Assimilation

[guyser]

I don't abide by tyranny of the minority.

Maybe not, but you sure would like to live by tyranny of the majority. Either way it aint right. And that makes you no better.

No definitely not.

The fact is, I have nothing to do with YOUR problem and the federal government would prefer not to have either, or your problem would have been settled years ago.

We all, yes including you , have an interest in solving this dilemna. I am sure the people of Caledonia will be more than happy to show you why.

A purely democratic society abides by majority rule.

No, they abide by doing whats right. As in a majority of ignorant Canucks probably dont want reparations to the FN, but it is whats right and will be done.

I condemn the charter as a racist inspired piece of cultural legislation to LEGALLY allow tyranny of the minority.

Ah, but tyranny of the majority is cool with you? How convoluted that is.

Nope, majority rule is what makes society work.

You keep saying that but dont realize how foolish that is.

Werent you the one two weeks ago asking for attacks against the person to stop? If so what is all this....

No more of a racist than you are, culture freak.

And in a weird way jump around camp fires, grunting and making animal noises, like friends of yours.

I have nothing to do with it asshole

Do as I say not as I do?

Love,

The little homosexual.

[Black Dog]

AS for the topic of assimilation...

It is clear that most of our sets of reference for our laws, our political system and relationships between the various components of our society are British in origin. Newcomers should keep this in mind when INTEGRATING in our society. Integration, though, is not assimilation, that is the complete abandonment by individuals of their cultural identity and practice.

Immigrants should integrate into our society. They do not have or need to assimilate to do so.

Further, respect for the rights of the individuals is one of the hallmarks of our British and Canadian heritage, including the notion that these rights are not be trampled upon even in the name of the majority of citizens. Our Charter may not be perfect, but it examplifies the best of who we are as a society.

Excellent post highlighting a distinction that is lost on so many of the cultural Chicken Littles out there. I see precious little to suggest there's any effort underway to force Canadians to conform to minority cultures. Allowing RCMP officers to wear turbans is integration. Forcing all RCMP officers to wear turbans is assimilation.

[Rue]

First I would like to say I enjoy Canadien's excellent contributions. I appreciate when a poster makes an effort to provide historic reference and keep an open mind and see more then one side to an issue and not use history as a sledgehammer but as a tool to help us understand how present conflicts develop to what they are in the present tense.

Also I want to mention to Remiel even though you were referred to as a socialist nerd I know the truth and that is you are a dirty communist. I bet you have a beret and Che Guevara t-shirts. I know your type. You have box crates as furniture and you are grungy and have tatoos and studied sociology or you probably have a peirced tongue and feel sorry for Amy Winehouse. But I do not want to get personal Remiel and suggest anything untoward in that regard.

Finally, I wish to report to readers I am having problems assimilating. I have tried. I just can't get to the point of buying wonder bread and making baloney and mayonaisse sandwitches with it.

Also I have a problem with checkered pants. I tried wearing checkered pants but I had an anxiety attack.

Also I can't drink rye, but I do sometimes go to Tim Horton's.

Also because I am a Habs fan, assimlation is just not possible. Wearing a Maple Leafs sweater causes me to vomit just thinking about it.

[Leafless]

Maybe not, but you sure would like to live by tyranny of the majority. Either way it aint right. And that makes you no better.

What?

The majority already includes just about everyone and has freely allowed socialist ideologies to exist.

And now we have legal 'tyranny of the minority' as implemented by law oppressing and discriminating against all other Canadians.

Ha-ha--ha, tyranny of the majority, yeah, sure.

We all, yes including you , have an interest in solving this dilemna. I am sure the people of Caledonia will be more than happy to show you why.

The people of Caledonia have an obligation to the Canadian people to assimilate, er, integrate and be more patriotic to a country and a people that have allowed them to exist.

o, they abide by doing whats right. As in a majority of ignorant Canucks probably dont want reparations to the FN, but it is whats right and will be done.

That is your twisted opinion.

Ah, but tyranny of the majority is cool with you? How convoluted that is.

Convoluted? In your thesaurus again?

If anyone is convoluted, it is the minorities, that have taken the freedoms this country has granted all its citizens and transformed into law, minority ideologies that discriminate against all other Canadian citizens.

You keep saying that but dont realize how foolish that is.

How can it be foolish when the majority is in fact all Canadians themselves.

You are in the twilight zone.

Werent you the one two weeks ago asking for attacks against the person to stop? If so what is all this....

Do as I say not as I do?

Love,

The little homosexual.

When one continually provokes with NO moderator intervention, I react.

Sorry, there is no other alternative when moderators do not react.

[Leafless]

Excellent post highlighting a distinction that is lost on so many of the cultural Chicken Littles out there.

The only chicken littles are those Canadians with foreign ideologies who are ashamed of becoming Canadian.

I see precious little to suggest there's any effort underway to force Canadians to conform to minority cultures.

Should there be, ha, ha, ha, ha.

How ridiculous can you be.

Allowing RCMP officers to wear turbans is integration.

It is not.

It is unpatriotic RCMP who gave away their Canadian culture to facilitate foreign tyrannic minority ideologies.

Forcing all RCMP officers to wear turbans is assimilation.

Ha- ha- ha-ha.

This would be admitting defeat to a foreign occupation.

[CANADIEN]

Also because I am a Habs fan, assimlation is just not possible. Wearing a Maple Leafs sweater causes me to vomit just thinking about it.

Nothing to do with assimilation... It has the same effect on anybody who knows bad hockey when they see it.

Edited June 22, 2008 by CANADIEN

[Black Dog]

The only chicken littles are those Canadians with foreign ideologies who are ashamed of becoming Canadian.

You do know the story of Chicken Little, don't you? Because your comment makes no sense in the context of the analogy used.

Real chicken little types run around screaming that the end is nigh. You know: your M.O.?

Should there be, ha, ha, ha, ha.

How ridiculous can you be.

Is there or isn't there? If there is: where's the evidence?

It is not.

It is unpatriotic RCMP who gave away their Canadian culture to facilitate foreign tyrannic minority ideologies.

How many RCMP officers wear turbans? A handful. Not all. Canadian culture, the red serge etc is just fine, thanks.

Ha- ha- ha-ha.

This would be admitting defeat to a foreign occupation.

W...T...F?

[Leafless]

You do know the story of Chicken Little, don't you? Because your comment makes no sense in the context of the analogy used.

Chicken Little to-day just means a mistaken hysterical belief disaster is imminent.

So seen through the eyes of especially ethnic immigrants this could be inviting some sort of personal disaster if they allowed themselves to become Canadian.

Is there or isn't there? If there is: where's the evidence?

You said: "I see precious little to suggest there's any effort underway to force Canadians to conform to minority cultures."

Yes there is an effort to make Canadians conform to minority cultures, federally, and relating to forced toleration.

But should there be? Ridiculous isn't it being forced to recognize as normal, minority cultures, including language and religion.

How many RCMP officers wear turbans? A handful. Not all. Canadian culture, the red serge etc is just fine, thanks.

Back to your effort to make Canadians conform to minority cultures.

Forced tolerance is nothing to be proud of.

W...T...F?

You said: "Forcing all RCMP officers to wear turbans is assimilation."

WTF?

And I said: "This would be admitting defeat to a foreign occupation."

You don't seem to grasp the reality this is CANADA.

Forcing a Sikh to wear a Stetson is not assimilation but part of the job description.

[CANADIEN]

You do know the story of Chicken Little, don't you? Because your comment makes no sense in the context of the analogy used.

Real chicken little types run around screaming that the end is nigh. You know: your M.O.?

Is there or isn't there? If there is: where's the evidence?

How many RCMP officers wear turbans? A handful. Not all. Canadian culture, the red serge etc is just fine, thanks.

W...T...F?

Indeed we are under foreign occupation. All those Chinese laundries, Greek restaurants, italian cafés Soon we will be forced to eat jamaican patties while being marched by turban-wearing soldiers to the mosque for prayers (in French). The end is near.

[WIP]

Chicken Little to-day just means a mistaken hysterical belief disaster is imminent.

So seen through the eyes of especially ethnic immigrants this could be inviting some sort of personal disaster if they allowed themselves to become Canadian.

You said: "I see precious little to suggest there's any effort underway to force Canadians to conform to minority cultures."

Yes there is an effort to make Canadians conform to minority cultures, federally, and relating to forced toleration.

But should there be? Ridiculous isn't it being forced to recognize as normal, minority cultures, including language and religion.

I can't help stepping here to note that it seems a little ironic that you are attacking aboriginals and immigrants in the same thread with some vague appeal to Canadian nationalism. If you're going to use the "we were here first argument" to order immigrants to speak English and abandon their cultural quirks to conform to Canadian values, then even those of us who's ancestors left Scotland in the 1770's and landed in Quebec, are also immigrants, since this continent was occupied for thousands of years before we got here!

What exactly does it mean to become Canadian? Do you have to stop speaking your native language at home and cut off all of your family contacts with the old country? And what do we have here to define as Canadian culture? When I was young, growing up in Ontario, it meant holding on to everything that was British! When the Maple Leaf was adopted as the national flag, our local Eaton's store refused to fly it and kept the Red Ensign (with the Union Jack in the top left corner) flying on the flag pole! Back then, being a Canadian meant refusing that godawful concession to the Quebeckers! My, how times have changed! So it seems to me that if there is anything tangible to define Canadian culture, it is a work-in-progress and like it or not, those immigrants you hate so much are going to play a role in molding and shaping Canadian identity in the future!

[CANADIEN]

I can't help stepping here to note that it seems a little ironic that you are attacking aboriginals and immigrants in the same thread with some vague appeal to Canadian nationalism. If you're going to use the "we were here first argument" to order immigrants to speak English and abandon their cultural quirks to conform to Canadian values, then even those of us who's ancestors left Scotland in the 1770's and landed in Quebec, are also immigrants, since this continent was occupied for thousands of years before we got here!

What exactly does it mean to become Canadian? Do you have to stop speaking your native language at home and cut off all of your family contacts with the old country? And what do we have here to define as Canadian culture? When I was young, growing up in Ontario, it meant holding on to everything that was British! When the Maple Leaf was adopted as the national flag, our local Eaton's store refused to fly it and kept the Red Ensign (with the Union Jack in the top left corner) flying on the flag pole! Back then, being a Canadian meant refusing that godawful concession to the Quebeckers! My, how times have changed! So it seems to me that if there is anything tangible to define Canadian culture, it is a work-in-progress and like it or not, those immigrants you hate so much are going to play a role in molding and shaping Canadian identity in the future!

Hear Hear!

[Leafless]

Indeed we are under foreign occupation. All those Chinese laundries, Greek restaurants, italian cafés Soon we will be forced to eat jamaican patties while being marched by turban-wearing soldiers to the mosque for prayers (in French). The end is near.

It seems I have been mistaken about you.

You do have a somewhat functional thought process.

[AngusThermopyle]

It seems I have been mistaken about you.

You do have a somewhat functional thought process.

Just a stab in the dark here but I think CANADIAN was being a tad sarcastic.

[Leafless]

I can't help stepping here to note that it seems a little ironic that you are attacking aboriginals and immigrants in the same thread with some vague appeal to Canadian nationalism.

You almost make it sound illegal to express a desire for unity utilizing Canadian nationalism as a medium?

If you're going to use the "we were here first argument"

I have no intentions of using that argument or have used that argument.

What exactly does it mean to become Canadian?

According to you, one must be an immigrant.

But then again what does it really mean to become a Canadian, American or a citizen of any other country?

It means you automatically become part of that current culture that standardizes and normalizes everyday activities from work to play.

Do you have to stop speaking your native language at home

Certainly, but by not doing so only proves one wishes to remain an immigrant forever.

This is also definitely classless and serves no purpose other than allows ethnic immigrants to retain that thick foreign accent.

And what do we have here to define as Canadian culture?

God, you are condescending and show disrespect towards Canadian citizens.

When I was young, growing up in Ontario, it meant holding on to everything that was British! When the Maple Leaf was adopted as the national flag, our local Eaton's store refused to fly it and kept the Red Ensign (with the Union Jack in the top left corner) flying on the flag pole!

Yes, your statement demonstrates how quickly some of us forget our true heritage.

Back then, being a Canadian meant refusing that godawful concession to the Quebeckers! My, how times have changed! So it seems to me that if there is anything tangible to define Canadian culture, it is a work-in-progress and like it or not, those immigrants you hate so much are going to play a role in molding and shaping Canadian identity in the future!

You have given the definition of a traitor.

How does it feel to be a TRAITOR?

Edited June 24, 2008 by Leafless

[Leafless]

Just a stab in the dark here but I think CANADIAN was being a tad sarcastic.

Ha-ha-ha.

He is just being smart-alecky but acknowledges the basic truth that he is an intolerant believer in a political theory.

[Remiel]

If only we could call Leafless things that are against the forum rules, it would not be libel.

[guyser]

If only we could call Leafless things that are against the forum rules, it would not be libel.

He wouldnt understand anyway.

[Army Guy]

Then maybe someone can tell me why the majority White, English speaking, Christian society is on the hook or is responsible subsidizing all these sub cultures and or allowing them to live in our society without assimilating?

This makes no sense, whereas if you take away the majority White, English speaking, Christian culture, you have NO CANADA, NO COUNTRY, NO GOVERNMENT, No Mr, Harper.

I think this is a fair question, i understand that we as a culture must evolve with time, but where do we draw the line and just stand up and say, look bud's you want to become Canadian you are the one that has to change, not me....are we indanger of totally deluting what it used to mean being Canadian, is that what we are working towards, is that what is meant by evolving...and why don't we follow this way of thinking on everything....such as religion, sports, our laws etc etc....

[Leafless]

I think this is a fair question, i understand that we as a culture must evolve with time, but where do we draw the line and just stand up and say, look bud's you want to become Canadian you are the one that has to change, not me....are we indanger of totally deluting what it used to mean being Canadian, is that what we are working towards, is that what is meant by evolving...and why don't we follow this way of thinking on everything....such as religion, sports, our laws etc etc....

The complexities of a dysfunctional federal government who have created Frankenstein type cultural solitudes and an undemocratic 'Charter of Wrongs' are totally responsible for the cultural crisis we are currently experiencing.

You are in the same sinking boat as I and many Canadians are in Army guy.

If we do go down, we will go down as proud Canadian patriots refusing to join the ranks of Trudeau's un-Canadian upheaval.

[WIP]

You almost make it sound illegal to express a desire for unity utilizing Canadian nationalism as a medium?

I have no intentions of using that argument or have used that argument.

According to you, one must be an immigrant.

But then again what does it really mean to become a Canadian, American or a citizen of any other country?

It means you automatically become part of that current culture that standardizes and normalizes everyday activities from work to play.

Certainly, but by not doing so only proves one wishes to remain an immigrant forever.

This is also definitely classless and serves no purpose other than allows ethnic immigrants to retain that thick foreign accent.

God, you are condescending and show disrespect towards Canadian citizens.

Yes, your statement demonstrates how quickly some of us forget our true heritage.

You have given the definition of a traitor.

How does it feel to be a TRAITOR?

Well, that was a waste of time! It looks like you are not only a fanatic, but judging by this offensive rant, you may also be a dangerous lunatic! I'll stand with the people with the "thick foreign accents" over the likes of you any day!

[guyser]

The complexities of a dysfunctional federal government who have created Frankenstein type cultural solitudes and an undemocratic 'Charter of Wrongs' are totally responsible for the cultural crisis we are currently experiencing.

Would you be so kind to enlighten us exactly what "cultural crisis" we are experiencing?

For that matter two or three examples would do just fine.

[CANADIEN]

It seems I have been mistaken about you.

You do have a somewhat functional thought process.

Indeed. I think you are a joke, and you keep proving me right.

[CANADIEN]

Well, that was a waste of time! It looks like you are not only a fanatic, but judging by this offensive rant, you may also be a dangerous lunatic! I'll stand with the people with the "thick foreign accents" over the likes of you any day!

The only danger coming from is the one associated with laughing to much.

But don't believe that it is about people having too much of an accent to his liking. People have to hate as much as he does, be as homophobic as he is, share not only is religious but his perverted sense of it. He hasn't mentioned it yet, but I would be surprised one bit if he had a problem with people being of a different skin color.

Pathetic and laughable.

[Army Guy]

Would you be so kind to enlighten us exactly what "cultural crisis" we are experiencing?

For that matter two or three examples would do just fine.

Would i call it a crises, probly not, but it is concerning that Canadians really have very little that identifies them as Canadian. And slowly we are lossing those very things that are "Canadian or white christain", I have no problem with anyone wishing to live in Canada , all are welcome, but be prepared to adapt to our culture...as they would expect us to adapt to thier culture.

-The mounty hat, and military helmet thing.

-Prayer in schools ( religion in general)

-Christmas holidays being renamed. ( again a religion thing)

- Americanization of Canadians

- The Queen

Canada in crises

Canadian indentity

identity crises

[g_bambino]

Would i call it a crises, probly not, but it is concerning that Canadians really have very little that identifies them as Canadian. And slowly we are lossing those very things that are "Canadian or white christain", I have no problem with anyone wishing to live in Canada , all are welcome, but be prepared to adapt to our culture...as they would expect us to adapt to thier culture.

-The mounty hat, and military helmet thing.

-Prayer in schools ( religion in general)

-Christmas holidays being renamed. ( again a religion thing)

- Americanization of Canadians

- The Queen

Canada in crises

Canadian indentity

identity crises

I agree that crisis is probably too strong a term for what seems more like a slow bleeding. Though I'm only in my third decade of life, it still seems pretty clear to me that the identity of "English Canada" has been operated on over the same time span, with small cuts here and there, but with the eventual cumulative effect of a full visceration. I'm not sure how intentional this was - perhaps it partly was and partly wasn't. However, it seems to have happened mostly through the combination of a deliberate attempt to quell the beast of Quebec nationalism, along with a policy of multiculturalism that actually encourages new arrivals to retain all their old habits and languages once they get here. The end result is obviously one province with a strong cultural identity and nine others made up of a "mosaic" of cultures bound together through some feeble attempt at "Canadianism." Writing this reminds me of the comment I read once about how Canada Day is a rather pathetic attempt at patriotism; it's a day purely about a flag, and little else; swap all those maple leaf banners draped over shoulders and painted on faces and you could be in any other country. Kind of makes one wonder if that's all that has come to be left of "Canadian identity"; especially when we consider how people - some parliamentarians and, from time to time, ministers amongst them - now seriously advocate that we pledge allegiance to the flag, put the flag on the cover of passports, put the maple leaf at the top of the precedence order, etc., etc. It's bland and devoid of true meaning, as has become so typically Canadian; to avoid the risk of causing anyone offence, we "English Canadians" have had nearly all symbols with any entrenched history and meaning wiped away in favour of a new piece of cloth that is so nearly devoid of roots that anyone can apply their own personal meaning to it, or none at all.

I'm probably coming across as though I hate the flag. I don't. It may not be the best result ever, but it was the best result for the time, and it works well as a symbol of Canada abroad. But, in terms of an internal symbol, because government is too partisan, signs of the Queen are removed yearly, American media floods our televisions and computers, etc., there's nothing else left for "English Canadians" to rally around as a symbol of their Canadian-ness.

Canadians need not be British, nor need we be American; we've always been an interesting combination of the two, and more. Hence, we should stop being embarrassed because Canada is a kingdom that shares its sovereign with the UK (and why is it always the specific fact that she's also monarch of the UK that irks the apologists? She's Queen of Tuvalu, Jamaica, St. Kitts, New Zealand, and others too); stop being embarrassed because Canadian symbols have British origins/roots/elements (they've been Canadianised enough - with maple leaves and beavers and the like - to be distinctly ours); stop being embarrassed because parts of the country were founded as British colonies; stop being embarrassed because the British won the Battle of the Plains of Abraham and France gave up her Canadian territories through the treaty of Paris; and so on. French Canadians don't throw out any of their cultural elements because of the potential to offend; Greek, Ukrainian, Indo-Pakistani, Chinese, Somali, etc., etc.-Canadians don't do so either; in fact, they're all encouraged not to. Why, then, gut the common national - yes, major - culture of its roots and symbols until it is but a shallow and weak notion of something to do kind of with tolerance, peacekeeping, Mounties (without tasers), a flag, and dancing around the May-pole under a rainbow? It can't be because of the need to accommodate immigrants; as someone said here earlier, integration is not the same as assimilation. We don't demand assimilation, and there is always room for integration. If the person doesn't want to integrate, well... they're free not to; but they equally shouldn't expect the common, established culture to clear out just for them. "English Canadians" seem to have lost the distinction between tolerance and acceptance, and have sacrificed much of the once encompassing culture in order to favour the latter as opposed to the former. I think it's only to the country's detriment to continue to do so.

Edited June 25, 2008 by g_bambino