Ethnic hatred blamed in cafe attack Edmonton

[scribblet]

When I read this, at first I thought it couldn't be happening in Canada, Canadians generally don't rampage and attack people , then I read further and realized it was old ethnic feuds alive and well here. What can we do to change attitudes and this type of behaviour?

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2008/05/...648481-sun.html

Ethnic hatred blamed in cafe attack

Furniture, windows smashed, three hospitalized

An attack by a large group of men armed with clubs, knives and rocks left Cuma Yuksel bleeding and the Ankara cafe in shambles yesterday. The men broke through the window of the eatery, at 15960 109 Ave., and began attacking patrons. (Jason Franson, Sun Media)

A mob rampaged through a west-end cafe in a bloody attack yesterday that sent three men to hospital.

After the bloodshed, angry Kurds pointed the finger at their Turkish neighbours.

"This attack is a well-organized hate crime against Kurds by racist people," said Metin Yesilcimer, who rushed to the scene as soon as he heard about the violence.

Two men in their 40s and one in his 50s were taken to hospital with non life-threatening injuries after a group of 20 to 25 armed men stoned Ankara Cafe at 15960 109 Ave., and assaulted eight people with metal batons, knives and stones, said eyewitnesses.

"They are like Nazis. They are Turkish Nazis," said Yesilcimer, who said he was speaking on behalf of the victims.

[Argus]

When I read this, at first I thought it couldn't be happening in Canada, Canadians generally don't rampage and attack people , then I read further and realized it was old ethnic feuds alive and well here. What can we do to change attitudes and this type of behaviour?

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2008/05/...648481-sun.html

Ethnic hatred blamed in cafe attack

Furniture, windows smashed, three hospitalized

Guyser will probably come on soon and tell you about the wonderful ethnic restaurants he's eaten at, and how delighted he is that Canada has such a rainbow of ethnic groups and isn't a boring white place any more.

[AngusThermopyle]

What can we do to change attitudes and this type of behaviour?

Point and snicker. That should do the trick.

[DangerMouse]

Point and snicker. That should do the trick.

Angus will never grow up

[AngusThermopyle]

Angus will never grow up

Unintentional irony alert.

Hmmm, more insignificant squeaking.

[Borg]

Import trouble and it will grow

Should have left them where they were

I am sure the human rights commission and the touchie feelie folks will recommend counselling

What can we do to solve this?

Ship them out of country - asap

Good riddance and certainly no loss

Borg

[JB Globe]

Import trouble and it will grow

Not excusing what happened, because it was wrong and needs to be rectified - but don't you think you're overreacting here?

I mean, when there's a bar brawl involving a bunch of white Canadians - do you immediately recommend they be shipped out?

Or are you applying different standards of decency to different Canadians based on their ethnicity?

Ship them out of country - asap

Please explain how you'd go through the process of legally deporting a Canadian citizen - because I'm not aware that you can do that without violating someone's constitutional rights.

[Borg]

Not excusing what happened, because it was wrong and needs to be rectified - but don't you think you're overreacting here?

I mean, when there's a bar brawl involving a bunch of white Canadians - do you immediately recommend they be shipped out?

Or are you applying different standards of decency to different Canadians based on their ethnicity?

Please explain how you'd go through the process of legally deporting a Canadian citizen - because I'm not aware that you can do that without violating someone's constitutional rights.

A typical smug canadian response

Fact is we are importing trouble and have been doing so for some time

This was not simply a bar brawl - the roots run deeper - and you either are ignoring it, minimizing it, or being simply another smug canadian. It happens all over the major centres.

Probably all three

Even the major media in toronto will do their best to minimize the racial tension by specifically not mentioning the racial backgrounds of the combatants. Avoiding the truth simply makes it worse.

Standards of decency?

Yours or theirs?

They are very different - it is tribe before flag - to ignore this is simply another sign you are a smug canadian.

The decency that you live by is very different from many of those who arrive here - and carry - will carry - their own tribalisms and slights - real or imagined - for generations.

Time for you to get your head out of the sand - you and yours are actually the problem and certainly will never be a solution.

I am certain there will be howls of outrage, but you cannot mix many people from parts of the world into canada and expect them to get along - in fact many of them do not want to get along and will make every effort to not get along - they are indeed quite prepared to do their utmost to tribalize.

As for deportation - we all know canada fails miserably - one of the greatest terrorists in the world comes from the east horn of Africa - his wife live in Montreal and he comes here regularly to ensure she has children.

And we have been attempting to deport a hijacker and bomber from southern Ontario for nearly 20 years - plus we have allowed criminals to jump the que and call themselves refugees - they stay - and we continue to import.

Life in canada is good - travel and you will find that in many parts of the world we are not as favoured a nation as we once were due to our unwillingness to act on these matters - as well as our willingness to sing kumbyah at every chance.

Enjoy your smug life, because someday it may change - and then lets see who comes to the crying table.

What you do not do today will definitely affect your offspring.

Thanks for the chuckle at your response

Borg

Edited May 24, 2008 by Borg

[Leafless]

When I read this, at first I thought it couldn't be happening in Canada, Canadians generally don't rampage and attack people , then I read further and realized it was old ethnic feuds alive and well here. What can we do to change attitudes and this type of behaviour?

The answer of course is to discourage and eliminate ethnicity.

Most Canadians are aware ethnicity is volatile.

But in this glorious country ethnicity is promoted via 'official bilingualism' and 'official multicultural policies.

Both policies have failed relating to eliminating major problems associated with ethnicity and at a huge cost to Canadian tax payers, both monetary and socially.

[guyser]

Hi everyone, wow what a weekend. I went to an ethnic restaurant on the weekend, Italian it was, went by boat too! So much fun.

On Sunday I went to a Persian run ice cream outlet,man do they know how to make ice cream. It was yummy.

Remember when all you could get was a Nutty Buddy , or a cardboard vanilla cone served by the equally white cardboard doofus? Oh man, things were so boring back then.

Isnt it great that this country isn't a boring old white place anymore?

Dancer, did you try out the Egyptian place I told you about ?

Oh, gotta run , got reservations at a Tandoor place down the street.

Ciao !

[M.Dancer]

Dancer, did you try out the Egyptian place I told you about ?

No but we did tree the Presidents Choice Hummous....all the joy of the middle east but without the handwringing guilt and sense of failure....

[Melanie_]

They are very different - it is tribe before flag - to ignore this is simply another sign you are a smug canadian.

The decency that you live by is very different from many of those who arrive here - and carry - will carry - their own tribalisms and slights - real or imagined - for generations.

Time for you to get your head out of the sand - you and yours are actually the problem and certainly will never be a solution.

I am certain there will be howls of outrage, but you cannot mix many people from parts of the world into canada and expect them to get along - in fact many of them do not want to get along and will make every effort to not get along - they are indeed quite prepared to do their utmost to tribalize.

Borg - that is a pretty all encompassing post. Yes, I realize you tried to soften it with the word "many", but that seems like a faint attempt. Could you please clarify for me who you mean by "they" and "them"? Is it anyone who isn't white? Is it any immigrant, regardless of colour? Is it immigrants from a specific place, or of a specific background? Do you recognize that there are countless immigrants who come here and just settle in and have a good life? I'm married to one of them, and my kids (despite their East Indian heritage) haven't been indoctrinated into any tribal blood feuds - but I feel like I have to protect them from people with attitudes like yours. So in that, I'll agree with you, what I do today will affect my offspring, because I have to warn them about people who take a look at them and only see brown skin.

[Argus]

Borg - that is a pretty all encompassing post. Yes, I realize you tried to soften it with the word "many", but that seems like a faint attempt. Could you please clarify for me who you mean by "they" and "them"? Is it anyone who isn't white? Is it any immigrant, regardless of colour? Is it immigrants from a specific place, or of a specific background? Do you recognize that there are countless immigrants who come here and just settle in and have a good life? I'm married to one of them, and my kids (despite their East Indian heritage) haven't been indoctrinated into any tribal blood feuds - but I feel like I have to protect them from people with attitudes like yours. So in that, I'll agree with you, what I do today will affect my offspring, because I have to warn them about people who take a look at them and only see brown skin.

There are always exceptions, but generally speaking, you keep the culture you grew up with. If you grow up in a culture of violent hatreds and bigotry - as most immigrants have done - then most will keep that violent hatred and bigotry with them most of their lives. Skin colour doesn't seem to really matter. We've had culturally based racial/ethnic violence from Serbians, Turks, Armenians, Sikhs, Greeks and a wide variety of Muslims and Africans. And we will always have that as long as we bring over large numbers of foreigners from countries prone to this sort of emotional, nationalistic violence.

[Remiel]

Not like we do not have our own Western European ethnic violence as well. And I do not mean neo-nazis and white supremacists. Have you not heard about the rash of violence against Chinese sport fishermen? What is that? Just business as usual?

[DangerMouse]

Not like we do not have our own Western European ethnic violence as well. And I do not mean neo-nazis and white supremacists. Have you not heard about the rash of violence against Chinese sport fishermen? What is that? Just business as usual?

If they want to start talking about shipping people then Borg and company should be shipped back to Europe...too often lightbulbs like Borg talk as though he was the first here yet his type came in a boat long ago---if you don't like it--go back it's as simple as that...what about the acts of terrorism committed to Canada's aboriginal people? Is that business as usual?

[JB Globe]

Fact is we are importing trouble and have been doing so for some time

And where are these facts?

Because I just read your entire response and there wasn't a single piece of factual evidence present.

It consisted of a rambling narrative about some day in the future where the end will come and Canada will explode or implode on itself because we let too many of "them" in "our" home. We just have to "trust you" that these claims of yours are true.

You're really not helping dispel the observation that White Nationalism is a purely emotional response to an irrational fear of difference.

The main problem with this line of thinking is it prevents any rational discussion of issues such as this gang assault, that obviously involved an ethnic rivalry/hatred.

[JB Globe]

The answer of course is to discourage and eliminate ethnicity.

You'reout of touch with non-Anglo Canadian society if you think that any national policy aimed at eliminating non-Anglo culture will DECREASE instances of communal tension. It would be a disaster - you'd push everyone who isn't Anglo into a corner, and they would feel threatened (and rightly so) for their survival as a community. Now does that sound like a scenario that would be peaceful? Or violent?

But I'm actually interested in seeing how this policy idea of yours actually looks like. Does it look like what France is doing? Because it doesn't look like a success story there.

Most Canadians are aware ethnicity is volatile.

Are Anglo-Canadians immune from this ethnic volatility?

Both policies have failed relating to eliminating major problems associated with ethnicity and at a huge cost to Canadian tax payers, both monetary and socially.

Really? Compared to which nation are we failing so miserably? Which nation that has a diverse population is doing a drastically better job than we are?

There's a hell of a lot we can do better, but you don't through out the baby with the bathwater.

[JB Globe]

If you grow up in a culture of violent hatreds and bigotry - as most immigrants have done - then most will keep that violent hatred and bigotry with them most of their lives.

Do you have any factual evidence to support this claim?

You wouldn't let someone say "all white people are violent racists" without asking them to back it up.

So why do you think you get a free pass?

[Borg]

Borg - that is a pretty all encompassing post. Yes, I realize you tried to soften it with the word "many", but that seems like a faint attempt. Could you please clarify for me who you mean by "they" and "them"? Is it anyone who isn't white? Is it any immigrant, regardless of colour? Is it immigrants from a specific place, or of a specific background? Do you recognize that there are countless immigrants who come here and just settle in and have a good life? I'm married to one of them, and my kids (despite their East Indian heritage) haven't been indoctrinated into any tribal blood feuds - but I feel like I have to protect them from people with attitudes like yours. So in that, I'll agree with you, what I do today will affect my offspring, because I have to warn them about people who take a look at them and only see brown skin.

Attitudes like mine?

I am a cream puff

I simply tell it like I see it - if you believe you have to protect them then you have failed at your job of raising them.

Borg

[Melanie_]

Attitudes like mine?

I am a cream puff

I simply tell it like I see it - if you believe you have to protect them then you have failed at your job of raising them.

Borg

Please, tell us again how smug the rest of us are.

[JB Globe]

I simply tell it like I see it

Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps, the way you're seeing the world is wrong? I've vigorously questioned my own beliefs on a number of topics - have you? Or have you just always assumed you're right because you're you and you're never wrong?

I mean, after all, you can't seem to provide any factual evidence to back up your claims. So how true is something if it can't be proven? How accurately are you seeing the world?

[fellowtraveller]

Borg spewed:

Fact is we are importing trouble and have been doing so for some time

Importing? Trouble? Ethnic?

Note this incident took place in Edmonton, where the largest chunk of random crime and gang violence is by a well known 'ethnic' group- First Nations.

Would you send them back to wherever they came from Borgie?

Did you know that land bridge over the Bering Sea is closed for repairs?

[kuzadd]

"Fact is we are importing trouble and have been doing so for some time"

phony concerns, duly noted and dismissed,

Why? because realistic people do not condemn the group for the acts of the few.

just zealots and racists.

OMG, where have I heard this all before, oh yes, it was the Italians, the Italians as the racists claimed were going to bring all their crime here, etc., etc., and good white largely protestants were going to be overrun by swarthy violent people, and so it goes, and so it goes, and so it goes.

[kuzadd]

Borg spewed:

Importing? Trouble? Ethnic?

Note this incident took place in Edmonton, where the largest chunk of random crime and gang violence is by a well known 'ethnic' group- First Nations.

Would you send them back to wherever they came from Borgie?

Did you know that land bridge over the Bering Sea is closed for repairs?

I wonder what the natives take is on rampant immigration, it was certainly very bad for them.

But then there were just sooo many, and they brought guns and disease.

[JB Globe]

I've always found it cute how xenophobes can go on emotional diatribes for 4000 words yet can't scrounge up a single stat (that hasn't been taken out of context) to prove any of their garbage.

Case in point - this thead.