans are more civilized or more peaceful than Americans simply doesn't know history. European culture is arguably the most violent on the planet.

[guyser]

So does that mean that stabbings on buses comes from "Canadian" culture?

touche

[kengs333]

Finland has an indiginous gun culture...hunting is very popular. They alos have a high rate of depression.

And shootings are very uncommon, which means that these kinds of things are inspired from outside of the culture. Both in this case and the one a year ago, Columbine was such an inspiration.

[guyser]

Yeah, but the notions for this kind of gun violence comes from Hollywood movies and American school-shooting like Columbine.

What do you mean "yeah but" ? Either it was a dumb ass thing to say or it wasnt.

What did michael slobodian watch back in 1975? He was CDA's first, occured in Brampton.

What about "I dont like Mondays" , the girl who was bored and thought it would be fun to shoot people?

What about the first school shooting on record in 1966?

All pre-date Columbine.

Not to mention the minor fact that only one school killing has been deemed a copycat killing. Want to guess where that was? Taber Alta, something like 7 or 8 days after Columbine.

[kengs333]

So does that mean that stabbings on buses comes from "Canadian" culture?

If you are going to equate a few isolated stabbings with a consistant pattern of school-shootings then you're more baked than I previously thought. Whatever the case, Canadian culture has become dominated by American culture as well, so it wouldn't be a surprise if Rambo somehow factors into those incidents.

[kengs333]

What do you mean "yeah but" ? Either it was a dumb ass thing to say or it wasnt.

What did michael slobodian watch back in 1975? He was CDA's first, occured in Brampton.

What about "I dont like Mondays" , the girl who was bored and thought it would be fun to shoot people?

What about the first school shooting on record in 1966?

All pre-date Columbine.

Not to mention the minor fact that only one school killing has been deemed a copycat killing. Want to guess where that was? Taber Alta, something like 7 or 8 days after Columbine.

I never said that these were "copycat killing" but whatever the case, such an incident does not have to occur within several days for it to be inspired by or modelled on the Columbine shooting. The shooter apparently was interested in Columbine, hence there is a direct influence to it and American culture in general.

[M.Dancer]

And shootings are very uncommon, which means that these kinds of things are inspired from outside of the culture. Both in this case and the one a year ago, Columbine was such an inspiration.

They are uncommon everywhere abd that doesn't follow that they have to be inspired from elsewhere...if anything thing it might be inspired by last years Finland shooting.

[guyser]

if anything thing it might be inspired by last years Finland shooting.

This years.

((unless you mean school year)

[Guest American Woman]

I never said that these were "copycat killing" but whatever the case, such an incident does not have to occur within several days for it to be inspired by or modelled on the Columbine shooting. The shooter apparently was interested in Columbine, hence there is a direct influence to it and American culture in general.

It most definitely was not "modeled" after the Columbine killings since the Columbine killings didn't involve explosives and setting fires so the the bodies were burned beyond recognition.

Furthermore, the shooter was interested in a lot more than Columbine.

He listed his favourite heavy metal groups, such as German band Rammstein and US group Metallica, as well as German electronic band Wumpscut, whose name he used in his YouTube pseudonym, Wumpscut86.

Wumpscut is known for its violent lyrics, with song titles such Black Death, Bleed in Silence, and Hate is Mine. link

Sounds as if German culture might be to blame, eh? But he did leave a note saying he hated the human race, so maybe the human race is to blame. Because heaven forbid we put the blame on the shooter.

The school's headmaster, Tapio Varmola said he did not know what had spurred the deadly shooting spree.

Perhaps you should inform him that it's America's fault.

Edited September 23, 2008 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

If you are going to equate a few isolated stabbings with a consistant pattern of school-shootings then you're more baked than I previously thought. Whatever the case, Canadian culture has become dominated by American culture as well, so it wouldn't be a surprise if Rambo somehow factors into those incidents.

I guess you're right.....Americans wipe their asses with toilet paper and before you know it, Canadians are doing it too!

[kengs333]

They are uncommon everywhere abd that doesn't follow that they have to be inspired from elsewhere...if anything thing it might be inspired by last years Finland shooting.

I wouldn't say that shootings are uncommon in the US. Most inner cities are essentially war zones.

Apparently the guy was interested in Columbine, as was the other Finnish shooter.

[kengs333]

It most definitely was not "modeled" after the Columbine killings since the Columbine killings didn't involve explosives and setting fires so the the bodies were burned beyond recognition.

Uh, yeah, there were explosives at Columbine--they didn't work properly. They wanted to kill 500 students, remember? (I'm guessing not)

Furthermore, the shooter was interested in a lot more than Columbine.

So what. Columbine was likely a key motivation.

He listed his favourite heavy metal groups, such as German band Rammstein and US group Metallica, as well as German electronic band Wumpscut, whose name he used in his YouTube pseudonym, Wumpscut86.

Heavy metal music being popularized where? The USA.

Wumpscut is known for its violent lyrics, with song titles such Black Death, Bleed in Silence, and Hate is Mine. link

In other words they were inspired by American culture.

Sounds as if German culture might be to blame, eh? But he did leave a note saying he hated the human race, so maybe the human race is to blame. Because heaven forbid we put the blame on the shooter.

No, because this aspect of German culture is influenced by American culture.

Perhaps you should inform him that it's America's fault.

He's probably already figured that out.

Don't take it so personally; you're as much a victim of American culture as everyone else.

[August1991]

No, because this aspect of German culture is influenced by American culture.

I frankly don't know what to think of someone who claims that German culture is violent because of influences from American culture.

Do you have the memory of a gnat?

Kengs, people who saw the horrific violence of Poland between 1939 and 1945 should, according to you, be very violent people? No? Europeans in general witnessed awful atrocities within living memory.

I suggest you rethink all of your ideas about violence. You seem to draw most of your theories about human behaviour from the Hollywood movies that you deride.

[kengs333]

I frankly don't know what to think of someone who claims that German culture is violent because of influences from American culture.

Do you have the memory of a gnat?

Actually, I'm thinking that German society was typically non-violent when it came to crime because of its rather authoritarian culture. You can't really say that what occurred during a war is typical of how people conducted themselves during times of peace. And to the best of my knowledge, German literature and film was never overly obsessed with gun usage and violence. The only real time that public violence was an issue in modern German history was in the immediate post-WWI era when groups like Stahlhelm were engaged in street-fighting against communist agitators, and in the years leading up to WWII (in isolated instances). Post-war Germany has been a very peaceful society. I believe that in 2005 there were about 800 murders in Germany, which has a population of about three times that of Canada. I lived in Germany for a year, and I always felt safe and if gun violence was an issue I would have heard about it because the Germans are very conscious about social order given what happened in the past.

Please refrain from ad hom comments.

[moderateamericain]

I wouldn't say that shootings are uncommon in the US. Most inner cities are essentially war zones.

Apparently the guy was interested in Columbine, as was the other Finnish shooter.

Pure fallacy on your part. I live in the most violent city in America. Detroit Michigan. I live and work within the city Limits. I work with 98 percent black americans from the east side of the city and I can tell you right now its not a war zone. I've dropped employees off at there homes if they have missed the bus. You have not been to an inner city in america before have you?

[kengs333]

Pure fallacy on your part. I live in the most violent city in America. Detroit Michigan. I live and work within the city Limits. I work with 98 percent black americans from the east side of the city and I can tell you right now its not a war zone. I've dropped employees off at there homes if they have missed the bus. You have not been to an inner city in america before have you?

Thank God never have been, and hopefully never will. Sorry, when a city like Memphis has 9,000 active gang members, that equals war zone in my books.

[bush_cheney2004]

Thank God never have been, and hopefully never will. Sorry, when a city like Memphis has 9,000 active gang members, that equals war zone in my books.

I guess that means you will be avoiding Toronto too...and don't go anywhere near Winipeg, right? Be afraid...be very afraid.

[Oleg Bach]

I guess that means you will be avoiding Toronto too...and don't go anywhere near Winipeg, right? Be afraid...be very afraid.

Europe - secularization and de-masculinaztion of males results in a crazed sort of frustration. THESE events will increase in a society where being a man of principle and honour is rapidly becoming illegal...what the hell do you expect - tear down the temple and replace it with....well ...nothing...at least in the old days we would pledge to be good and Godly at the begining of every school day.....now hopelessness and aimless amorality has taken hold and the social engineering is an utter failure.

[August1991]

Actually, I'm thinking that German society was typically non-violent when it came to crime because of its rather authoritarian culture. You can't really say that what occurred during a war is typical of how people conducted themselves during times of peace. And to the best of my knowledge, German literature and film was never overly obsessed with gun usage and violence. The only real time that public violence was an issue in modern German history was in the immediate post-WWI era when groups like Stahlhelm were engaged in street-fighting against communist agitators, and in the years leading up to WWII (in isolated instances). Post-war Germany has been a very peaceful society. I believe that in 2005 there were about 800 murders in Germany, which has a population of about three times that of Canada. I lived in Germany for a year, and I always felt safe and if gun violence was an issue I would have heard about it because the Germans are very conscious about social order given what happened in the past.

Post war Germany was peaceful?

What would you call the Stasi or the Berlin Wall itself? What Baader-Meinhof?

It seems to me that you have decided only to examine a certain form of violence and ignore any other. On those terms, maybe we should look precisely at the failure of urban cventres because that's where most violent crime (in your terms anyway occurs).

What is it about city-dwellers that makes them so violent?

Keng, you have set up the question in a way that pre-determines the conclusion and that merely reinforces your previously decided opinion. Talk about an echo-chamber.

Actually, I'm thinking that German society was typically non-violent when it came to crime because of its rather authoritarian culture.

WTF?

You appear to engage in grotesque generalities without even being aware that you are doing so.