Why is Dion not getting through?

[August1991]

Stéphane Dion is an intelligent man. He's steeped in Canadian politics. His father was a noted professor and advisor to Quebec politicians.

He is tall, attractive and has a commanding presence. He is tenacious and ambitious. He can withstand the slings and arrows. He has a strong message and he's teh leader of a formidable political party.

And yet, he's not succeeding. Perhaps he can change things in the next few weeks. I still think that he should be a formidable politician but if the Liberals lose and Harper gets a majority government, then I think it will be the end of Dion's political career.

What is Dion's problem?

I think Dion is taking too much advice from others and he's trying to be something that he's not. Instead, he should simply be himself and original. The Canadian people are remarkably tolerant of their leaders if they sense that the leader is genuine.

Robert Bourassa struggled with this problem (perhaps all politicians struggle with it) but I think he was more comfortable when he returned after 1985 and simply presented himself as he was.

I fear that Dion has followed the advisors of McGuinty or David Peterson who believe they can remake the politician to achieve political success. Dion is a far more profound man than Peterson or McGuinty. Dion should have remained true to himself instead of trying to change his outward image to suit the recommendations of style experts.

If Dion loses this, I don't think Kennedy will be the next leader. It will be either Rae or Ignatieff and I don't think the Liberals will choose Rae. That means it will be Ignatieff.

I sense that Ignatieff will listen politely to the style advisors and then ignore them. If Ignatieff is not the flake that I once thought he was, he'll be more successful too.

----

Harper made a perspicacious observation of the Liberals. After moving to the market-oriented centre, they have recently lurched to the Left. This is another reason for their apparent weak numbers.

Edited September 14, 2008 by August1991

[jdobbin]

If Dion loses this, I don't think Kennedy will be the next leader. It will be either Rae or Ignatieff and I don't think the Liberals will choose Rae. That means it will be Ignatieff.

I sense that Ignatieff will listen politely to the style advisors and then ignore them. If Ignatieff is not the flake that I once thought he was, he'll be more successful too.

----

Harper made a perspicacious observation of the Liberals. After moving to the market-oriented centre, they have recently lurched to the Left. This is another reason for their apparent weak numbers.

We'll see if any of the former leadership candidates even win again. Kennedy might not. Some others might be gone too with the complete collapse of the Liberals.

[Seven Star]

perhaps it is because he is just plain dull and boring to listen to. He lacks charisma and doesn't come across as much of a "man", but then again, neither do the others, say for Elizabeth May lol

[tango]

perhaps it is because he is just plain dull and boring to listen to. He lacks charisma and doesn't come across as much of a "man", but then again, neither do the others, say for Elizabeth May lol

She's got cahones!

Dion can handle detailed questions about green shift 'out of the blue', and comes across as sincere and knowledgeable. This is not lost on Canadians.

Beats flash-and-trash campaigns, imo.

Can I do a write in vote in the poll?

I vote "Whoever wrote this poll doesn't vote Liberal. big deal"

Not to say I do, because I look for intelligence and sincerity, and that's not frequently found in combination in Canadian politics.

Edited September 14, 2008 by tango

[betsy]

It is mostly because of everything mentioned in the various choices above. And the result is that he is simply not leader material. Of course it doesn't help that he is a Liberal, and the Liberal Party is showing that it is so dis-organized.

The Green Shift only underlined their lack of planning. I see that they'd do anything just so to get back into power....even at the cost of plunging our economy into chaos. And that's really scary.

Edited September 14, 2008 by betsy

[August1991]

Dion can handle detailed questions about green shift 'out of the blue', and comes across as sincere and knowledgeable. This is not lost on Canadians.

Beats flash-and-trash campaigns, imo.

Can I do a write in vote in the poll?

I vote "Whoever wrote this poll doesn't vote Liberal. big deal"

Dion is third in polls asking who would make the best PM. The Liberals are second in the mid-20s.

I don't know. Maybe Dion can turn this around but he seems to lack traction in both English and French Canada. Whatever my political opinions, this observation seems clear.

I suspect that Dion and his advisors are thinking about this now and if they're not, I think that it's fair to say that if things continue, it's sure that within a week or two the Liberal campaign will have to make changes.

Dion's not getting through.

[jdobbin]

I suspect that Dion and his advisors are thinking about this now and if they're not, I think that it's fair to say that if things continue, it's sure that within a week or two the Liberal campaign will have to make changes.

Dion's not getting through.

Nothing will change those numbers aside from another raid on Tory part headquarters. It will make no difference in the campaign at all what Dion does at this point. The party is headed for a defeat that will compare to Turner in 1984 but it is unlikely a recovery will happen under the present party structure.

[capricorn]

Dion is smart and likable but I don't think he has the leadership qualities needed for the PM's job. The other factor is that he is paying the price for past corruption in the Liberal Party. A lot of Canadians think the old guard is still present and a purge is necessary. They're also miffed that the money stolen through Adscam has not been recovered. I think Canadians turfed them for those reasons when they elected Harper in a minority. The fear that Harper would be bad for Canada is dissipating. Add to the mix Dion's poor communications skills and the growing unpopularity of the Green Shift and it spells disaster for the Liberals. It does look to me that the result will be a Conservative majority.

Canadians and for that fact Liberal supporters, want a new and revised Liberal Party. That will take some time.

[jdobbin]

Canadians and for that fact Liberal supporters, want a new and revised Liberal Party. That will take some time.

It seems unlikely that the Liberals will survive in any meaningful way. It will probably disappear with 10 years or be a fringe player as they are in Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

I can't vote in this poll as there is more than one choice I would like to choose.

I can't even get to the point to decide if Dion is intelligent or not - I can't listen to him long enough. I can barely understand the guy - even less than I could understand Chretien.

I don't think he would represent Canada well because we are a predominately English speaking country and this guy can't speak English.

I also don't think he can represent Canada well until he gives up his French citizenship. It might be okay for a regular Joe Citizen to have two nationalities... but the loyalties of the leader should be without question.

Finally he won't get my vote because I don't agree with this green shift crap and I don't think we should be spending any money on any sort of carbon scheme.

This election will be the first one I have ever voted conservative.

[capricorn]

Here is proof that the old Liberal strategists are still operating behind the scenes and that Dion appears to be swallowing their advice whole.

Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion once again raised the spectre of Stephen Harper's "hidden agenda" on Saturday, an accusation Dion has frequently levelled at the prime minister to describe a Tory government he believes is secretive, ideological, and more right wing than Harper lets on.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/st...p-4863925c.html

They haven't even learned that the hidden agenda tack won't work.

[August1991]

I can't vote in this poll as there is more than one choice I would like to choose.

I fixed that in the poll. It's possible to choose more than one option.

[jdobbin]

They haven't even learned that the hidden agenda tack won't work.

The Tories use it now. They keep saying the Liberals have an agenda to raise the GST and cut the child tax credit.

The hidden agenda tactic works about 50% of the time. It has been enough in the past to crush the Tories. It won't work this time.

[Moonbox]

The Tories use it now. They keep saying the Liberals have an agenda to raise the GST and cut the child tax credit.

The hidden agenda tactic works about 50% of the time. It has been enough in the past to crush the Tories. It won't work this time.

I think it's a silly tactic used to influence the lowest common denominator. It's the same crap the republicans are trying to use against Obama.

It would be nice if the politicians can just stick to the issues but unfortunately most Canadians can't be expected to understand 25% of the issues at hand.

[August1991]

The other factor is that he is paying the price for past corruption in the Liberal Party. A lot of Canadians think the old guard is still present and a purge is necessary.

As much as I dislike the word "purge", you may be right.

It seems that the Liberal Party needs a radical change.

It would be nice if the politicians can just stick to the issues but unfortunately most Canadians can't be expected to understand 25% of the issues at hand.

Issues? What is that?

I think "issues" is a codeword for something else. What/

Edited September 15, 2008 by August1991

[Riverwind]

What is Dion's problem?

Dion took the party to the left for what I believe are ideological reasons. This move abandoned a large number of right of center voters who previously voted liberal and many of these voters are turning to the conservatives since they are the only party willing to address the concerns of that voting block. Unfortunately (for the Liberals), the left is already occupied by the NDP and the Greens which means the Liberals are finding it difficult to recover the votes they abandoned on the center right.

[August1991]

Dion took the party to the left for what I believe are ideological reasons. This move abandoned a large number of right of center voters who previously voted liberal and many of these voters are turning to the conservatives since they are the only party willing to address the concerns of that voting block. Unfortunately (for the Liberals), the left is already occupied by the NDP and the Greens which means the Liberals are finding it difficult to recover the votes they abandoned on the center right.

That's Harper's premise but there is some truth to it. (Dion wants Big Brother to solve our problems and he may not even be aware of how ideological he is being.)

If Bob Rae is the Barack Obama of Canadian politics, Stephane Dion is its Al Gore.

[munsinger]

Dion may be a fine person, but he is facing a number of problems

1. The Green Shift

Or....The Green Anchor....you simply have to be spending the time attacking the incumbent... not having to defend your own proposed policy. Calling a carbon tax (whoops, I mean shift) a bad policy when oil is $60.00 a barrel, then attempting to impliment it when the price of oil has almost doubled - defies common sense. Very few voters will buy the premise from ANY government, that a new tax (whoops) will be "reveune neutral". By its nature of increasing a number of energy costs and then returining the money later - it is very complicated and hard to explain (as well as expensive to impliment), particularly when Dion has to consider/provide an number of various "exemptions" for provinces and sectors. Contining to shift away from the centre of the political spectrum is a real bad idea for the Liberals, who are ending up elbowing the NDP and the Greens for votes....

2. Image

In the last session, watching Dion in the house was at times, downright painful. It is said that he is articulate and genuine in person or with small groups, but in the larger sphere, he comes off sounding fuzzy and awkward, when speaking English. In politics, you have to be able to explain concepts and polilcy in simple and concise language - a real struggle for Dion. The abject and frankly, gutless performance of the Liberals in opposition has been simply jam for butter for the Cons, in helping them characterize Dion as "spineless" "wimp" "weak", etc etc... Stuff like eating hot dogs with an knife and fork, does not help matters either....The ads dressing him in a hunting vest, and having him conquering the great outdoors....won't work, period.

3. Party

2/3 of the party was already unhappy, when Dion was selected leader. The 2 guys he beat (Iggy, Rae, are widely viewed as superior to Dion. The idea was to then de-emphasize the leader and run on the strength of the "Liberal Team" Nobody has seen these guys knocking themselves out to run with that particular ball. Out in the blogsphere, very little enthusiasm can be found, and on the ground local orgainzation has been lacking, particular in Quebec.

[Topaz]

I can't vote in this poll as there is more than one choice I would like to choose.

I can't even get to the point to decide if Dion is intelligent or not - I can't listen to him long enough. I can barely understand the guy - even less than I could understand Chretien.

I don't think he would represent Canada well because we are a predominately English speaking country and this guy can't speak English.

I also don't think he can represent Canada well until he gives up his French citizenship. It might be okay for a regular Joe Citizen to have two nationalities... but the loyalties of the leader should be without question.

Finally he won't get my vote because I don't agree with this green shift crap and I don't think we should be spending any money on any sort of carbon scheme.

This election will be the first one I have ever voted conservative.

Can you understand the English of the members of Harpers group from Quebec?? Blackburn and Bernier for two are very hard to understand when they speak English and most of the time they end up speaking French. Today, I hear Dion talk and his English is easily understood and if you can't really understand him check your hearing.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

Can you understand the English of the members of Harpers group from Quebec?? Blackburn and Bernier for two are very hard to understand when they speak English and most of the time they end up speaking French. Today, I hear Dion talk and his English is easily understood and if you can't really understand him check your hearing.

Blackburn and Bernier are not running to be leader of the country.

My hearing is fine, but his form of English is painful to listen to. Even more painful than Bush's. Anyway, Dion's English is the least of my concerns when considering the possibility that he could be prime minister. The main reason I won't be voting liberal is to give a clear indication of what I think of this 'green shift' - and that is that I am absolutely against it.

I think at this stage, without question, Harper will be the prime minister again. The only question is whether he will have a majority or another minority.

[fellowtraveller]

The correct answer: leadership.

The polls show Canadians just don't see him as a leader. That is a deathknell. It is confiremd by the type of campaign that Harper has chosen, whcih is to try and get Canadians to choose between Himself personally and Dion, which he knows he will win.

[Ontario Loyalist]

How about the media doesn't want him to be PM? Hasn't the Jewish community shifted their support to Harper?

Edited September 15, 2008 by Ontario Loyalist

[Bryan]

A little bit of all of the above.

The two main things for me are:

I do not believe that he is even half as intelligent as he and his supporters think he is. The way he comes across is that he's blissfully unaware of the consequences of his words and actions. Perhaps that is just his inability to communicate in english, but whatever the reason, he comes across as being dumb.

I don't believe a word he says when it comes to revenue neutral tax shifting. There is simply no credibility in that claim from any political leader, and the very fact that he's attempting to use it diminishes his credibility overall.

[fellowtraveller]

How about the media doesn't want him to be PM? Hasn't the Jewish community shifted their support to Harper?

Are you implying that the Joos control the media?

[Ontario Loyalist]

Are you implying that the Joos control the media?

No, but I would agree with the statement that the Jewish community has a dispropportionately high amount of influence in politics given its size.