Canada - You Have a Country You Should be Proud Of!

[jbg]

Last summer, I posted a thread entitled "This is America" (link). I have quoted a few excerpts below, and want to expand on my final thought.

This morning, as I walked into my office building through the clean, warm, dry and comfortable late August air, I noticed the leaves moving in the breeze, and the beautiful sun in the sky. As I was walking, I was reflecting on my night's reading, and thinking how wonderful and special America was. I was saying to myself "this is America".

************

Well, even with these threats, it is still wonderful to breathe the morning air, and bask in the freedom and material prosperity nurtured by that freedom. That is how I feel about my country. I hope it's how Canadians feel about theirs.

I am currently reading David McCollough's 1776, about the founding of my country. It reminds me that people had to fight for their rights, initially, as Englishmen and when that became untenable for total independence.

History and circumstances were kinder to those that followed. Great Britain learned, albeit the hard way, that subjugating a free people is an impossible and unsatisfying task. The birth of Canada, Australia and New Zealand as free countries was quieter and far less traumatic. It also did not generate the impetus for unification and national pride.

I feel, as an American that Canada has more than earned the right to the same pride that Americans feel. You earned it at Vimy Ridge. You earned it by joining WW II immediately, much to the shame of my country for abstaining. You earned it at the Canadian embassy in Iran in 1980. You earned it with your help in Miami in 1992 after Hurricane Andrew and in New Orleans in 2005 after Katrina.

You have a great country. Time for a bit brassier pride!!!

Edited May 1, 2008 by jbg

[charter.rights]

Last summer, I posted a thread entitled "This is America" (link). I have quoted a few excerpts below, and want to expand on my final thought.

I am currently reading David McCollough's 1776, about the founding of my country. It reminds me that people had to fight for their rights, initially, as Englishmen and when that became untenable for total independence.

History and circumstances were kinder to those that followed. Great Britain learned, albeit the hard way, that subjugating a free people is an impossible and unsatisfying task. The birth of Canada, Australia and New Zealand as free countries was quieter and far less traumatic. It also did not generate the impetus for unification and national pride.

I feel, as an American that Canada has more than earned the right to the same pride that Americans feel. You earned it at Vimy Ridge. You earned it by joining WW II immediately, much to the shame of my country for abstaining. You earned it at the Canadian embassy in Iran in 1980. You earned it with your help in Miami in 1992 after Hurricane Andrew and in New Orleans in 2005 after Katrina.

You have a great country. Time for a bit brassier pride!!!

Canada was born under that same ruling Monarchy that you guys fought against. The result wasn't freedom, but more colonial rule. We are still stuck with those institutions and government aristocracies that the US liberated themselves against.

As a country we are plagued with a checkered history that demonstrated that when we did start to take control of our own governance, we committed genocide, infanticide, internment, and other atrocities attributed to uncivilized nations. We even deny those things took place today citing that because it happened in the past it has less significance. The problems is that the thinking that led up to all those atrocities and the denial of rights is still present not only in the government institutions, but in the minds of ordinary Canadians.

Freedom is ethereal. One cannot be free when a government imposes controls on borders, or on liberties or on speech. Yet the Canadian government has a constitution that does not protect rights and freedoms but limits them and controls them. It is not a constitution of the people compiled from the thoughts and dreams of Canadians but one that was imposed on us and countersigned by that same Monarchy that used it laws to limit our freedoms and destroy our wilderness.

This is not a great country. It is one that we must be ever vigilant against falling back into the colonial elitisms that stole land from natives, and employed immigrants at low or no wagers to build our infrastructure. It is one where tyranny lies just below the surface awaiting a single minded Prime Minister who listens to no one and takes his direction from the same elitists he protects. It is one where children living in poverty is less important than an art exhibit at the National Gallery. It is a country where oil and gas are more important than renewable resources. It is a nation that is getting raped by foreign interests because the government wants to be like them.

To your statement of pride I say "shame"! Canada is a myth and its goal is to subjugate its people until there is nothing left to give.

[WIP]

Last summer, I posted a thread entitled "This is America" (link). I have quoted a few excerpts below, and want to expand on my final thought.

I am currently reading David McCollough's 1776, about the founding of my country. It reminds me that people had to fight for their rights, initially, as Englishmen and when that became untenable for total independence.

History and circumstances were kinder to those that followed. Great Britain learned, albeit the hard way, that subjugating a free people is an impossible and unsatisfying task. The birth of Canada, Australia and New Zealand as free countries was quieter and far less traumatic. It also did not generate the impetus for unification and national pride.

I feel, as an American that Canada has more than earned the right to the same pride that Americans feel. You earned it at Vimy Ridge. You earned it by joining WW II immediately, much to the shame of my country for abstaining. You earned it at the Canadian embassy in Iran in 1980. You earned it with your help in Miami in 1992 after Hurricane Andrew and in New Orleans in 2005 after Katrina.

You have a great country. Time for a bit brassier pride!!!

You know jb, I used to feel down about the lack of nationalistic fervour in Canada. Even on "Canada Day" there isn't a whole lot of flag waving outside of special events. So, whenever I was across the border and drove past neigbourhoods where the Stars and Stripes was in front of every third house, I used to envy American patriotism.

But then along came Iraq! And I witnessed how a conniving clique of politicians could use fear and patriotism to make an emotional case for a war that made no logical sense! Now, I feel a little better about our subdued sense of nationalism.

[WIP]

Canada was born under that same ruling Monarchy that you guys fought against. The result wasn't freedom, but more colonial rule. We are still stuck with those institutions and government aristocracies that the US liberated themselves against.

They also took a much more ruthless approach to dealing with your people Charter! Ever hear of the Indian Wars? Many tribes were steamrollered to make room for immigrants and new development. Do you think the American approach to dealing with Aboriginals was better than the Canadian way?

As a country we are plagued with a checkered history that demonstrated that when we did start to take control of our own governance, we committed genocide, infanticide, internment, and other atrocities attributed to uncivilized nations. We even deny those things took place today citing that because it happened in the past it has less significance. The problems is that the thinking that led up to all those atrocities and the denial of rights is still present not only in the government institutions, but in the minds of ordinary Canadians.

Maybe it's the endless whining and demands for more money and more privileges, that make Canadians want to tune out this message! The problem is you want money from the federal treasury, but then demand no conditions on how the money is spent. Why should we trust tribal leaders who don't even believe in democratic principles and want their self-governments totally autonomous, so that their people would be under their thumb and unable to appeal to the federal government for help?

Freedom is ethereal. One cannot be free when a government imposes controls on borders, or on liberties or on speech. Yet the Canadian government has a constitution that does not protect rights and freedoms but limits them and controls them. It is not a constitution of the people compiled from the thoughts and dreams of Canadians but one that was imposed on us and countersigned by that same Monarchy that used it laws to limit our freedoms and destroy our wilderness.

This is not a great country. It is one that we must be ever vigilant against falling back into the colonial elitisms that stole land from natives, and employed immigrants at low or no wagers to build our infrastructure. It is one where tyranny lies just below the surface awaiting a single minded Prime Minister who listens to no one and takes his direction from the same elitists he protects. It is one where children living in poverty is less important than an art exhibit at the National Gallery. It is a country where oil and gas are more important than renewable resources. It is a nation that is getting raped by foreign interests because the government wants to be like them.

To your statement of pride I say "shame"! Canada is a myth and its goal is to subjugate its people until there is nothing left to give.

You've been watching too much Jeremiah Wright lately! You've got everything here but "Goddamn Canada!"

[M.Dancer]

Canada was born under that same ruling Monarchy that you guys fought against.

No. Mad King George had died some years back. Since his time the effects of the age of reason, the rise of the middle class and an expanding enfranchisement meant a completely different form of monarchy.

To your statement of pride I say "shame"! Canada is a myth and its goal is to subjugate its people until there is nothing left to give.

Um yeah..sure...whatever.

Edited May 1, 2008 by M.Dancer

[charter.rights]

No. Mad King George had died some years back. Since his time the effects of the age of reason, the rise of the middle class and an expanding enfranchisement meant a completely different form of monarchy.

Um yeah..sure...whatever.

Hey dude...What do you think the purpose of colonialism was? and still is?

[M.Dancer]

Hey dude...What do you think the purpose of colonialism was? and still is?

To found colonies to relieve the pressure of a fast growing population on the mother country, dude.

How many colonies have we founded recently?

[jbg]

But then along came Iraq! And I witnessed how a conniving clique of politicians could use fear and patriotism to make an emotional case for a war that made no logical sense! Now, I feel a little better about our subdued sense of nationalism.

I happen to support the Iraq war. That being said, Iraq is a decision made by elected leadership on behalf of the people, not the people themselves.

The patriotism is displayed by the people themselves, and is not the result of governmental action. Your sentiments before Iraq were just fine.

[jbg]

No. Mad King George had died some years back. Since his time the effects of the age of reason, the rise of the middle class and an expanding enfranchisement meant a completely different form of monarchy.

According to 1776 King George went made about two decades later, and at that time was still quite sane. Also, the policy of resisting America's demands for greater self-determination was supported by a majority in Parliament.

The September or October 1775 "Speech From the Throne", largely on the subject of the nascent American rebellion (pre-Declaration of Independence) was supported by a majority in Parliament. In fact, when news of that speech reached Boston in December 1775, the forces that led to the July 2, 1776 (not July 4, that date being the mid-point between July 2 and some critical votes on the Declaration which arrived July 6, 1776) voting of the Declaration of Independence were set in motion.

[charter.rights]

To found colonies to relieve the pressure of a fast growing population on the mother country, dude.

How many colonies have we founded recently?

You failed history...didn't you....

The purpose of colonization was to insert people into new resource areas and create greater profits for the King. Thus land was occupied, timber, furs and other resources were harvested and returned to Great Britain all in the name of the King. The only thing that has changed is that the King has been replaced by major corporate interests, who are supported by government.

[M.Dancer]

You failed history...didn't you....

The purpose of colonization was to insert people into new resource areas and create greater profits for the King. Thus land was occupied, timber, furs and other resources were harvested and returned to Great Britain all in the name of the King. The only thing that has changed is that the King has been replaced by major corporate interests, who are supported by government.

Really? That so? So how many new colonies have we started?

[guyser]

You failed history...didn't you....

Uh oh..

[Wilber]

You failed history...didn't you....

The purpose of colonization was to insert people into new resource areas and create greater profits for the King. Thus land was occupied, timber, furs and other resources were harvested and returned to Great Britain all in the name of the King. The only thing that has changed is that the King has been replaced by major corporate interests, who are supported by government.

In the name of the King maybe but in fact it was corporate interests back then with the King often being an investor himself.

No one respects a whiner Charter.

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE=WIP: But then along came Iraq! And I witnessed how a conniving clique of politicians could use fear and patriotism to make an emotional case for a war that made no logical sense! Now, I feel a little better about our subdued sense of nationalism.

I happen to support the Iraq war. That being said, Iraq is a decision made by elected leadership on behalf of the people, not the people themselves.

The patriotism is displayed by the people themselves, and is not the result of governmental action. Your sentiments before Iraq were just fine.

I don't support the Iraq war, so I know what WIP is speaking of. I can't tell you how many times I've been called unpatriotic and a traitor, not to mention being accused of treason. Of course now most Americans no longer support the war, so I'm no longer subjected to such things.

"Patriotism" was played on big time to get support for the war.

[jbg]

I don't support the Iraq war, so I know what WIP is speaking of. I can't tell you how many times I've been called unpatriotic and a traitor, not to mention being accused of treason. Of course now most Americans no longer support the war, so I'm no longer subjected to such things.

"Patriotism" was played on big time to get support for the war.

I do not consider you a traitor nor have I called you one. I think there are many patriotic people who support the war, and who oppose the war. While I support this war, support for the Iraq war is not "where the rubber meets the road" on patriotism.

[WIP]

I don't support the Iraq war, so I know what WIP is speaking of. I can't tell you how many times I've been called unpatriotic and a traitor, not to mention being accused of treason. Of course now most Americans no longer support the war, so I'm no longer subjected to such things.

"Patriotism" was played on big time to get support for the war.

Thanks! You beat me to the punch.

It's not just an American thing; demagogic leaders all over the world have used appeals to patriotism for the purpose of whipping up support for a war effort. It's a flat out emotional appeal, and I guess you already discovered that using logic and reason didn't help much in response to patriotic slogans.

Social scientists say that nationalism is tribalism applied on a larger scale. A sense of nationalistic patriotism is essential to provide disparate groups of people a sense of unity, but now that we're living in an overcrowded, polluted world, where our survival as a species may be at stake, maybe it's time to build some kind of universal patriotism that exists at a higher level than nationalism.

[Sean Hayward]

I absolutely endorse the spirit of the title of this thread. Canada, you have a country you should be proud of.

charter.rights, your ideas are poorly conceived. You obviously hate this country, so just brood by yourself in a dark room somewhere and keep us out of it. Thank you.

Why is it that an American starts a thread about how good Canada is, and then a Canadian tells him how silly he is to say so? This I find extremely annoying: some Canadians seem to be so modest that they not only rarely celebrate their own country, but they also argue with anyone who dares to say that Canada is worth celebrating. This level of modesty is, quite frankly, ridiculous and corrosive to our society.

Edited May 1, 2008 by Sean Hayward

[WIP]

I absolutely endorse the spirit of the title of this thread. Canada, you have a country you should be proud of.

charter.rights, your ideas are poorly conceived. You obviously hate this country, so just brood by yourself in a dark room somewhere and keep us out of it. Thank you.

Why is it that an American starts a thread about how good Canada is, and then a Canadian tells him how silly he is to say so? This I find extremely annoying: some Canadians seem to be so modest that they not only rarely celebrate their own country, but they also argue with anyone who dares to say that Canada is worth celebrating. This level of modesty is, quite frankly, ridiculous and corrosive to our society.

I get your point! But I still like to keep my patriotism a little more subdued than the average American does. Look at how Stephen Harper got us to dig in deeper in Afghanistan by wrapping our NATO involvement with lots of flag-waving!

[AngusThermopyle]

Canada is a great country, one of the best and undoubtedly something to be proud of. Those who dislike or even despise their country, well in all honesty, I feel pity for them. It must be terrible to be so self absorbed in bitterness that you cant even see the good in front of your own eyes.

As many here know I spent 20 years in the Armed Forces, during that time I traveled to so many places that I forget a lot of them now. One thing I consistently found and do remember is just how good it is to live on this continent, both Canada and the U.S. When someone whines about how terrible this country is it just tells me that they have no idea at all of what other countries are like. The result of a spoiled and pampered existence during which one has never experienced true hardship or witnessed true oppression. Thats okay though, one of the great things about this country is that we tolerate the spoiled whiners as well.

Look at how Stephen Harper got us to dig in deeper in Afghanistan by wrapping our NATO involvement with lots of flag-waving!

In my opinion that doesn't have much to do with pride in ones country. I perceive pride in ones country as a seperate entity from pride in ones government.

Edited May 1, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[eyeball]

maybe it's time to build some kind of universal patriotism that exists at a higher level than nationalism.

Jesus tried that already (do unto others yadda yadda) and look what happened to him.

Kumbiya bro...kumbiya.

[guyser]

some Canadians seem to be so modest that they not only rarely celebrate their own country,

It is my opinion that we fly as many if not more flags than our US counterparts do. I think we dont notice them as much, hence when we travel south we do so with eyes open.

Look at the reception that the KIA get on the horrible named Highway of Heroes aka the 401.

[Leafless]

I get your point! But I still like to keep my patriotism a little more subdued than the average American does. Look at how Stephen Harper got us to dig in deeper in Afghanistan by wrapping our NATO involvement with lots of flag-waving!

And just where exactly would a Liberal Canada be without the U.S.?

Answer: Just another THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.

[eyeball]

And just where exactly would a Liberal Canada be without the U.S.?

It would be a Conservative, NDP or Green Canada.

In any case there is no indespensible country.

[guyser]

And just where exactly would a Liberal Canada be without the U.S.?

Answer: Just another THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.

Lonely on a continent that is primarily cold and surrounded by water to the south....and the north...and the east...not sure whats out beside BC.

[eyeball]

...not sure whats out beside BC.

A quaint little drinking village with a fishing problem.