Israeli Cabinet Minister Says its OK to Kidnap Iranian Pres...

[HisSelf]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=5758376

Rafi Eitan, who helped bring Holocaust murderer Adolph Eichmann to justice, says that Ahmadinejad is no better and that it would be OK to kidnap him and bring him to Israel for a trial. Hey Rafi! Can you help get Dick Cheney to the Hague?

Seriously though...

Watch for more news stories featuring Ahmadinejad denying the Holocaust. Of course CNN and Fox will feature the Ahmadinejad statements without a preamble mentioning Eitan's lunatic ravings.

Insert migraine smiley here....

[M.Dancer]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=5758376

Rafi Eitan, who helped bring Holocaust murderer Adolph Eichmann to justice, says that Ahmadinejad is no better and that it would be OK to kidnap him and bring him to Israel for a trial.

No he did not say that.

"A man like Ahmadinejad who threatens genocide has to be brought for trial in The Hague," said Rafi Eitan, referring to the international war crimes tribunal in the Netherlands. "And all options are open in terms of how he should be brought."

Edited September 10, 2008 by M.Dancer

[Black Dog]

Precrime!

[HisSelf]

Precrime!

Hey you! Almost a criminal! Come here! LOL.

[BC_chick]

Precrime!

In Orwellian terms - thought-crime.

[M.Dancer]

In Orwellian terms - thought-crime.

Better, in Canadian terms, Hate Crime.

[HisSelf]

In Orwellian terms - thought-crime.

Ha ha. Yo BC Chick!

[Oleg Bach]

In Orwellian terms - thought-crime.

Hate or loathing is disapporval is not a crime - it is a hate crime if highly orgainized - institutionalized conspriatorial..that leads to eventual genocide...BUT if I discriminate between what is good for me and what is bad - and I - seperate myself from or exclude and individual or a group - it is not a hate crime - it is my right to good and prosperous happy surival. Now - as far as the pesky cabalist secularist jews - who hide bebind God but have broken the contract with goodness - well they can take a flying leap - and YOU do not kidnap a head of state because you happen to be a powerful secularist mafia backed by mislead anglo nominal Christians - it's a no no - you do not assasinate or kidnap a leader - if allowed - then all leaders are vulneralbe - there must be rule of law - apparently the Jews (nominal) have no respect for the rule of law or the rest of the world.

[Rue]

I love it. You get caught red-handed misquoting someone and all you can do is act the bafoon and does it surprise be Blackdog and BC chirp right in. Why of course not. Wink wink nudge nudge, its Israel right. Israel bad. Poo poo ka ka. Yuck yuck. Haven't posted an Israel poo post in awhile . Better send one out. Yuck yuck.

Here can we move on from the poo poo and ka ka. The context of the actual comments of course flew over the head of the person who started this thread who already has decided anything that comes out of the mouth of an Israeli is brown and poo poo.

The actual discussion has to deal with the concept of inciting hatred. Oh yes in Canada we do have criminal laws that say, if you say something that encourages another to commit a crime, that is a crime. I know it is a difficult concept for some of us convinced of what poo is to understand that. How about we stop playing with the poo then and put it down, wash our hands, and try grasp the actual concept that was discussed.

Precrime. What the hell does that mean. No not everything you say out loud is a crime. Yes it can be very tricky crossing the line between freedom of speech and going the next step and using speech to encourage a crime.

It is a very fine line indeed and it depends on context and circumstance and proximity to those being targetted and those being incited and it depends on whether someone believes there is a reasonable likelihood those words will cause others to act.

All difficult and complex things to prove and be accurate about.

Clearly in this case no one is going to arrest the Iranian President for his comments. If anything his comments will be applauded and probably get him some sort of award at the United Nations.

No he can not be arrested and tried for an international war crime simply because of what he said. Everyone knows that. The actual comment that was misquoted was raised not in a literal sense but as deliberate rhetoric. It was never meant to be taken literally and the audience did not take it literally.

But obviously our Israel Committee did.

Good for all of you. Keep the world safe from Israelis. You know how crazy and unjust they are. Keep up your mission.

[udm]

Asked if kidnapping was acceptable, Eitan replied; "Yes. Any way to bring him for trial in The Hague is a possibility."

So... he did say it's okay to kidnap Ahmadinejad. I don't get what you all are going on about.

The only thing HisSelf got wrong was saying he wanted him to be brought to trial in Israel as opposed to The Hague. I don't see how that makes it any better a thing to say. Kidnapping is the issue, not the location of the trial.

Edited September 24, 2008 by udm

[M.Dancer]

Asked if kidnapping was acceptable, Eitan replied; "Yes. Any way to bring him for trial in The Hague is a possibility."

So... he did say it's okay to kidnap Ahmadinejad. I don't get what you all are going on about.

The only thing HisSelf got wrong was saying he wanted him to be brought to trial in Israel as opposed to The Hague. I don't see how that makes it any better a thing to say. Kidnapping is the issue, not the location of the trial.

No of course.....suggesting Israel over an independant impartial court doesn't change the tone at all....

I suppose they should have let Eichmann live unpunished rather than kidnap him.

[BC_chick]

The actual discussion has to deal with the concept of inciting hatred. Oh yes in Canada we do have criminal laws that say, if you say something that encourages another to commit a crime, that is a crime. I know it is a difficult concept for some of us convinced of what poo is to understand that. How about we stop playing with the poo then and put it down, wash our hands, and try grasp the actual concept that was discussed.

I started a thread a while back about whether or not Hillary Clinton (then running as Democratic candidate) would be justified in nuking Iran if Iran were to ever drop one on Israel. I was arguing that within the justice system, we subdue a criminal when we have the means to do so, not kill him/her and his/her family. IMO, that would be revenge, not justice.

I gave up on the thread when a number of people, convincingly, argued that you cannot apply criminal law to international law.

Funny to see how the tides turn when it's advantageous for their argument.

[M.Dancer]

Funny to see how the tides turn when it's advantageous for their argument.

Except The Hague is under international law.

Funny how some people are oblivious to facts when it comes toallowing the nuking jews...

Edited September 24, 2008 by M.Dancer

[Black Dog]

I love it. You get caught red-handed misquoting someone and all you can do is act the bafoon and does it surprise be Blackdog and BC chirp right in. Why of course not. Wink wink nudge nudge, its Israel right. Israel bad. Poo poo ka ka. Yuck yuck. Haven't posted an Israel poo post in awhile . Better send one out. Yuck yuck.

Here can we move on from the poo poo and ka ka. The context of the actual comments of course flew over the head of the person who started this thread who already has decided anything that comes out of the mouth of an Israeli is brown and poo poo.

The actual discussion has to deal with the concept of inciting hatred. Oh yes in Canada we do have criminal laws that say, if you say something that encourages another to commit a crime, that is a crime. I know it is a difficult concept for some of us convinced of what poo is to understand that. How about we stop playing with the poo then and put it down, wash our hands, and try grasp the actual concept that was discussed.

Aside from the childish scatalogical ranting, what the hell are you on about?

Here's the quote from Eitan (taken from Haaretz):

"Kidnapping enemy leaders is a legitimate method used by states to combat threats to their existence," Eitan said. "A man like Ahmadinejad who threats the existence of the state of Israel and is also preparing for it is worthy of being brought before the international court in The Hague even if it is by means of abduction. Abductions still occur. It is a fact that the Americans do it all the time when they kidnap Al-Qaida operatives in Iraq quietly and without any fanfare and bring them to trial."

...

"[Abductions] are done throughout the free world," Eitan said. "Abductions allow for room to maneuver. Just like we kidnapped the senior Hezbollah figure Mustafa Dirani - which enabled us to trade him in exchange for our people."

The question being: on what grounds would they kidnap Ahmadinejad? Eitan says the fact he "threatens the existence of the state of Israel" is sufficient grounds (though I doubt that would be actually sufficient). The idea of prosecuting someone for crime they have not yet committed ("precrime") was the lynchpin of Philip K Dick's "Minority Report". All caught up now?

No he can not be arrested and tried for an international war crime simply because of what he said. Everyone knows that. The actual comment that was misquoted was raised not in a literal sense but as deliberate rhetoric. It was never meant to be taken literally and the audience did not take it literally.

Given I've seen the same quote in different sources, you can't claim he was misquoted. At best, you can claim his argument was misconstrued, but it seems pretty cut and dried to me: Israel reserves the right to kidnap and prosecute people who "threaten" the state of Israel. If there's another interpretation, I'd be open to hearing it.

[BC_chick]

Except The Hague is under international law.

Funny how some people are oblivious to facts when it comes toallowing the nuking jews...

Ahmadinejad said he's going to nuke Jews?

[M.Dancer]

Ahmadinejad said he's going to nuke Jews?

No he hasn't. He just acts like he will. Some would wait till he actually comitts the crime, other would act before....

[BC_chick]

No he hasn't. He just acts like he will. Some would wait till he actually comitts the crime, other would act before....

So the "crime" for which he is to be taken to Hague is.... ?

[M.Dancer]

So the "crime" for which he is to be taken to Hague is.... ?

He was captured alive?

W00T W00T

[BC_chick]

He was captured alive?

W00T W00T

No legitimate answer. How surprising.

Thanks for coming by.

[M.Dancer]

No legitimate answer. How surprising.

Thanks for coming by.

Surely you have a legitimate question other than a rhetorical one??

[BC_chick]

Surely you have a legitimate question other than a rhetorical one??

It wasn't rhetorical. You and Rue insist Ahmadinejad committed a crime, but you fail to say what. At least Rue made the attempt.

[M.Dancer]

It wasn't rhetorical. You and Rue insist Ahmadinejad committed a crime, but you fail to say what. At least Rue made the attempt.

Really? Rue insists he comitted a crime?

What did Rue say....

Clearly in this case no one is going to arrest the Iranian President for his comments. If anything his comments will be applauded and probably get him some sort of award at the United Nations.

No he can not be arrested and tried for an international war crime simply because of what he said. Everyone knows that. The actual comment that was misquoted was raised not in a literal sense but as deliberate rhetoric. It was never meant to be taken literally and the audience did not take it literally.

Doesn't take a lot to confuse you does it?

I have no interest in seeing him arrested. Personally for his glowing achievements in the area of international relations I think the Israelis should give him a present of a nice new cell phone.

[BC_chick]

Really? Rue insists he comitted a crime?

What did Rue say....

Doesn't take a lot to confuse you does it?

I have no interest in seeing him arrested. Personally for his glowing achievements in the area of international relations I think the Israelis should give him a present of a nice new cell phone.

Insist was the wrong choice of words, I concede - I was at work and I was trying to rush my post.

However, what I meant to say, and what I should have said, is that both you and Rue are making a case that there is some sort of legitimacy to this Israeli cabinet minister's statement given Ahmadinejad's posturing against Israel.

You, by making the connection with hate crime in Canada

Better, in Canadian terms, Hate Crime.

.... and same for Rue if you read his quote to which I was replying.

The actual discussion has to deal with the concept of inciting hatred. Oh yes in Canada we do have criminal laws that say, if you say something that encourages another to commit a crime, that is a crime. I know it is a difficult concept for some of us convinced of what poo is to understand that. How about we stop playing with the poo then and put it down, wash our hands, and try grasp the actual concept that was discussed.

That's when I responded by saying I was persuaded on another thread to agree that criminal law and international law are very different. Country leaders posture all the time. Should we kidnap George Bush every time he alludes to nuking Iran?

Oh, btw, it wouldn't hurt you to try some civility and post just once in a while without personally insulting me. I don't have much regard for your opinions either, but I keep those opinions to myself. Why must you be such a classless jerk EVERY time?

Edited September 25, 2008 by BC_chick

[M.Dancer]

Oh, btw, it wouldn't hurt you to try some civility and post just once in a while without personally insulting me. I don't have much regard for your opinions either, but I keep those opinions to myself. Why must you be such a classless jerk EVERY time?

Umm...the irony.

[BC_chick]

Umm...the irony.

No irony unless I insult you in every one of my posts.

I asked you to keep your insults at least sporadic if you must make things personal. That's why I capitalised EVERY in my statement in order to emphasize the fact that you can't seem to post anything without getting personal.

Seeing how my post was the very first time I insulted you, I'm obviously living by what I ask of you to do.