Obama's spiritual mentor says: God Damn America

[Leafless]

C'mon, Obama's an intelligent academic. Do you really think he believes that aids was spread to rid the world of black people?

The Trinity church Obama is a member of harbours as well as a religious doctrine, a Black political doctrine as well.

Obama's Pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright can be best described as a pro Black cultural activist with Obama being a loyal follower.

Perhaps this is what Obama has in store for America when he speaks of change, is the promotion of a separate White/Black culture, similar to what Canada harbours relating to its separate official English/French languages based on devisive, volatile culture.

[margrace]

Well didn't the English rid North America of a lot of Native Peoples by deliberatly spreading Diptheria? Much as we like to think we are more enlightened our actions speak otherwise.

[Regulus de Leo]

Well didn't the English rid North America of a lot of Native Peoples by deliberatly spreading Diptheria? Much as we like to think we are more enlightened our actions speak otherwise.

Are you taking the position that AIDS was invented by the US government to wipe out black people or not?

[Guest American Woman]

Well didn't the English rid North America of a lot of Native Peoples by deliberatly spreading Diptheria? Much as we like to think we are more enlightened our actions speak otherwise.

I think it was smallpox, and the British army supposidly used the same tactics against the American army. Are you saying you don't think things have changed since the 1700's? Don't you think we're a bit more enlightened than we were back then?

Sure the black population used to be treated terribly. But we've come a long way since then. Would we have initiated Affirmative Action programs if we were trying to commit genocide against blacks?

What about the problem Toronto is having now with gun violence among blacks. Does that mean the Canadian government is secretly handing out guns to blacks in hopes that they do away with each other?

Seems to me if we were trying to get rid of blacks, we wouldn't be opening up our country to more blacks. Seems to me blacks wouldn't want to be living here. Seems to me if I thought my country was trying to commit genocide against my race, I might want to 'get the hell out of Dodge,' so to speak.

Sometimes one has to look at the probability of the claim because anyone could claim anything. I feel for the struggles that blacks have had to make, I recognize the horrors they've had to deal with and realize it hasn't been easy for them; and I support Affirmative Action. I also believe there comes a time when people have to stop blaming others and start taking steps to improve their own lot in life instead of concocting conspiracy theories, putting blame on others. That's a terrible claim to make against the government. Seems to me anyone can claim anything these days and they'll find an audience somewhere.

Edited March 16, 2008 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

I think it was smallpox, and the British army supposidly used the same tactics against the American army. Are you saying you don't think things have changed since the 1700's? Don't you think we're a bit more enlightened than we were back then?

True, but it was funnier when the poster said "Diptheria"

Seems to me if we were trying to get rid of blacks, we wouldn't be opening up our country to more blacks. Seems to me blacks wouldn't want to be living here. Seems to me if I thought my country was trying to commit genocide against my race, I might want to 'get the hell out of Dodge,' so to speak.

This is offensive..."blacks" have been part of "my country" since Jamestown. They want to stay in "Dodge" just like any other native born American (or immigrant), which is how the nation was built. Many "blacks" were brought to "Dodge" (and "North Dodge") against their will.

... I also believe there comes a time when people have to stop blaming others and start taking steps to improve their own lot in life instead of concocting conspiracy theories, putting blame on others.

See above.

Edited March 16, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

This is offensive..."blacks" have been part of "my country" since Jamestown. They want to stay in "Dodge" just like any other native born American (or immigrant), which is how the nation was built. Many "blacks" were brought to "Dodge" (and "North Dodge") against their will.

Yes, apparently they do want to stay here, which would be pretty difficult to understand if their government were in reality trying to commit genocide against them. Which was my point. As for your point, can't quite figure out what it is.

[DogOnPorch]

The whole smallpox/blanket thing is mainly a hoax.

True: Amherst thought about trying it on the natives supporting the French during the French-Indian War (1756-63). Never carried out, though.

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_066.html

False: The other supposed military use of smallpox was the US Army spreading infected blankets during the 1837 outbreak on the American plains.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1338607/posts

There's also a bit of trouble with the whole smallpox viruses being trasported in blankets. The variola virus must remain moist and has only a 7 day survival period (maximum) wihtout a direct source of moisture. Not that blankets smeared with smallpox pus couldn't infect you...just they'd have to be fairly 'fresh' as opposed to being hauled through the wilderness for several weeks to months in order to accomplish the supposed genocide. Hard to say it'd even work...

Smallpox is generally spread by direct face-to-face contact.

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We all know it's brutal up there at the front, especially those of us at the rear.

---Major Frank Burns: M*A*S*H

[Regulus de Leo]

Thanks for that Dog. I always thought such claims were ridiculous.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, apparently they do want to stay here, which would be pretty difficult to understand if their government were in reality trying to commit genocide against them. Which was my point. As for your point, can't quite figure out what it is.

I don't know what your point is with regards to "staying" as a barometer of alleged government "genocide". My point is clear: Shall the Native Americans have "left here" as well? Nobody is going anywhere....they are not leaving just to prove your unrelated point about genocide.

Americans kill far more of each other than the government.

[Guest American Woman]

I don't know what your point is with regards to "staying" as a barometer of alleged government "genocide". My point is clear: Shall the Native Americans have "left here" as well? Nobody is going anywhere....they are not leaving just to prove your unrelated point about genocide.

Americans kill far more of each other than the government.

I'll repeat what I said one more time. If I believed my country was committing genocide against my race, I'd want to get out. But of course no one is going anywhere, because we aren't committing genocide against anyone. If you still don't get my point, I'm afraid there's nothing more I can do to help you.

[Guest American Woman]

The whole smallpox/blanket thing is mainly a hoax.

True: Amherst thought about trying it on the natives supporting the French during the French-Indian War (1756-63). Never carried out, though.

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_066.html

I don't know how you can conclude that it was never carried out. According to your link:

We don't know if Bouquet actually put the plan into effect, or if so with what result. We do know that a supply of smallpox-infected blankets was available, since the disease had broken out at Fort Pitt some weeks previously. We also know that the following spring smallpox was reported to be raging among the Indians in the vicinity.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'll repeat what I said one more time. If I believed my country was committing genocide against my race, I'd want to get out. But of course no one is going anywhere, because we aren't committing genocide against anyone. If you still don't get my point, I'm afraid there's nothing more I can do to help you.

Your help is not needed. Arguably, "gencocide" was committed by the American government, and they still didn't "leave" on their own. The "race" construct has already been discussed at length in other threads. What you would do is a personal choice, and not always applicable to others.

Ironically, "genocidal" America is the top choice for new immigrants, even as we bomb them.

[Carinthia]

Anyhow, back to the thread subject...

Hard to judge a man til you've walked a mile in his shoes. I can relate if Obama has some resentments regarding the history of African Americans. Everybody packs around resentments towards something or other in life. You can live with your spouse for years and harbour horrible resentments, doesn't mean your going to plot her/his demise. True, you may spend a good deal of time fantasizing about it. But there is one body of folks you would have to deal with, the law. Same thing for Obama. He will have congress to deal with if he has any intentions of "changing" things in favour of African Americans which would appear to be threatening to the rest of the population. He is but one African American man, unlike Bush/Cheney who had a host of many other's who were more than willing to back up their wisdom.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Same thing for Obama. He will have congress to deal with if he has any intentions of "changing" things in favour of African Americans which would appear to be threatening to the rest of the population. He is but one African American man, unlike Bush/Cheney who had a host of many other's who were more than willing to back up their wisdom.

But that is the rub....Obama's past associations and future aspirations should not be marginalized with such racist labels. It's like asking what Hillary Clinton will change for "whites"?

[Carinthia]

But that is the rub....Obama's past associations and future aspirations should not be marginalized with such racist labels. It's like asking what Hillary Clinton will change for "whites"?

OK...where is the fear that Hillary might implement things in favour of women? I know that she is fully aware that American women didn't get the vote until after African American men. And as a woman, I also know that she would harbour some resentment regarding the history of gender bias. I would even take a guess that she supported the activities of Gloria Steinham in the 60's. Yes, she had to distance herself from her recently too, but I bet they still chat on the phone. Wonder what they could be plotting up? Hmmmm....

[Regulus de Leo]

Why is Obama afraid of going on Fox News Sunday?

[August1991]

Anyhow, back to the thread subject...

Hard to judge a man til you've walked a mile in his shoes. I can relate if Obama has some resentments regarding the history of African Americans. Everybody packs around resentments towards something or other in life. You can live with your spouse for years and harbour horrible resentments, doesn't mean your going to plot her/his demise. True, you may spend a good deal of time fantasizing about it. But there is one body of folks you would have to deal with, the law. Same thing for Obama. He will have congress to deal with if he has any intentions of "changing" things in favour of African Americans which would appear to be threatening to the rest of the population. He is but one African American man, unlike Bush/Cheney who had a host of many other's who were more than willing to back up their wisdom.

Thatnks for bringing thia back on track.

IMHO, this is just a roadbump on Obama's campaign. It matters because most people know very little about him and so this incident gets exaggerated out of proportion. Obama has issued a statement that explains his own position and distances him from this pastor. Obama can hardly be held accountable for everything this pastor says. Many Canadian politicians are practicing Roman Catholics. Are they held accountable for all the doings of the Catholic church?

For the first time, Obama is taking some hits. That's to be expected in a presidential campaign. It's a long time to November and if Obama or his supporters thought he could get there without scars, he or they were mistaken.

With all that said, I still think Obama is unelectable and this mini-scandal just confirms it in my mind. He has too little experience and he's too radical. He's not sufficiently mainstream.

[Carinthia]

Why is Obama afraid of going on Fox News Sunday?

He was interviewed on Fox on Friday re this Wright nonsense. I doubt he has any fears, just using good judgment.

[Carinthia]

With all that said, I still think Obama is unelectable and this mini-scandal just confirms it in my mind. He has too little experience and he's too radical. He's not sufficiently mainstream.

I agree. I would like to think that if he does not win, it will have nothing to do with race and ignorance.

[Guest American Woman]

Thatnks for bringing thia back on track.

IMHO, this is just a roadbump on Obama's campaign. It matters because most people know very little about him and so this incident gets exaggerated out of proportion. Obama has issued a statement that explains his own position and distances him from this pastor. Obama can hardly be held accountable for everything this pastor says. Many Canadian politicians are practicing Roman Catholics. Are they held accountable for all the doings of the Catholic church?

For the first time, Obama is taking some hits. That's to be expected in a presidential campaign. It's a long time to November and if Obama or his supporters thought he could get there without scars, he or they were mistaken.

With all that said, I still think Obama is unelectable and this mini-scandal just confirms it in my mind. He has too little experience and he's too radical. He's not sufficiently mainstream.

It never got off track. The topic is what Obama's pastor has said, what he believes; along with the fact that he was part of Obama's campaign, by Obama's choice. That's a specific and not comparable to "all the doings of the Catholic church."

It's one thing not to be held accountable for everything the pastor says. It's another to choose him to be part of his campaign team as he did when some of the things he's said are so off the wall. As has already been pointed out, Obama would have to make many appointments as POTUS. Showing poor judgement in that capacity now may not bode well for him.

Edited March 16, 2008 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

....As has already been pointed out, Obama would have to make many appointments as POTUS. Showing poor judgement in that capacity now may not bode well for him.

Don't be so sure about that....radical appointments would be very consistent with his successful campaign for change. Senator Obama used his constituency and associations to rise to the pinnacle of American politics. Not too shabby.

Let's see if there are enough lefties who will put there votes where their mouths are.

[Guest American Woman]

Don't be so sure about that....radical appointments would be very consistent with his successful campaign for change.

Wright has already been dismissed from Obama's campaign. So much for that "successful" "radical appointment," eh?

Edited March 16, 2008 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

Wright has already been dismissed from Obama's campaign. So much for that "successful" "radical appointment," eh?

How do you think he got to be Senator Obama? Where is your guy...Edwards? He's watching it on TV just like the rest of us.

Edited March 16, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

How do you think he got to be Senator Obama? Where is your guy...Edwards? He's watching it on TV just like the rest of us.

I think he got to be senator the same way Edwards did. As for Obama still being in the race while Edwards isn't, what does that have to do with whether or not Obama would show good judgement in making appointments as POTUS?? One can make it all the way to the White House and have very poor judgement. We've seen way too much proof of that.

The fact remains, Obama showed poor judgement in having Wright part of his campaign, and pulling him from his campaign pretty much confirms that. It very well could hurt him. Time will tell.

Edited March 16, 2008 by American Woman

[DogOnPorch]

I don't know how you can conclude that it was never carried out. According to your link:

We don't know if Bouquet actually put the plan into effect, or if so with what result. We do know that a supply of smallpox-infected blankets was available, since the disease had broken out at Fort Pitt some weeks previously. We also know that the following spring smallpox was reported to be raging among the Indians in the vicinity.

Again...with respect: The variola virus has a 7 day maximum period without moisture before it dies. It's far more likely that any spreading of the virus would have been from face to face contact rather than an unreliable method like wet pus on a blanket. Occam's Razor...you're free to choose the more 'dramatic' options re: smallpox. Just respect you're betting against the likely and choosing the unlikely.

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Ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang...

---Witch Doctor Song

Edited March 17, 2008 by DogOnPorch