The Conservatives' Unethical Anti-Drug Strategy

[OddSox]

I can just imagine the outcry if the same rate of taxation on tobacco was not applied to mj, if it was ever made available via the government. I expect even non-smokers would be upset at the double standard.

Hey, I'd have no problem paying $75 for a carton with 200 grams of pot!

[Smallc]

I agree, that's why I have/had no problem with alcohol being prohibited.

Something we really do agree on. I think there's almost nothing more destructive.

[eyeball]

Something we really do agree on. I think there's almost nothing more destructive.

The only thing that's more destructive is the message that legal booze sends. Despite all they say, the state actually does support people using mind altering substances.

Kids, take note.

[TCCK]

WHAT THE HECK!!!

The Conservatives are against drug use, they help a few people to slowly wean themselves fo the drugs they use and you shove that in the COnservatives face!?!?!?!

The Liberals, Green, and NDP all want to LEGALIZE marijuana usage so the Police can get on with more pressing matters and to take the power away from the gangs and earn tax revenue off of marijuana sales.

THAT WILL NOT WORK, THEN THE GANGS WILL INSTEAD OF SELLING POT TO YOUR 12 to 15 year old child they will be only able to sell cocaine, heronion, crack and the nasty drugs to make quick drug money!!!

OH THAT IS SUCH A BETTER PLAN GUYS, go smoke some more weed and come up with some more great ideas.

Oh my what is this country coming to?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Wild Bill]

WHAT THE HECK!!!

The Conservatives are against drug use, they help a few people to slowly wean themselves fo the drugs they use and you shove that in the COnservatives face!?!?!?!

The Liberals, Green, and NDP all want to LEGALIZE marijuana usage so the Police can get on with more pressing matters and to take the power away from the gangs and earn tax revenue off of marijuana sales.

THAT WILL NOT WORK, THEN THE GANGS WILL INSTEAD OF SELLING POT TO YOUR 12 to 15 year old child they will be only able to sell cocaine, heronion, crack and the nasty drugs to make quick drug money!!!

OH THAT IS SUCH A BETTER PLAN GUYS, go smoke some more weed and come up with some more great ideas.

Oh my what is this country coming to?!?!?!?!?!?!

As if they aren't selling the hard drugs already! What gated community do you live in?

I'm finding it hard to understand which side you're on. Your arguments since you showed up slamming Ontario voters as a solid group have been extreme and over the top. Some might say they look like a caricature of "conservative" thought. They do more to make conservative look like a bad voting choice than a good one.

If persuading people to "conservative" views is your true goal then you have very strange tactics. Perhaps there's a simpler explanation.

[DrGreenthumb]

As if they aren't selling the hard drugs already! What gated community do you live in?

I'm finding it hard to understand which side you're on. Your arguments since you showed up slamming Ontario voters as a solid group have been extreme and over the top. Some might say they look like a caricature of "conservative" thought. They do more to make conservative look like a bad voting choice than a good one.

If persuading people to "conservative" views is your true goal then you have very strange tactics. Perhaps there's a simpler explanation.

Posters like him show the true nature of Harper's base, blinded by their ideology and determined to force their moral judgements on the rest of us. It would be funny if Harper wasn't willing to pander to people like that with laws like C-26. I hope TCCK keeps posting because it is very telling of the kind of people that make up Harper's base and what kind of Christian Taliban state they aspire to turn Canada into.

If there were more people like wild bill and old sox helping to form the policies of the Conservatives, and less like TCCK, I wouldn't be so scared of a Conservative government. Unfortunately the party has fallen victim to people like TCCK, blueblood, and M Dancer, and has lost touch with any libertarian principles. Nothing is more important to me than civil liberties, I don't want my country to become some kind or religious/police state. Harper is worse than Ned Flanders, he's more like Adolf Flanders.

[Wild Bill]

Posters like him show the true nature of Harper's base, blinded by their ideology and determined to force their moral judgements on the rest of us. It would be funny if Harper wasn't willing to pander to people like that with laws like C-26. I hope TCCK keeps posting because it is very telling of the kind of people that make up Harper's base and what kind of Christian Taliban state they aspire to turn Canada into.

If there were more people like wild bill and old sox helping to form the policies of the Conservatives, and less like TCCK, I wouldn't be so scared of a Conservative government. Unfortunately the party has fallen victim to people like TCCK, blueblood, and M Dancer, and has lost touch with any libertarian principles. Nothing is more important to me than civil liberties, I don't want my country to become some kind or religious/police state. Harper is worse than Ned Flanders, he's more like Adolf Flanders.

Well, thanks for the compliment! Still, we differ in that I don't believe that TCCK is really what he appears to be. Or that he is representative of all but an extremely small minority of the conservative demographic.

What did it for me was his claim to be a western-based business owner with a branch in Toronto, where he comes out for meetings once in a while and fires folks just for the fun of it!

This is not a typical business manager. It's a cartoon of a business manager. Why on earth would anyone stay in a company run by such management? What's more, business owners tend to be a lot more tolerant of other peoples' views. It's just good salesmanship to be respectful and get along.

My personal opinion is that some folks like to stir the pot and wear another man's suit to set him up as a patsy.

If someone claimed to be a drug dealer and posted bragging msgs about how he wants drugs to stay illegal so he can hook schoolkids just for the fun of it, you'd know he had to be stooging us. I view TCCK's posts as of the same ilk.

[TCCK]

Well, thanks for the compliment! Still, we differ in that I don't believe that TCCK is really what he appears to be. Or that he is representative of all but an extremely small minority of the conservative demographic.

What did it for me was his claim to be a western-based business owner with a branch in Toronto, where he comes out for meetings once in a while and fires folks just for the fun of it!

This is not a typical business manager. It's a cartoon of a business manager. Why on earth would anyone stay in a company run by such management? What's more, business owners tend to be a lot more tolerant of other peoples' views. It's just good salesmanship to be respectful and get along.

My personal opinion is that some folks like to stir the pot and wear another man's suit to set him up as a patsy.

If someone claimed to be a drug dealer and posted bragging msgs about how he wants drugs to stay illegal so he can hook schoolkids just for the fun of it, you'd know he had to be stooging us. I view TCCK's posts as of the same ilk.

You have NO IDEA what you are talking about boys. And "firing folks for the fun of it", you have no idea what I had to put up with, most employers would have sent their butts out the door way sooner. I tend to be a second chance kind of boss and sometimes that bites me in the butt.

I speak and voice my opinions hard on yes very Conservative slanted to let you use your brain and think. To get you to take off your Liberal glasses and use that brain in that head of yours.

I don't just have a branch in Toronto, I have many branch offices outside of the WESTside of Canada, East of Winterpeg. I am respected, trusted and appreciated by most of my employees. I care about them and their families, I put my wallet where my mouth is in this area some choose to abuse it and that I have no tolerance for.

I maybe a tad extreme as far as Conservatives go but that is who I am. It has always worked for me in my personal life and my business. My wife calls me a corporate Redneck at times, yes I bleed Western Canada because this is my home and I love it here.

I will not apologize for who I am, how I run my business or how much I care for people. I want their lives to be better, I have an opinion on how that can be done and I let it be known.

Oh, and you can fire away because after all these years of being this way I have come up against alot of people that don't see eye to eye with me and they can rip me a new one but guess what, I do not hold a grudge, I take their criticisim and see if there are any valid points and then move on from there. It works personally and in business.

Fire away....

[TCCK]

and what kind of Christian Taliban state they aspire to turn Canada into..

Never, I still believe in free speech, and if you read some of my other posts you will see I AM NOT A RELIGIOUS bible thumper. Get your facts straight.

You don't see me calling you a pot smoking welfare hippy (I am sure your not by the way as your thoughts are too intelligent.)

Skip the name calling and post like it is a debate not a Grade 4 fight between 2 girls.

Okay back to you....

[cybercoma]

blinded by their ideology and determined to force their moral judgements on the rest of us.

can't you tell that this description also fits you?

[cybercoma]

WHAT THE HECK!!!

The Conservatives are against drug use, they help a few people to slowly wean themselves fo the drugs they use and you shove that in the COnservatives face!?!?!?!

The Liberals, Green, and NDP all want to LEGALIZE marijuana usage so the Police can get on with more pressing matters and to take the power away from the gangs and earn tax revenue off of marijuana sales.

THAT WILL NOT WORK, THEN THE GANGS WILL INSTEAD OF SELLING POT TO YOUR 12 to 15 year old child they will be only able to sell cocaine, heronion, crack and the nasty drugs to make quick drug money!!!

OH THAT IS SUCH A BETTER PLAN GUYS, go smoke some more weed and come up with some more great ideas.

Oh my what is this country coming to?!?!?!?!?!?!

Legalizing marijuana will take it out of the hands of organized crime, ensure a safer supply for those who want to use it and generate a massive amount of revenue for the government to combat the problems with harder drugs.

Criminals are gutting houses and growing weed in residential neighbourhoods all across Canada. The funds from pot often times are used to purchase firearms and harder drugs. And when territory comes into question, the gang violence turns deadly.

Pot isn't usually considered unsafe, but it's not unheard of for people to smoke a joint without knowing that it had been laced with other drugs. Also, the quality of weed is widely varying, so legalizing it and regulating the production and sale of the product will hopefully keep people from getting sick off bad pot.

By regulating the production and sale of pot, the government can make a mint off the taxation of the product and the licensing for the sale and production. This money could be used to fund the education, prevention, intervention and treatment programs that people need when it comes to harder drugs.

I don't think it makes sense to continue to criminalize marijuana. If the organized crime, safety and revenue generated from its sale aren't enough, consider the relative safety of the product. There's no more harm in smoking pot than there is in drinking. In fact, marijuana in many ways can be considered safer than cigarettes. Often times it is filtered through water in a pipe, which takes a lot of the tar out of the smoke. There are ways of handling it so that you don't even have to smoke the product to get its affects. In many ways, weed can be enjoyed responsibly, but there is such moral indignation to it in society that a rational discussion about its legalization is next to impossible.

[Wild Bill]

You have NO IDEA what you are talking about boys. And "firing folks for the fun of it", you have no idea what I had to put up with, most employers would have sent their butts out the door way sooner. I tend to be a second chance kind of boss and sometimes that bites me in the butt.

I speak and voice my opinions hard on yes very Conservative slanted to let you use your brain and think. To get you to take off your Liberal glasses and use that brain in that head of yours.

I don't just have a branch in Toronto, I have many branch offices outside of the WESTside of Canada, East of Winterpeg. I am respected, trusted and appreciated by most of my employees. I care about them and their families, I put my wallet where my mouth is in this area some choose to abuse it and that I have no tolerance for.

I maybe a tad extreme as far as Conservatives go but that is who I am. It has always worked for me in my personal life and my business. My wife calls me a corporate Redneck at times, yes I bleed Western Canada because this is my home and I love it here.

I will not apologize for who I am, how I run my business or how much I care for people. I want their lives to be better, I have an opinion on how that can be done and I let it be known.

Oh, and you can fire away because after all these years of being this way I have come up against alot of people that don't see eye to eye with me and they can rip me a new one but guess what, I do not hold a grudge, I take their criticisim and see if there are any valid points and then move on from there. It works personally and in business.

Fire away....

Fire away yourself!

I'm from Ontario and you already accused me and every one who lives here to be an empty headed Liberal supporter. I'm still waiting for your reply on that one.

I guess every Westerner must be exactly like YOU! It would be consistent. If you can call me and a few million others Liberals responsible for the past 10-15 years then my argument must be equally valid.

You really couldn't have insulted us more! Makes me wonder why we bothered fighting for the West when it told us "The West wants In!"

Enough! I find your arguments to be so unsupported that I just won't play any more.

Since the election was called we've seen so many new posters using aliases with frankly strange and confusingly partisan arguments that this board is beginning to sound like "babble".

[TCCK]

Fire away yourself!

I'm from Ontario and you already accused me and every one who lives here to be an empty headed Liberal supporter. I'm still waiting for your reply on that one.

I guess every Westerner must be exactly like YOU! It would be consistent. If you can call me and a few million others Liberals responsible for the past 10-15 years then my argument must be equally valid.

You really couldn't have insulted us more! Makes me wonder why we bothered fighting for the West when it told us "The West wants In!"

Enough! I find your arguments to be so unsupported that I just won't play any more.

Since the election was called we've seen so many new posters using aliases with frankly strange and confusingly partisan arguments that this board is beginning to sound like "babble".

Yes I DID accuse you of that, if the glove fits......

In the west here we are not all born and will die a single party just like our parents and grand parents did. If you look at my posts you will see I SUPPORTED CHRETIEN until he stabbed me the back personally. NEVER a Liberal again, I have been lied to one to many times. Remember Trudeau, I voted for him too, I was not always anti-Liberal, just since I saw the truth in who they were and are now.

And yes I am a new person in the forum, I promised after the last el;ection I would not let the next election go by without doing whatever I could to show the truth about the Liberal party and the crap they do and will continue to do until the party gets a complete cleaning of house. Then I will even look again at the party!!!

And as for aliases, I see you go by your real name and post your address, phone number and email address for all to see......so what if I go by a long standing nickname (or initials of it since it is too long), I was 11 years old when I was first called that nickname and it is not an alias to me, or anyone that knows me. If one of my employees logged in here without knowing I was on this forum, they would know in 2 seconds that was me by that name I choose. The same with all my family and close friends. Maybe your Wild Bill is the same, I do not know, but I do not accuse you of being a spy or someone with a secret agenda in the forum because you appeared. Take off the tinfoil beanie and maybe take a break from your Liberal Kool Aid so you have a second to think clearly.

[Wild Bill]

Yes I DID accuse you of that, if the glove fits......

In the west here we are not all born and will die a single party just like our parents and grand parents did. If you look at my posts you will see I SUPPORTED CHRETIEN until he stabbed me the back personally. NEVER a Liberal again, I have been lied to one to many times. Remember Trudeau, I voted for him too, I was not always anti-Liberal, just since I saw the truth in who they were and are now.

And yes I am a new person in the forum, I promised after the last el;ection I would not let the next election go by without doing whatever I could to show the truth about the Liberal party and the crap they do and will continue to do until the party gets a complete cleaning of house. Then I will even look again at the party!!!

And as for aliases, I see you go by your real name and post your address, phone number and email address for all to see......so what if I go by a long standing nickname (or initials of it since it is too long), I was 11 years old when I was first called that nickname and it is not an alias to me, or anyone that knows me. If one of my employees logged in here without knowing I was on this forum, they would know in 2 seconds that was me by that name I choose. The same with all my family and close friends. Maybe your Wild Bill is the same, I do not know, but I do not accuse you of being a spy or someone with a secret agenda in the forum because you appeared. Take off the tinfoil beanie and maybe take a break from your Liberal Kool Aid so you have a second to think clearly.

If you think that the Liberals took ALL the votes in Ontario for decades and that NONE of us voted Tory or Reform then YOU need the tinfoil beanie! That is exactlyl what you said! That is an insult, plain and simple. I did my part. I was even a Riding Director for Reform for a few terms. Views like yours make me wonder if I should have bothered.

The plain fact remains that your approach may well lose more conservative voters than it would gain. You seem to come from the school of scolding rather than persuading.

Harper himself gave a speech years ago where he told Reformers flat out that if they tried to preach social conservatism with the new Party they would LOSE! Stockwell Day proved that point. That point of view only flies in a very small circle. It would have doomed Reform to being a tiny fringe party, like the Christian Heritage Party here in the east. Thank Heavens for Chuck Strahl and the others who had the courage to walk away from him. Day had hammered a stake through everything for which Manning had worked so hard.

Liberals and others are extremely experienced in knocking down conservatives in campaigns. Mistakes in approach can lead to disaster. Look what happened with John Tory's campaign here in Ontario. What inept group of "rocket scientist" advisers did John have running his show? In one fell swoop they not only lost the election, they ran the party's support into the gound.

Now you show up claiming to attack the Liberals but doing it in a loud, brash fashion, with sweeping generalizations and insulting groups of voters en masse.

This is why I question the true motives behind your efforts. If Ontarioans were truly as dumb as you claim to keep voting Liberal then they must also be dumb enough to believe Liberals as they take easy cheap shots to knock your arguments down. They might be corrupt but they're smart enough to pitch for votes with honey while others spout vinegar.

Oh well, as long as YOU are having fun, I suppose. Meanwhile, what's with the bit about using an alias? I've never even mentioned such a thing.

You do understand that we are all specific individuals who post on this board, don't you? That we are not one giant Liberal voter posting under different names for you to rail against?

Edited September 28, 2008 by Wild Bill

[DrGreenthumb]

If you think that the Liberals took ALL the votes in Ontario for decades and that NONE of us voted Tory or Reform then YOU need the tinfoil beanie! That is exactlyl what you said! That is an insult, plain and simple. I did my part. I was even a Riding Director for Reform for a few terms. Views like yours make me wonder if I should have bothered.

The plain fact remains that your approach may well lose more conservative voters than it would gain. You seem to come from the school of scolding rather than persuading.

Harper himself gave a speech years ago where he told Reformers flat out that if they tried to preach social conservatism with the new Party they would LOSE! Stockwell Day proved that point. That point of view only flies in a very small circle. It would have doomed Reform to being a tiny fringe party, like the Christian Heritage Party here in the east. Thank Heavens for Chuck Strahl and the others who had the courage to walk away from him. Day had hammered a stake through everything for which Manning had worked so hard.

Liberals and others are extremely experienced in knocking down conservatives in campaigns. Mistakes in approach can lead to disaster. Look what happened with John Tory's campaign here in Ontario. What inept group of "rocket scientist" advisers did John have running his show? In one fell swoop they not only lost the election, they ran the party's support into the gound.

Now you show up claiming to attack the Liberals but doing it in a loud, brash fashion, with sweeping generalizations and insulting groups of voters en masse.

This is why I question the true motives behind your efforts. If Ontarioans were truly as dumb as you claim to keep voting Liberal then they must also be dumb enough to believe Liberals as they take easy cheap shots to knock your arguments down. They might be corrupt but they're smart enough to pitch for votes with honey while others spout vinegar.

Oh well, as long as YOU are having fun, I suppose. Meanwhile, what's with the bit about using an alias? I've never even mentioned such a thing.

You do understand that we are all specific individuals who post on this board, don't you? That we are not one giant Liberal voter posting under different names for you to rail against?

The problem is WildBill that there are a LOT of conservative supporters out there who think just like this guy. The biggest percentage of them are older and most probably do not post on the internet. I for one hope the younger generation who end up on the recieving end of the mandaTORY jail sentences for pot imposed on us by the OLD, will show OUR true colors and compassion and still take care of our elders when they need it. There may be a lot of anger in us once we have been imprisoned for our harmless lifestyle choice.

Don't forget that mr Stockwell Day is still a prominent member of Harper's conservatives, as are most of the rest of the social conservative rednecks in the party. What the hell makes you think that these buffons will not push their so-con agenda in a majority situation? They have been told that they have to keep their issues on the backburner until they have the power to implement them, in a majority situation these bible-thumpin moralists will INSIST on passing their repressive agenda. It may be that the bills will be tabled as "private members bills" to somewhat shield the tories from being labled for what they really are, but there are enough of these TCCK type candidates in the conservative party to pass any regressive legislation that Stockwell day and his ilk put forward.

A conservative majority would trample all over the rights that various groups have fought long and hard for, and take us back to the stone age.

Even in a minority situation they brought us bill c-26 a bill that would impose a mandaTORY 6 month jail sentence for growing a single pot plant. You really think they will not further impose their religious ideology in a majority situation?

[Wild Bill]

The problem is WildBill that there are a LOT of conservative supporters out there who think just like this guy.

Don't forget that mr Stockwell Day is still a prominent member of Harper's conservatives, as are most of the rest of the social conservative rednecks in the party. What the hell makes you think that these buffons will not push their so-con agenda in a majority situation? They have been told that they have to keep their issues on the backburner until they have the power to implement them, in a majority situation these bible-thumpin moralists will INSIST on passing their repressive agenda. It may be that the bills will be tabled as "private members bills" to somewhat shield the tories from being labled for what they really are, but there are enough of these TCCK type candidates in the conservative party to pass any regressive legislation that Stockwell day and his ilk put forward.

A conservative majority would trample all over the rights that various groups have fought long and hard for, and take us back to the stone age.

Sorry, but you are stretching your conclusions to fit your usual premise. First off, who says that there are a LOT of social conservatives in the party? YOU do! I've been a lot closer to that party than you and I don't see things your way at all. You'll have to do better to get me to swallow that.

As for what makes me believe they won't push a "so-con" agenda, that's easy. Harper and all the others in the party who have at least half a sober brain cell will not allow these types to destroy their party. What you and others seem to be describing is a party of religious nuts who will wear sheep's clothing to get into power, so that they can then ram through fundamentalist doctrine, ensuring that the party will never ever get into power again!

It's an absurd argument. Pure emotionalism and little or no reason. Who ever heard of a politician who didn't want to stay in power?

My friend, if you don't learn some objectivity I predict you will have an impossible task in achieving your goal of more social liberty. Simply demonizing your opponents will only gain you points in your own "church".

I SHARE your goal, yet by your arguments I have seen here I could never vote for you.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Wild Bill