Gang Warz

[DogOnPorch]

Life in BC's interior is no longer the peaceful experience it once was. Now gangsters shoot it out with alarming regularity on the streets of not only major centres like Vancouver but in smaller towns like Prince George. In that small community a gun battle broke out in broad daylight right in the downtown core between rival gang members with over 40 rounds being fired. Luckily, only gangsters were shot and injured but the next time...who knows?

Sgt. Raj Sidhu in charge of the Task Force says the war is mainly about cocaine and crack cocaine. “We are currently investigating the relation of these crimes between Prince George and Vancouver gangs. These do not appear to be Hell’s Angel driven however as we have not dealt with them for months. They are using guns however, mainly stolen semi-automatic handguns, and shotguns.”

The gangs that currently exist in Prince George include The Renegades, The Crew, The Independent Soldiers and a splinter of The Independent Soldiers.

The shooting that occurred last night was between The Independent Soldiers and the splinter gang. The three people who were in the vehicle were targeted. R.C.M.P are still investigating what weapons were used and the amount of gunshots fired. Police can confirm there was gunfire from both parties...link

Then there are the reports of widescale torture going on in the Prince George underworld re: failed drug debts and other so-called 'offences' against the criminal order of things.

On July 30, 2008 R.C.M.P attended a known crack shack in the 2200 block of Norwood Street and heard a man downstairs. They discovered a male who was shackled and had been severely beaten and tortured. The male owed money to a local gang and was beaten until they believed he had repaid his debt. Three adults and one young offender were arrested in relation to this incident.

The RCMP seem almost ineffective when it comes to curbing such gang activities. Talk of some civilian group to 'take back the streets' is now common in the Prince George coffee shops. Odd with all this gun registry and stiff laws re handguns that the situation has only gotten worse...not better. At least the crooks know the average civilian is now unarmed in his/her own home.

Normally, we'd be putting the blame on the Hell's Angels around these parts....but, these appear to be both Native Indian and Asian gangs causing all the gun play.

Any comments? Or perhaps your city is going through similar troubles...post away.

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As long as there are guns, the individual that wants a gun for a crime is going to have one and going to get it.

---President Ronald Reagan

Edited August 8, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

Yawn.

[eyeball]

Okay, let me qualify that with a so what?

This sort of prohibition related violence has been going on for decades and will continue to go on forever or until such time as the government capitulates and starts selling the stuff itself. Like it did with booze and gambling.

As for people who become addicts...too bad so sad. Shit happens, deal with it.

[DogOnPorch]

Okay, let me qualify that with a so what?

This sort of prohibition related violence has been going on for decades and will continue to go on forever or until such time as the government capitulates and starts selling the stuff itself. Like it did with booze and gambling.

As for people who become addicts...too bad so sad. Shit happens, deal with it.

...and I can name all the 5 Families, as well.

Never dealt with a home invasion...have you?

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As long as it isn't in my backyard.

[AngusThermopyle]

You oversimplify the problem. Illicit substances and there control are part of the problem, so is control of prostitution. However a large part relates to control and power, saving face for some, protecting turf for others. Then there are the factors such as disaffected youth, lack of oportunity for youth etc. etc.

When one looks at the big picture it becomes a horrendously complex problem. Personally I believe part of the solution to be rather simple. Meaningfull sentences and an absolute zero tolerance policy towards such activity. This may not be the solution but it certainly wouldn't make the situation worse.

It's easy to be simplistic about the issue when ones life is not affected in any appretiable way by these problems. The picture probably looks entirely different when one is caught in the middle though.

[DogOnPorch]

Well all I can say as a Joe Sixpack is that when bullets start flying all around you, it's damn scary. If it was a one time deal, I wouldn't be so worried about this sort of crime. But it's not. It is becoming a daily thing...almost a 'Dead Pool' sort of dealie. Which lowlife will get whacked today? Will someone innocent be in the way? Etc, etc...

Last Christmas, a similar exchange of bullets and knives occured at one of Prince George's major shopping malls. The only funny bit in all that is that several thousand dollars in cash was spread into the wind, much to the fightened delight of some brave citizens who went on a money grab while the fight went on around them. Money trumps safety??

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There is a great streak of violence in every human being. If it is not channeled and understood, it will break out in war or in madness.

---Sam Peckinpah

[HisSelf]

Yeah. Drugs and prostitution. Used to be gambling and booze.

So legalize marijuana and call girls, what have you got left? The real bad guys. Cocaine, heroine, nicotine, meth.... Oh wait. Nicotine is not illegal.

We have seen the enemy and he is us.

[Wild Bill]

Well all I can say as a Joe Sixpack is that when bullets start flying all around you, it's damn scary. If it was a one time deal, I wouldn't be so worried about this sort of crime. But it's not. It is becoming a daily thing...almost a 'Dead Pool' sort of dealie. Which lowlife will get whacked today? Will someone innocent be in the way? Etc, etc...

Last Christmas, a similar exchange of bullets and knives occured at one of Prince George's major shopping malls. The only funny bit in all that is that several thousand dollars in cash was spread into the wind, much to the fightened delight of some brave citizens who went on a money grab while the fight went on around them. Money trumps safety??

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There is a great streak of violence in every human being. If it is not channeled and understood, it will break out in war or in madness.

---Sam Peckinpah

You west coast folks should take a tip from David Miller, the mayor of Toronto. Simply ban all guns, especially gun clubs.

Presto! Problem solved!

Just ask him!

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah. Drugs and prostitution. Used to be gambling and booze.

So legalize marijuana and call girls, what have you got left? The real bad guys. Cocaine, heroine, nicotine, meth.... Oh wait. Nicotine is not illegal.

We have seen the enemy and he is us.

Another armchair general. You can keep me covered while I try for the door.

lol...indeed Wild Bill.

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I'm too busy acting like I'm not naive. I've seen it all; I was here first.

---Kurt Cobain

[Wilber]

Okay, let me qualify that with a so what?

This sort of prohibition related violence has been going on for decades and will continue to go on forever or until such time as the government capitulates and starts selling the stuff itself. Like it did with booze and gambling.

As for people who become addicts...too bad so sad. Shit happens, deal with it.

Bullshit, I've lived here all my life and what is going on now hasn't been going on for decades.

We have seen the enemy and he is us.

You are right hiself, if you chose to be a customer of these people, you give them validity and are part of the problem.

[Argus]

Bullshit, I've lived here all my life and what is going on now hasn't been going on for decades.

Can you say I-M-M-I-G-R-A-T-I-O-N R-E-F-O-R-M??

I know you can.

[eyeball]

Bullshit, I've lived here all my life and what is going on now hasn't been going on for decades.

Its a global village/market now Wilber, you need to get with the times.

You are right hiself, if you chose to be a customer of these people, you give them validity and are part of the problem.

No, users are far more than just part of the problem they are its cause. The problem is demand not supply. Prohibition is trying to repeal the law of supply and demand. Repealing the law of gravity would probably be easier.

[DogOnPorch]

Its a global village/market now Wilber, you need to get with the times.

No, users are far more than just part of the problem they are its cause. The problem is demand not supply. Prohibition is trying to repeal the law of supply and demand. Repealing the law of gravity would probably be easier.

Either way, gun battles in the streets and torture chambers are not part of the Canada I remember growing up. Hard drugs have always been illegal in Canada for our purposes; so the current behaviour isn't to be excused as being a simple supply and demand problem. Stories are flying about re: brutal torture for as little as owing $100 to these gangs. I agree that these gangsters get what's coming to them for the lifestyle they lead. However, when you and your family are running for cover as a gunfight breaks out on a downtown street in broad daylight, you yourself might feel not enough is being done to curb the problem...eh? The last time I felt threatened like this was when Gerry Kelly & crew blew off a large bomb in front of the Old Bailey while my parents and I were a mere block away (showing my age...that was 1973).

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I am like any other man. All I do is supply a demand.

---Al Capone

Edited August 9, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[Wilber]

Its a global village/market now Wilber, you need to get with the times.

It's also a country with a legal system that refuses to take these people off the street.

[eyeball]

It's also a country with a legal system that refuses to take these people off the street.

That's because its a legal system that can see the writing on a crumbling wall.

[eyeball]

Either way, gun battles in the streets and torture chambers are not part of the Canada I remember growing up. Hard drugs have always been illegal in Canada for our purposes; so the current behaviour isn't to be excused as being a simple supply and demand problem. Stories are flying about re: brutal torture for as little as owing $100 to these gangs.

Its pretty sad how violent and callous people are becoming alright.

I agree that these gangsters get what's coming to them for the lifestyle they lead.

By the way have you seen the thread on empathy, or the growing lack thereof, in society?

However, when you and your family are running for cover as a gunfight breaks out on a downtown street in broad daylight, you yourself might feel not enough is being done to curb the problem...eh?

I'm sorry, what was the problem again?

[DogOnPorch]

I'm sorry, what was the problem again?

Should be rather obvious...then again...I'm in what McLeans magazine calls 'Canada's forth most dangerous city'. Maybe it's hard to empathise.

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Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on.

---Chopin

[guyser]

Should be rather obvious...then again...I'm in what McLeans magazine calls 'Canada's forth most dangerous city'. Maybe it's hard to empathise.

Move to Toronto then, lots of room for you and its safe too ! Winters are damp though.

[eyeball]

Should be rather obvious...then again...I'm in what McLeans magazine calls 'Canada's forth most dangerous city'. Maybe it's hard to empathise.

The feeling of empathy is kind of numbed by the mind-boggling stupidity of the war on drugs that have made things so dangerous. That is obvious isn't it?

[DogOnPorch]

The feeling of empathy is kind of numbed by the mind-boggling stupidity of the war on drugs that have made things so dangerous. That is obvious isn't it?

Whatever. Either way, things are heating up here. One gang seems to have burnt down the Hell's Angels/Renegades MC's favorite hangout. Three dead, several injured in the resulting fire...none of them bikers. This was the largest of several firebombings commited the same night. The media is careful to avoid speculation...they speculated once already and had to apologize to some of the gangsters for dragging their "good names" through the mud...lol. The ironing is delicious...as Bart Simpson once said. So officially, it's just a random fire. Explains why the police are guarding it 24/7 and have crime tape up all over the place.

Photos here...

These gangs are mostly the same characters who are also shooting it out in Vancouver.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/...eorge-fire.html

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/...crackhouse.html

Video of the hotel fire: http://www.opinion250.com/downloads/video/...elFireAlbum.wmv

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In the heat of a summer night

In the land of the dollar bill

When the town of Chicago died

And they talk about it still

---Paper Lace

Edited August 23, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[AngusThermopyle]

Here in alberta its the Hobema reserve thats a major problem. There are shootings on a weekly basis. Just this week a 20 year old woman was killed, the really telling fact is that the house she was in was the subject of a gang shooting two days earlier. Hobema is the place where that little girl was shot a month or two ago.

Both Standoff and Brocket have pretty big gang problems but they don't compare to whats going on in Hobema. Of course one has to be carefull with the subject or one can be branded as racist for directing legitimate criticism towards these gangs. Theres also more than a few people who flat out deny that any gang problem exists on the reserves. Those people aren't helping the situation at all, in fact in their own way they actually make the situation worse.

[DogOnPorch]

Here in alberta its the Hobema reserve thats a major problem. There are shootings on a weekly basis. Just this week a 20 year old woman was killed, the really telling fact is that the house she was in was the subject of a gang shooting two days earlier. Hobema is the place where that little girl was shot a month or two ago.

Both Standoff and Brocket have pretty big gang problems but they don't compare to whats going on in Hobema. Of course one has to be carefull with the subject or one can be branded as racist for directing legitimate criticism towards these gangs. Theres also more than a few people who flat out deny that any gang problem exists on the reserves. Those people aren't helping the situation at all, in fact in their own way they actually make the situation worse.

Ah...I see. Similar action. Here's the National Post's article on Hobbema.

It's a tough situation as the violence increases. RCMP are hard pressed to find witnesses or victims for that matter who will co-operate with them. This city is small enough...and Hobbema is even smaller, that it is very hard to stay unseen if one is too cocky in either direction. Known to the police...or known to 'them'. One must be careful. But, then the bikers around here can often be seen riding around in full colours, so you can tell they're not too worried about standing out.

I don't envy the police their jobs in these conditions.

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In a town of 12,000, a dozen firearm-related reports over the span of three weeks make Hobbema sound like a war zone.

---Craig Offman

[eyeball]

Either way, gun battles in the streets and torture chambers are not part of the Canada I remember growing up. Hard drugs have always been illegal in Canada for our purposes; so the current behaviour isn't to be excused as being a simple supply and demand problem.

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I am like any other man. All I do is supply a demand.

---Al Capone

If you don't think its a supply and demand problem why did you cite a source that says it is?

Experts attribute the increase in crime to a growing need for crack cocaine. As Alberta becomes more affluent from oil money, more people in boomtowns such as Fort McMurray want drugs. Despairing towns like Hobbema become thoroughfares for this kind of trafficking, and the gangs start jockeying for power. "It's supply and demand," observed Ms. Grekul.

Angus calls for throwing more people in jail but as the Nat Post story reveals...

Gangs rely on recruiting young people to do their bidding, and more than 50% of Hobbema is 18 or younger. They also bolster their number in prisons. A freed prisoner, however, typically remains attached to his gang and continues the cycle of violence on the outside, beginning with bringing in fresh blood.

Capitulate and regulate like I suggest has worked to reduce the gang warz in the past but this is apparently just too offensive to folks like Wilbur.

OTOH the National Post article indicates that affluence is a contributing factor. There's just too much money in too many people's hands and they have more than they know what to do with. Perhaps curbing crime is just a matter of simply raising people's taxes and taking their money away from them. We can easily imagine the howls of outrage that suggestion will get.

In lieu of capitulate and regulate, a totalitarian police state or a totalitarian economy we may have to allow for the possibility the status quo is as good as it will ever get.

Edited August 23, 2008 by eyeball

[DogOnPorch]

If you don't think its a supply and demand problem why did you cite a source that says it is?

Either you understand Catch 22 or you don't. BTW, we've raised your mission count to 45.

There's just too much money in too many people's hands and they have more than they know what to do with. Perhaps curbing crime is just a matter of simply raising people's taxes and taking their money away from them. We can easily imagine the howls of outrage that suggestion will get.

You actually might be onto something there.

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Hungry Joe collected lists of fatal diseases and arranged them in alphabetical order so that he could put his finger without delay on any one he wanted to worry about.

---Joseph Heller

[eyeball]

BTW, we've raised your mission count to 45.

What?