RCMP raids Tory party headquarters

[peijay]

if and I say if ,the tories actually did buy the last election , it explains why they can't gain any ground in the polls. the canadian people really didn't want them there in the first place.

another point is the fact that they are crying about being picked on and singled out for political purposes. isn't that what most criminals say when they are caught. elections canada fund that they didn't follow the rules, whether they agree or not is immaterial. they are guilty in the eyes of elections Canada.

the way this arrogant and bullying party has treated everyone was bound to come back and bite them. looks good on them!!

[sharkman]

Pejay, you can't buy a federal election for 1.something million.

[Fortunata]

As for CBC's scoop, the Tory government is free to launch an inquiry.

Mike Duffy said that CTV broke the story???

[punked]

Pejay, you can't buy a federal election for 1.something million.

The conservative won th election by 6% of the popular vote and 1 million dollars of the 18 million you are allowed to spend is also 6% of the total.

[sharkman]

The conservative won th election by 6% of the popular vote and 1 million dollars of the 18 million you are allowed to spend is also 6% of the total.

Actually 5.5%, but the Liberals, which placed district ads using federal money of around 1.3 million(using a slightly different wording/accounting), lost by 6% of the popular vote. What does that tell you?

[eyeball]

This thread is getting rough. The opposition is gearing up.

There's an election in the air. I can just smell it.

It's going to be All the Bureaucrats in Ottawa and Media in Toronto vs. Stephen Harper and the Conservatives.

Is that real paranoia or am I just imagining things? Isn't there another thread on the go for postings like this somewhere?

[punked]

Actually 5.5%, but the Liberals, which placed district ads using federal money of around 1.3 million(using a slightly different wording/accounting), lost by 6% of the popular vote. What does that tell you?

Actually it is 6.04% when you use the right numbers 1.1 million over budget of the 18.2 million the conservatives spent. Last time I checked the Libs are not the ones in hot water. How about you stop trying to spin it. Conservatives spent 6.04% over the law and won the election by 6.04% they bought the election the numbers work out exactly in fact.

[sharkman]

Actually it is 6.04% when you use the right numbers 1.1 million over budget of the 18.2 million the conservatives spent. Last time I checked the Libs are not the ones in hot water. How about you stop trying to spin it. Conservatives spent 6.04% over the law and won the election by 6.04% they bought the election the numbers work out exactly in fact.

??Why did you not include the numbers you were working with, and then move the goalposts?

I stand by my original statement that you can't buy an election for 1.something million. That the Liberals, who used the same spending methods, are not being called on it, shows a big bias over at EC. The election wasn't bought, canadians got sick of 14 years of Liberal sleaze and lying.

[punked]

??Why did you not include the numbers you were working with, and then move the goalposts?

I stand by my original statement that you can't buy an election for 1.something million. That the Liberals, who used the same spending methods, are not being called on it, shows a big bias over at EC. The election wasn't bought, canadians got sick of 14 years of Liberal sleaze and lying.

Prove the liberals did the same thing. Do you even know what the conservatives did? Canadians did not get sick of sleaze and lying to only vote in more sleazy liars and this is what elections Canada is telling us what we got.

[sharkman]

It's in the Friday news reports that the Liberals used the same spending techniques. National Post for one. Read this thread. It's a fine line drawn by the EC and is a disagreement over accounting. Not sleazy like Liberal insiders passing envelopes of cash to be funneled elsewhere.

[noahbody]

Actually it is 6.04% when you use the right numbers 1.1 million over budget of the 18.2 million the conservatives spent. Last time I checked the Libs are not the ones in hot water. How about you stop trying to spin it. Conservatives spent 6.04% over the law and won the election by 6.04% they bought the election the numbers work out exactly in fact.

Percentage of popular vote doesn't matter in Canada. It's the number of seats you win.

Also, you're giving the Tory's advertising way too much credit. I doubt it influenced many, if any. You saw it, how did you ever resist?

A more interesting topic might be what percentage of government funded programs were in favour of/against the sitting government. Possibly "The Hour" was more than 6% pro-Liberal, give or take 94%.

[Qwerty]

Actually it is 6.04% when you use the right numbers 1.1 million over budget of the 18.2 million the conservatives spent. Last time I checked the Libs are not the ones in hot water. How about you stop trying to spin it. Conservatives spent 6.04% over the law and won the election by 6.04% they bought the election the numbers work out exactly in fact.

The CPC followed the rules as they interpreted them and the way they were interpreted to them. If EC is going to redefine the rules hopefully they are enforced and applied to every political party identically. All parties move money around so it will be interesting to see if the rules are going to be enforced equally to every party.

This issue is before the courts and there hasn't been a decision made as of yet whether or not any rules were indeed broken. It is irresponsible of you to suggest that any party is guilty of anything as this matter is still being looked at by EC.

So to recap, the CPC applied the rules as the CPC understood them to exist and the same way the rules were interpreted to them.

[Qwerty]

Percentage of popular vote doesn't matter in Canada. It's the number of seats you win.

Also, you're giving the Tory's advertising way too much credit. I doubt it influenced many, if any. You saw it, how did you ever resist?

A more interesting topic might be what percentage of government funded programs were in favour of/against the sitting government. Possibly "The Hour" was more than 6% pro-Liberal, give or take 94%.

LIberals aren't interested in that, the truth. You have to remember the in the Liberal pov Canadian values and Liberal values are the same thing and anything that goes against the Liberal Party goes against Canada. This is how these people think so any argument of common sense will have no effect.

To reiterate, lets wait to see if EC finds the CPC in default of anything before passing judgment o.k.?

[Oleg Bach]

LIberals aren't interested in that, the truth. You have to remember the in the Liberal pov Canadian values and Liberal values are the same thing and anything that goes against the Liberal Party goes against Canada. This is how these people think so any argument of common sense will have no effect.

To reiterate, lets wait to see if EC finds the CPC in default of anything before passing judgment o.k.?

These high level raid by the RCMP on the top dogs in Ottawa are strickly used to create the illusion that government and big buisness are accountable. What a joke. I think propoganda would be an appropriate word right about now. They are bickering over a million dollars..as if a lousey million caused the election to slide in favour of the Conservatives...I could see 50 million in advertising swaying the public - but not the pitance they are talking about..This is classic straw manism...mean while Harper and that little surrogate to Richard Cheney and the head of the Mexican creeps are hustling a deal to damage and enslave all of North America...as we speak in New Orleans the heads of the "family" are meeting and mean while us dullards go on about raids on the office of conservatism...as if we are going to get some sort of fleeting second rate justice...it's diversionary. We quake in our boots when we hear the offical and honourable mention of the RCMP - but they can't even tame a bunch of native gangsters hustling a land claim...so what can the RCMP do to the bad boys in Ottawa? NOTHING!

[punked]

"Andrew Kumpf was Retail Media's key executive on the Conservative account. On Dec. 6, 2005, just days after the campaign began, Kumpf sent an e-mail to party officials, wondering if the proposal to have Retail Media place ads on behalf of local candidates would violate the Canada Elections Act"

They can't even claim ignorance here people so stop trying.

"The Conservatives contend that this "in-and-out" scheme is perfectly legal and that other parties do it, too. No we don't, says NDP MP Jean Crowder. Nor us, says the Liberals' Keith Martin, adding that he didn't recall it happening when he was in the Reform Party, either."

Edited April 22, 2008 by punked

[Oleg Bach]

"Andrew Kumpf was Retail Media's key executive on the Conservative account. On Dec. 6, 2005, just days after the campaign began, Kumpf sent an e-mail to party officials, wondering if the proposal to have Retail Media place ads on behalf of local candidates would violate the Canada Elections Act"

They can't even claim ignorance here people so stop trying.

Sure they can claim ignorance...after all just look at the language that you used. "Ignorance" which is translated a willfull choice to ignore reality or law. Ignorance does not mean stupified. Ignorance is a choice. I suppose when you know you have the judicary supporting you in Toronto and Montreal - and they buisness leaders that quietly appoint the judges....a brazen act and the choiced of ignorance is a well calculated risk where no real risk really exists - seeing that the people that installed your government are the ones in control of any persons wanting to pass judgement in an offical manner. Who is going to convict the conservatives? Even if there was a huge scandal and the government as it stands falls....it will not matter in the high scheme of things seeing that certain individuals control the right AND the left...maybe they want the conservatives to fall...seeing Harper has already done the dirty work with Cheney and the boys and the Bush tenure is nearing conclution....so it really does not matter - they are just changeing flags - but it's still the same generals!

[Oleg Bach]

Sure they can claim ignorance...after all just look at the language that you used. "Ignorance" which is translated a willfull choice to ignore reality or law. Ignorance does not mean stupified. Ignorance is a choice. I suppose when you know you have the judicary supporting you in Toronto and Montreal - and they buisness leaders that quietly appoint the judges....a brazen act and the choiced of ignorance is a well calculated risk where no real risk really exists - seeing that the people that installed your government are the ones in control of any persons wanting to pass judgement in an offical manner. Who is going to convict the conservatives? Even if there was a huge scandal and the government as it stands falls....it will not matter in the high scheme of things seeing that certain individuals control the right AND the left...maybe they want the conservatives to fall...seeing Harper has already done the dirty work with Cheney and the boys and the Bush tenure is nearing conclution....so it really does not matter - they are just changeing flags - but it's still the same generals!

Post Script - Malroney walked after taking bags of money and calling it a mistake. I heard the court of appeal mention that a judge "mispoke" - and his ruling stood...well - I would say if someone mis-speaks then surely the brain is connected to the mind and that judge also mis-thought and mis-judged? Having said that - logic does not prevail these days and without logic there is no justice. IGNORE.........ALL IGNORE! All are ignorant and they will plead as such and walk away free to continue being corrupt - see my friends - the trickle down effect of corruption is fooding politics. If you have lawyers and judges for the most part that are corrupt and they are...don't expect anything different from a politician...remember they are lawyers.

[jdobbin]

The conservative won th election by 6% of the popular vote and 1 million dollars of the 18 million you are allowed to spend is also 6% of the total.

We can't get the election back but if there are criminal charges against the Tories and if some go to jail, it would certainly give people an idea of the seriousness of what Elections Canada believes was a violation of the law.

[jdobbin]

Mike Duffy said that CTV broke the story???

I have no idea. The most detailed story on all this is the Hills Times. They said the CBC was there earliest. They say the Liberals arrived with other reporters.

[jdobbin]

Percentage of popular vote doesn't matter in Canada. It's the number of seats you win.

Also, you're giving the Tory's advertising way too much credit. I doubt it influenced many, if any. You saw it, how did you ever resist?

If the amount on advertising is meaningless, why do all parties agree to limits on it? Elections Canada thinks the Tories broke the law. The Tories say Elections Canada is biased but even many Tories themselves were concerned with this in and out of cash. It didn't feel right to many people.

I'm sure if actual arrests are made, there will be a lot more whining and crying about the unfairness of it. I guess the prime minister can sue someone since it seems that is what is best at.

A more interesting topic might be what percentage of government funded programs were in favour of/against the sitting government. Possibly "The Hour" was more than 6% pro-Liberal, give or take 94%.

And you watch it 100% of the time to determine that. More right wing anti-CBC, anti-media, anti-civil servant rants.

[jdobbin]

This issue is before the courts and there hasn't been a decision made as of yet whether or not any rules were indeed broken. It is irresponsible of you to suggest that any party is guilty of anything as this matter is still being looked at by EC.

And if Elections Canada hands this over the RCMP for criminal prosecution, I'm sure we are going to hear from the Tories that Elections Canada is full of Liberals out to get them.

[jdobbin]

To reiterate, lets wait to see if EC finds the CPC in default of anything before passing judgment o.k.?

Is that what the Tories said when the RCMP said they were investigating Goodale in the election? No, they passed judgment although the RCMP said they had no evidence Goodale did anything wrong.

[Oleg Bach]

We can't get the election back but if there are criminal charges against the Tories and if some go to jail, it would certainly give people an idea of the seriousness of what Elections Canada believes was a violation of the law.

Two things that must be done to restore order. Two things at two ends of the scale. First - send a gun totting gangbanger to jail for 20 years just for having a piece. Secondly - any one who directly or indirectly messes with the protocols and rules of Elections Canada should be sent away for 10 years minimum. OH yes - there is a third thing...any judges that does not severly punish the bureacrat and the gangbanger...well - give his Honour 5 years in the federal pen amoung the general population...I would say that would clean things up promptly. The problem is the fact that we have no court system to speak of legal moral or judical...when was the last time you saw a judge actually seperate the good from the bad and deal with it?

[jdobbin]

Experts says the investigation into Tory election spending is unprecedented.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...2/BNStory/Front

“To my knowledge, there has been nothing equivalent to this,” said John Courtney, a political scientist at the University of Saskatchewan's Diefenbaker Canada Centre and an expert on Canada's electoral system.

“There's always little nickel and dime stuff in every election, but this is not nickel and dime ... those are major sums, at least by Canadian standards.”

“There's nothing that I'm aware of of this scale involving a major party,” added Aaron Freeman, co-author of The Laws of Government: The Legal Foundations of Canadian Democracy.

While federal parties and candidates – including Canada's first prime minister Sir John A. Macdonald – have been implicated in large-scale spending scandals, these predate modern election financing laws, Mr. Freeman and Dr. Courtney noted.

As Commissioner of Canada Elections, an independent position appointed by the chief electoral officer, Mr. Corbett is responsible for investigating any alleged violations of the Canada Elections Act and Referendum Act. If he finds evidence of wrongdoing, he may refer the case to the director of public prosecutions to pursue it through the courts.

A review of prosecuted cases since 1992 suggests the vast majority are for minor offences such as the failure to register as a third party, failure to submit documents and expense claims, the removal of a candidate's poster, voting twice or removing a ballot from a polling station.

The most serious offences in recent years involved then-Liberal candidate Wajid Khan, who was charged, along with his former riding president, of exceeding the legal limit of election spending by $31,118. Mr. Khan's car dealership, Dufferin Mazda, was also charged with making unauthorized car payments.

Mr. Khan, who later crossed the floor to become a Conservative MP, pleaded guilty and was handed a $500 fine. The dealership and campaign manager were also fined.

Makes me kind of glad that Khan is no longer a Liberal problem.

[Oleg Bach]

Experts says the investigation into Tory election spending is unprecedented.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...2/BNStory/Front

Makes me kind of glad that Khan is no longer a Liberal problem.

Don't worry - liberals manufacture problems...that's the nature of their buisness...start the fire- scream fire like a hero - then sell bandages outside the burned down theatre. Liberals have exaulted dogs to a higher level than children or male heads of traditional families..I hope they engineer themselves right into hell...can't stand the typical liberal who looks for fault and sells the solution to his fellow parasitic bureacrats who in turn send us the bill for fixing a problem they found....I say forget about the conservative greed..so what else is new? Lets move on.