Why do we have "Ridings"? Do we still use horses to collect

[PoliticalCitizen]

Again I need your help, my knowledgeable friends.

My impression was that in a Democracy the will of the majority of the people is represented in the Government. However in Canada I witness quite the opposite.

First of all - what's up with these "Riding" things? Who uses a horse to collect ballots today? Why am I given the choice of voting for some obscure "riding" candidates instead of voting for the PM directly?

And second - how is this fair that the Bloq Quebequois (which shouldn't even be allowed to be a Federal Party as it only represents the interests of one "have-not" Province while using up the Federal tax money taken from 2-3 "have" provinces) gets many seats and the Green Party (which is a true Federal party) gets nothing?

Just think about this: BQ with a 10.58% of popular vote gets 54 seats; GP with 4.48% of popular vote gets 0 seats... And if we take it one step further - how can BQ claim to have ANY popular Canadian vote? They can only have Quebequois popular vote...

What ways are there to change this old crappy system and get a government that better represents us?

Edited September 8, 2008 by PoliticalCitizen

[Riverwind]

First of all - what's up with these "Riding" things? Who uses a horse to collect ballots today? Why am I given the choice of voting for some obscure "riding" candidates instead of voting for the PM directly?

We have a "representative democracy" which means we elect a representative to go to Ottawa and "represent" our issues. In modern times many people seem to forget that and think they are voting for the PM. They aren't. They are, at best, voting for the PM's team.

What ways are there to change this old crappy system and get a government that better represents us?

Vote

[PoliticalCitizen]

Vote

Vote for what?

We had an attempt to introduce a representative / proportional system in Ontario and I voted for it. I'm sure most people who came to the polls looked at the paper and with the thought "What the f*ck is that?" crossed "No"...

[White Doors]

Vote for what?

We had an attempt to introduce a representative / proportional system in Ontario and I voted for it. I'm sure most people who came to the polls looked at the paper and with the thought "What the f*ck is that?" crossed "No"...

dissastifaction with the result does not negate the validity of the process

[PoliticalCitizen]

dissastifaction with the result does not negate the validity of the process

That was for Provincial election system.

Do we get a vote on the Federal one?

[M.Dancer]

First of all - what's up with these "Riding" things? Who uses a horse to collect ballots today? Why am I given the choice of voting for some obscure "riding" candidates instead of voting for the PM directly?

It has nothing to do with riding a horse. It is old Saxon/norse english and it refers to a geographical division. Literally it means a third.

Edited September 8, 2008 by M.Dancer

[WIP]

Vote for what?

We had an attempt to introduce a representative / proportional system in Ontario and I voted for it. I'm sure most people who came to the polls looked at the paper and with the thought "What the f*ck is that?" crossed "No"...

The proportional system wasn't explained adequately in the few brochures sent out before the election. I'm sure the McGuinty Government didn't want it to go through, and opponents whined about creating extra seats in Queen's Park( even though the total would still have been less than before Harris cut the number to match federal riding boundaries) and the new MPP's not being accountable on the local level -- as if any MP or MPP is accountable to constituents now! Under the present parliamentary system, they take their orders from the Premier/Prime Minister, not the people in the ridings, so what the hell difference would it have made on that front?

A proportional system would have made it easier for smaller parties to raise new issues and gain a voice in Parliament; established opposition parties like the NDP would have had more heat to keep up with the times, or fade into irrelevancy; and we wouldn't have to deal with prime ministerial dictatorships that occur every time the winner has enough seats to form a majority government.

[PoliticalCitizen]

It has nothing to do with riding a horse. It is old Saxon/norse english and it refers to a geographical division. Literally it means a third.

Thank you. I had a feeling it's something archaic..

But we're in the 21st Century! Third Millenium!

Shouldn't we all vote electronically and all votes to be considered equal (regardless of the "riding")?

Edited September 8, 2008 by PoliticalCitizen

[Riverwind]

We had an attempt to introduce a representative / proportional system in Ontario and I voted for it. I'm sure most people who came to the polls looked at the paper and with the thought "What the f*ck is that?" crossed "No"...

More likely they realized that all systems have flaws and the current system works well enough. Edited September 8, 2008 by Riverwind

[M.Dancer]

Thank you. I had a feeling it's something archaic..

But we're in the 21st Century! Third Millenium!

Shouldn't we all vote electronically and all votes to be considered equal (regardless of the "riding")?

All votes are considered equally, regardless of riding.

Don't they have basic citizenship classes for immirgants?

[Moonbox]

It's the only good way to do federalism.

Without the 'riding' system you end up with up with large urban areas dominating the political scene to the detriment of everwhere else. These other areas end up feeling completely sidelined with all of their issues being ignored while urban areas like the GTA get all of the funding and attention. It's terrible for federalism and places like the prairies would have nothing to do with a Canada under that system.

[Moonbox]

More likely they realized that all systems have flaws and the current system works well enough.

I voted against it because I'd prefer not to further centralize Ontario policy on Toronto and the GTA. Anyone with a brain outside of the GTA voted against it, and thankfully nobody in the GTA understood it either.

[M.Dancer]

I voted against it because I'd prefer not to further centralize Ontario policy on Toronto and the GTA. Anyone with a brain outside of the GTA voted against it, and thankfully nobody in the GTA understood it either.

I voted against it. I am not for the balkanization of the political landscape with every special interest group represented by one loose canon...

[Moonlight Graham]

What ways are there to change this old crappy system and get a government that better represents us?

If you want to change the system, then write to your local MP & voice your opinion. Write to the PM, the leaders of all the major parties, and the people who are running for each party in your riding. Start a petition, or search for an exisiting one on the interent. Write letters to editor in newspapers & magazines of your choice.

Voicing your opinion on a message board is a good start, but likely won't reach the powers than can enact change.

[PoliticalCitizen]

All votes are considered equally, regardless of riding.

Don't they have basic citizenship classes for immirgants?

Have you thought your answer over (besides the denigrating comment about immigrants)?

And no, there are no classes. They sent me a booklet with information as basic as to be understood by Grade 1 students.

How can my vote for, let's say, Liberal Party in a "riding" where the Conservatives got the majority of votes be the same with a Liberal vote in a "riding" where Liberal got the most?

My vote for any other party than the one that got the majority in my riding is GARBAGE, conts for nothing and a HUGE turn-off for would-be voters. Why should I bother voting when the majority in my "riding" are Conservative (or Liberal)?

[PoliticalCitizen]

It's the only good way to do federalism.

Without the 'riding' system you end up with up with large urban areas dominating the political scene to the detriment of everwhere else. These other areas end up feeling completely sidelined with all of their issues being ignored while urban areas like the GTA get all of the funding and attention. It's terrible for federalism and places like the prairies would have nothing to do with a Canada under that system.

That's a valid concern, but should not be used to stiffle evolution of the archaic voting system.

There should be a functional mechanism (kind of like the Senate, but working) to defend the interests of the remote and less populated areas.

At the same time today there's a clear discrimination against the urban voters as 1,000 urban votes may count as 1 Prarie vote. What are we, a dime a dozen?

[guyser]

How can my vote for, let's say, Liberal Party in a "riding" where the Conservatives got the majority of votes be the same with a Liberal vote in a "riding" where Liberal got the most?

Because everyone gets one vote , and each vote carries the same weight.**

**not valid in Chicago.

My vote for any other party than the one that got the majority in my riding is GARBAGE, conts for nothing and a HUGE turn-off for would-be voters. Why should I bother voting when the majority in my "riding" are Conservative (or Liberal)?

Why? So that you can partake in democracy in action.......plus talk on political forums. If you dont vote, you dont come here to partake.

We make an exception for mikedavid because he provides comic relief.

[PoliticalCitizen]

If you want to change the system, then write to your local MP & voice your opinion. Write to the PM, the leaders of all the major parties, and the people who are running for each party in your riding. Start a petition, or search for an exisiting one on the interent. Write letters to editor in newspapers & magazines of your choice.

Voicing your opinion on a message board is a good start, but likely won't reach the powers than can enact change.

Thank you, I may explore these venues after understanding better what can be done and what we're up against as a result the discussion in this thread.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Because everyone gets one vote , and each vote carries the same weight.**

**not valid in Chicago.

Why? So that you can partake in democracy in action.......plus talk on political forums. If you dont vote, you dont come here to partake.

We make an exception for mikedavid because he provides comic relief.

How did my vote influence the political landscape in a riding where another party won?

How did I contribute to the "Democratic process"?

The common result: a citizen wasted their time just to feel a loser...

[guyser]

How did my vote influence the political landscape in a riding where another party won?

IN Parry Sound/Muskoka, Tony Clement won by 15 votes. You figure it out.

How did I contribute to the "Democratic process"?

By getting off your ass and going to vote, thats how. You voted .....they counted the votes....your candidate won/lost. It really is simple.

The common result: a citizen wasted their time just to feel a loser...

Good point. I think you are on to something here.

Lets apply it to sports too. Ever lose? Did you waste your time? Yes and no is the answer.

We could just say......oh...pick a winner and be done with it. Would you like that? Nah, me neither.

Allow me to ask please....where have you immigrated from. I ask since you seem so jaded as to democracy in action.

[PoliticalCitizen]

IN Parry Sound/Muskoka, Tony Clement won by 15 votes. You figure it out.

By getting off your ass and going to vote, thats how. You voted .....they counted the votes....your candidate won/lost. It really is simple.

Let's say "my candidate" (or more whoever the party leader appointed to this particular "riding" and forced me to vote for, hoever obscure that person may be) lost.

Does my vote mean nothing to my country?

And if yes, then WHY?

Good point. I think you are on to something here.

Lets apply it to sports too. Ever lose? Did you waste your time? Yes and no is the answer.

We could just say......oh...pick a winner and be done with it. Would you like that? Nah, me neither.

Hahaha

Sports, eh? Well, in sports it is YOU who wins or loses. In a truly "Democratic" election every vote should count, not just the winning ones.

The SYSTEM has to serve the PEOPLE, othewise everyone loses and you end up with a crappy minority Conservative government that behaved like a majority most of the time because they knew they won't be called on it because of the elections and the crappy "ridings"...

That's hardly the result voters deposited their efforts for...

Allow me to ask please....where have you immigrated from. I ask since you seem so jaded as to democracy in action.

USSR. Try to find it on the map

[Riverwind]

Does my vote mean nothing to my country?

If you vote for losing party that party gets a bit more funding for the next election. More importantly, the votes for minority parties are not ignored by the major parties because the major parties will want those votes in the next election. I think there is a very direct connection between the Liberal Green Shift and the non-insignificant support that went to the Green Party in the last election.

[guyser]

Let's say "my candidate" lost.

Does my vote mean nothing to my country?

And if yes, then WHY?

NO, it means your candidate lost. My point in using Tony Clement was that he won by 15 votes. I could probably in one day fnd 16 people who didnt vote. Had they, the outcome could be different.

It also indicates strength of that candidate. If CPC gets 1 vote more than the Lib then the libs know that riding is contestable next time and they need to pay attention to it. Ergo, that may be why Muskoka will host the G8 in 2 years time.......and likely with a Lib sitting as the MP. (so sorry Tony, eat less ice cream next summer)

Sports, eh? Well, in sports it is YOU who wins or loses. In a truly "Democratic" election every vote should count, not just the winning ones.

They all count. If your candidate has less you lose. If t'other way around, you win.

USSR. Try to find it on the map

I have an old map. First I find Alaska, then I go west to a vast barren of land. It used to be huge....

..now not so much.

[Wild Bill]

Thank you. I had a feeling it's something archaic..

But we're in the 21st Century! Third Millenium!

Shouldn't we all vote electronically and all votes to be considered equal (regardless of the "riding")?

Good Lord, what an elitist idea! You've just removed all geographic representation so that Ontario and Quebec would run the entire country and the rest of the folks would just have to "pound salt up their butts", as my east coaster gramma would say.

Geez, with such a keen grasp on how to foster unity in the country it's a shame we can't vote for YOU!

Edited September 8, 2008 by Wild Bill

[blueblood]

Good Lord, what an elitist idea! You've just removed all geographic representation so that Ontario and Quebec would run the entire country and the rest of the folks would just have to "pound salt up their butts", as my east coaster gramma would say.

Geez, with such a keen grasp on how to foster unity in the country it's a shame we can't vote for YOU!

Cut him some slack, he did come from a communist country and is jaded that that many ordinary people pick who's in charge, not elitists pick who's in charge and everyone follow obediently.

You guys forgot the other option of dissatisfaction of our democratic system ---> emmigration.