The waterboarding poll

[White Doors]

I didn't say you broke any law, only that you are talking nonsense which is clearly against Canada's policy in Afghanistan. It's public and everyone knows it lad. Canada does not hand over prisoneers to others who will toruture those prisoners. YOU tell us that you applaud the practice and you are also in a postion of authority. If anyone decides to shut you up because you are getting to be an embarrassment to our armed forces then they will ask the admins on this forum to identify you. That will cause them a lot of unnecessary trouble. Now just stop that kind of behaviour please. I'm a Canadian too and I don't want you telling these Americans that Canada hands over prisoners to be tortured.

I think it's pretty sick that you are being a troll to a serving Canadian soldier.

ignore him Army guy. Hi sick posts are not worth the time.

[M.Dancer]

I didn't say you broke any law, only that you are talking nonsense which is clearly against Canada's policy in Afghanistan. It's public and everyone knows it lad. Canada does not hand over prisoneers(sic) to others who will toruture (sic)those prisoners. YOU tell us that you applaud the practice and you are also in a postion(sic) of authority. If anyone decides to shut you up because you are getting to be an embarrassment to our armed forces then they will ask the admins on this forum to identify you. That will cause them a lot of unnecessary trouble. Now just stop that kind of behaviour please. I'm a Canadian too and I don't want you telling these Americans that Canada hands over prisoners to be tortured.

Macaroni....

Please provide sources as per the rules for your claims

[AngusThermopyle]

Please provide sources as per the rules for your claims

He wont. He's already been asked to substantiate his claim about none sense in Afghanistan and when he realized that he was full of sh*t he just brushed it off.

[UShaditComing]

army guy- I don't need to make up things that you said because I'm relying on what you said. And in this case I'm not playing to others. If you think you are safe in what you have said then run with it anc continue. If you don't understand what you said then that's not my fault. Just be more careful but that's only my advice.

And others please, this is not an opportunity to come to the kid's rescue. I feel sorry for him and I don't want him to screw himself any more. Even though it's hard to feel sympathy for a military mentality, he is Canadian I think. But please don't try to encourage him for your own sport because that 'will' get me mad.

[M.Dancer]

army guy- I don't need to make up things that you said because I'm relying on what you said. And in this case I'm not playing to others. If you think you are safe in what you have said then run with it anc continue. If you don't understand what you said then that's not my fault. Just be more careful but that's only my advice.

And others please, this is not an opportunity to come to the kid's rescue. I feel sorry for him and I don't want him to screw himself any more. Even though it's hard to feel sympathy for a military mentality, he is Canadian I think. But please don't try to encourage him for your own sport because that 'will' get me mad.

You are a fool and are no on my ignore list.

[UShaditComing]

You are a fool and are no on my ignore list.

Promise? If you break your promise you are then going to be a liar as well as a fool!

(you never make that kind of offer to your opposition dancer because it's as good as tying your hands behind your back) (I thought I had made that clear to you people but you must have missed it) (I can't overemphasize the importance of reading what I say more carefully)

[Army Guy]

army guy- I don't need to make up things that you said because I'm relying on what you said. And in this case I'm not playing to others. If you think you are safe in what you have said then run with it anc continue. If you don't understand what you said then that's not my fault. Just be more careful but that's only my advice.

You know the only thing that pisses me off about this whole confrontation thing is, up until now i've enjoyed the same rights as everyone else on this board , i was able to express my opinions and thoughts on all subjects, and in a few seconds you've taken that all away by threatening me with quoting everything "as a military spokesmen" or as a military person with authority...

Kind of ironic i think as a soldier who's made it his lifes work enforcing all of our freedoms and rights here and abroad, only to have them taken away by one Canadian with a hard on for the entire military service...

I have thought about the whole thing, and i'm very comfortable with everything i've posted on this forum, including everything i've quoted as being my personal opinion....

And others please, this is not an opportunity to come to the kid's rescue. I feel sorry for him and I don't want him to screw himself any more. Even though it's hard to feel sympathy for a military mentality, he is Canadian I think. But please don't try to encourage him for your own sport because that 'will' get me mad.

This kid your talking about has served his country for over 25 years, As an Infanteer....I know that does'nt impress you, nor do i care. But i refused to have you or anyone else silence my personal opinion or anything else i might contribute to this board, just to boost your already huge ego...

So to answer your questions yes i'm Canadian but you already knew that or should for someone claiming to know how to spell big words like macaroni, i'm an Infanteer with 1 RCR, with your past military service that info will even give you the base and location in which to start your reporting process....if you want i'll post you a link to the military police IT section, or any other dept you think you need to report me to...I've post to this forum from Afganistan, where all electronic transmission are monitored very closely with no problem, I've checked QR&O regs, and Base SOP's and the IT regulations all of which i'm conforming to.

As for my military mentality, it must piss you off to no end, that it's thousands just like me are providing you the security blanket you sleep under each night. It must really get your blood boiling knowing that Canadian soldiers are involved in combat with our countries enemies. Trying to give that nation a little piece of what you sir take for granted everyday.

So although laughable that you would resort to blackmailing the other members on this board for my silence. If you feel the need to report me let me know and i will provide you with all the info you need to do that...Really i can't make it any easier than that.

[M.Dancer]

You know the only thing that pisses me off about this whole confrontation thing is, up until now i've enjoyed the same rights as everyone else on this board , i was able to express my opinions and thoughts on all subjects, and in a few seconds you've taken that all away by threatening me with quoting everything "as a military spokesmen" or as a military person with authority...

His vieled threats are over the line. What this fellow is trying to do is intimidate you into silence for his foolishness's sake, and I think it wouold take a lot more than that.....

[UShaditComing]

You know the only thing that pisses me off about this whole confrontation thing is, up until now i've enjoyed the same rights as everyone else on this board , i was able to express my opinions and thoughts on all subjects, and in a few seconds you've taken that all away by threatening me with quoting everything "as a military spokesmen" or as a military person with authority...

Kind of ironic i think as a soldier who's made it his lifes work enforcing all of our freedoms and rights here and abroad, only to have them taken away by one Canadian with a hard on for the entire military service...

I have thought about the whole thing, and i'm very comfortable with everything i've posted on this forum, including everything i've quoted as being my personal opinion....

This kid your talking about has served his country for over 25 years, As an Infanteer....I know that does'nt impress you, nor do i care. But i refused to have you or anyone else silence my personal opinion or anything else i might contribute to this board, just to boost your already huge ego...

So to answer your questions yes i'm Canadian but you already knew that or should for someone claiming to know how to spell big words like macaroni, i'm an Infanteer with 1 RCR, with your past military service that info will even give you the base and location in which to start your reporting process....if you want i'll post you a link to the military police IT section, or any other dept you think you need to report me to...I've post to this forum from Afganistan, where all electronic transmission are monitored very closely with no problem, I've checked QR&O regs, and Base SOP's and the IT regulations all of which i'm conforming to.

As for my military mentality, it must piss you off to no end, that it's thousands just like me are providing you the security blanket you sleep under each night. It must really get your blood boiling knowing that Canadian soldiers are involved in combat with our countries enemies. Trying to give that nation a little piece of what you sir take for granted everyday.

So although laughable that you would resort to blackmailing the other members on this board for my silence. If you feel the need to report me let me know and i will provide you with all the info you need to do that...Really i can't make it any easier than that.

Say what you like from now on. It's makes no difference to me.

But don't try to pretend our military is in Afghanistan defending Canada because it is not. It is in Afghanistan at US request and supporting US aggression. Nothing else. I draw the line on that lie even though I feel sorry for you and have backed off kicking your ass around here.

[AngusThermopyle]

Promise? If you break your promise you are then going to be a liar as well as a fool!

Impossible. That would put Dancer squarely in your court. I don't think he's anything like you.

Say what you like from now on. It's makes no difference to me.

But don't try to pretend our military is in Afghanistan defending Canada because it is not. It is in Afghanistan at US request and supporting US aggression. Nothing else. I draw the line on that lie even though I feel sorry for you and have backed off kicking your ass around here.

Once again, nobody around here gives a sh*t where you draw any line. As for kicking ass, you didn't all you did was give a graphic example of an ass.

Edited March 13, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[Army Guy]

But don't try to pretend our military is in Afghanistan defending Canada because it is not.

I've got a question, is not the defence of Canada and it's foreign policy not the same. Our do we as citizens have a chioce in which on we want to stand up for. last time i checked this mission was sanctioned by the majority of Canadians at the start, and the UN.

It is in Afghanistan at US request and supporting US aggression.

Really what about our commitments and treaties we have signed did they not have a role to play in our governments decission at all....And then there is the "well we don't want to play in IRAQ", so yes we will take up this UN sanctioned mission gladly, to stay out of IRAQ.

As for supporting US agression, and here i thought we were over there providing assistance to a elected government...sounds pretty agressive to me....

Nothing else. I draw the line on that lie even though I feel sorry for you and have backed off kicking your ass around here

Just wait a minute, i've got to change my pants....OK i'm back, you really need to stop using that tone i shit myself easily....OK just keep the words small and talk slow maybe i can keep up.

[Army Guy]

double post

Edited March 14, 2008 by Army Guy

[jbg]

Back to the subject. It's great that so many people are soooooo sensitive about simulated drownings. When Al Quaeda's attacks become simulated I'll become much more concerned about waterboarding. As for the rights of innocents, I'm sure that the soldiers and CIA agents involved have better things to be doing than waterboarding innocent peasants.

[MontyBurns]

Back to the subject. It's great that so many people are soooooo sensitive about simulated drownings. When Al Quaeda's attacks become simulated I'll become much more concerned about waterboarding. As for the rights of innocents, I'm sure that the soldiers and CIA agents involved have better things to be doing than waterboarding innocent peasants.

I keep saying that these terrorist types could use a good old fashioned waterboarding.

[guyser]

Back to the subject. It's great that so many people are soooooo sensitive about simulated drownings. When Al Quaeda's attacks become simulated I'll become much more concerned about waterboarding. As for the rights of innocents, I'm sure that the soldiers and CIA agents involved have better things to be doing than waterboarding innocent peasants.

You are a lawyer and you say that? I just dont get it.

By almost all accounts, waterboarding is illegal,and against the Geneva Convention. That is a law that the US signed onto.

You being a lawyer are duty bound to uphold rights. Granted not these rights as I suppose they are not in your area of expertise with respect to law, but still a law.

Frustrated that the rules are different for the others...no argument. But western civilization has deemed that this method is not to be used because " we are above it and signed on that we wouldnt".

Do we want to be just like them , no rights, abuses left right and centre, or do we want to be the on the right side of all this?

[MontyBurns]

By almost all accounts, waterboarding is illegal,and against the Geneva Convention. That is a law that the US signed onto.

You being a lawyer are duty bound to uphold rights. Granted not these rights as I suppose they are not in your area of expertise with respect to law, but still a law.

Frustrated that the rules are different for the others...no argument. But western civilization has deemed that this method is not to be used because " we are above it and signed on that we wouldnt".

Do we want to be just like them , no rights, abuses left right and centre, or do we want to be the on the right side of all this?

These concerns are relatively minor.

[guyser]

These concerns are relatively minor.

To whom?

[jbg]

You are a lawyer and you say that? I just dont get it.

By almost all accounts, waterboarding is illegal,and against the Geneva Convention. That is a law that the US signed onto.

You being a lawyer are duty bound to uphold rights. Granted not these rights as I suppose they are not in your area of expertise with respect to law, but still a law.

Frustrated that the rules are different for the others...no argument. But western civilization has deemed that this method is not to be used because " we are above it and signed on that we wouldnt".

Do we want to be just like them , no rights, abuses left right and centre, or do we want to be the on the right side of all this?

It's not a question of Western civilization being "above" anything. The problem is, to some extent, inadvertantly created by the well-intentioned Geneva Convention and the formation of the UN. These were great at preventing the preceding war, to wit, World War II, a war among traditional nation-states. The problem is that neither the Geneva Convention nor the UN could illegalize hatred among different groups of people, so nowadays massacres are spawned by supposedly nationless "liberation armies" or coalitions such as Al Quaeda. While the Western nation-states are muscle-bound by rules, laws, conventions and treaties these non-governmental forces wreak havoc, unbound by anything.

Is the West to treat the UN and Geneva Conventions as suicide pacts? I don't think so.

[guyser]

It's not a question of Western civilization being "above" anything. The problem is, to some extent, inadvertantly created by the well-intentioned Geneva Convention and the formation of the UN. These were great at preventing the preceding war, to wit, World War II, a war among traditional nation-states. The problem is that neither the Geneva Convention nor the UN could illegalize hatred among different groups of people, so nowadays massacres are spawned by supposedly nationless "liberation armies" or coalitions such as Al Quaeda. While the Western nation-states are muscle-bound by rules, laws, conventions and treaties these non-governmental forces wreak havoc, unbound by anything.

Is the West to treat the UN and Geneva Conventions as suicide pacts? I don't think so.

No they are not to treat them as suicide pacts.

Let me throw this out there.

Unintended consequences.

Yes to some degree the GC binds your hands, or the hands of all signatories.I cannot argue against that.

However, much the same way that the Constitution has handcuffed your own people due to the fact that consequences are not forseen. We know there is great debate on the 2A issue, standing army debate or who is the militia-gov or regular people.

Free speech debates...no one on planet earth wants to allow Fred Phelps to shout Fag at a soldiers funeral , but his right is defended in principle...meaning you (Amer) are all free to say what we want and sadly so can that idiot over there---------->Phelps.

So people who are burying a loved one, have their hands tied since they can not stifle the man, nor can they put a bullet in his head since his right is protected? Unintended consequences.

I can see some problem with this since the Constitution provides limits the power over its people, not the other way around.

Its just that by signing onto something means you will abide by that statute. We all sign onto things that go sour, so we negotiate or amend by appeal...or the contract runs out.

Since no appeal , no attempt to re-write the GC has ocurred....we are all bound by the GC and must follow it. Thus, waterboarding is not acceptable....no matter how appealing it would be to do so.

Unintended but we have no choice.

[Guest American Woman]

Maybe it's been said already, but according to the rules of the U.S. Army, waterboarding is banned.

[jbg]

No they are not to treat them as suicide pacts.

Let me throw this out there.

Unintended consequences.

Yes to some degree the GC binds your hands, or the hands of all signatories.I cannot argue against that.

Remember, these non-governments are not GC signatories.

However, much the same way that the Constitution has handcuffed your own people due to the fact that consequences are not forseen. We know there is great debate on the 2A issue, standing army debate or who is the militia-gov or regular people.

Remember, with an amending formula we can change the Constitution by consensus or agreement. The GC, on the other hand (at least the way you construe it) binds us, but not non-governments or failed states. Doesn't sound too fair.

Free speech debates...no one on planet earth wants to allow Fred Phelps to shout Fag at a soldiers funeral , but his right is defended in principle...meaning you (Amer) are all free to say what we want and sadly so can that idiot over there---------->Phelps.

So people who are burying a loved one, have their hands tied since they can not stifle the man, nor can they put a bullet in his head since his right is protected? Unintended consequences.

I can see some problem with this since the Constitution provides limits the power over its people, not the other way around.

Its just that by signing onto something means you will abide by that statute. We all sign onto things that go sour, so we negotiate or amend by appeal...or the contract runs out.

If Fred Phelps want to appear heartless, so be it. Also, it he is conducting his disrespect on private property the First Amendment doesn't apply.

Since no appeal , no attempt to re-write the GC has ocurred....we are all bound by the GC and must follow it. Thus, waterboarding is not acceptable....no matter how appealing it would be to do so.

Unintended but we have no choice.

See beginning. If non-governments like AQ were bound to GC, 911 would not be allowed. This is not a fair fight, where civilized countries are bound and barbarians not bound.