kuzadd Posted February 13, 2008 Report Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) well we had the cookie eating stunt, now we have a cartoon depicting Jews cooking non-jews. http://www.heebmagazine.com/articles/view/125 there are some comments wrt the cartoon from readers of the magazine, on this page also full cartoon here: http://heebmagazine.com/files/uploaded_pho...rtoon_2_800.jpg so share some thoughts, what do we all think about this cartoon? Lets have a good discussion! I'll start, I am not offended. I like wicked humour, so whatever. I can see it would be offensive to some. I wonder why a stereotype of this type would be chosen for humour? I wonder what the reaction to this humour would be if , the cartoon depicted Arabs cooking westerners? I imagine the reaction would be overblown outrage. With subsequent release of Arab recipes and arab's being cooked by "christians" cartoons. Edited February 13, 2008 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
M.Dancer Posted February 13, 2008 Report Posted February 13, 2008 The cartoon is a parody of something quite ancient (yet dredged up every so often in the arab world. That something is blood libel. The common libel chrge is that Jews use the blood of slaughtered non jewish babies to make passover matzoh. ^ Examples of antisemitic accusations in the modern Muslim world: In 1986, Defense Minister of Syria Mustafa Tlass authored book The Matzah Of Zion. The book renews anti-Jewish ritual murder accusations of 1840 Damascus affair and alleges that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a factual document. (Frankel, Jonathan. The Damascus Affair: "Ritual Murder," Politics, and the Jews in 1840, pp. 418, 421. Cambridge University Press, 1997. The TV series Ash-Shatat ("The Diaspora"), sponsored by the Syrian government, depicts Jews engage in a conspiracy to rule the world, murder Christian children, and use their blood to bake matzah. (U.S. Department of State Country Report on Human Rights Practices 2004 - Syria February 2005, Written statement submitted by the Association for World Education, a non-governmental organization on the Roster Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and All Forms of Discrimination. Question of Violation of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms in Any Part of the World. Promotion and Protection of Human Rights. UN Commission on Human Rights. 60th session. E/CN.4/2004/NGO/5. 10 February 2004) Saudi Government Daily: Jews Use Teenagers' Blood for 'Purim' Pastries (Saudi Government Daily) March 13, 2002 (Translated my MEMRI. Special Dispatch No. 354) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel#_note-15 Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
marcinmoka Posted February 14, 2008 Report Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) so share some thoughts, what do we all think about this cartoon? For one, I highly doubt that Jews will turn this issue into a self-fulfilling prophecy. (i.e. ACTUALLY KILLING gentiles to make Matzo Balls.) But for certain small, but highly radicalized elements in Islam, they will only seek to strengthen the allegations against them. Apparently irony rubs off them. Edited February 14, 2008 by marcinmoka Quote " Influence is far more powerful than control"
kuzadd Posted February 14, 2008 Author Report Posted February 14, 2008 For one, I highly doubt that Jews will turn this issue into a self-fulfilling prophecy. (i.e. ACTUALLY KILLING gentiles to make Matzo Balls.) I don't think they will either. and in all actuality I do not think arabs would either. but from your response I think it is safe to assume, you would be one of those making a big flaming deal of the cartoon if it showed cooking westerners? with the reaction would be overblown outrage. With subsequent release of Arab recipes and arab's being cooked by "christians" cartoons. right! Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
marcinmoka Posted February 14, 2008 Report Posted February 14, 2008 but from your response I think it is safe to assume, you would be one of those making a big flaming deal of the cartoon if it showed cooking westerners? Would it now? Quote " Influence is far more powerful than control"
kuzadd Posted February 15, 2008 Author Report Posted February 15, 2008 Would it now? I would say, yah. I looked at your response, quick to finger point at arabs and rehash the trumped up cartoon issue. Which is really a non-issue except for the fact that some 'westerners' wish to continue beating a dead horse. Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
White Doors Posted February 15, 2008 Report Posted February 15, 2008 I would say, yah.I looked at your response, quick to finger point at arabs and rehash the trumped up cartoon issue. Which is really a non-issue except for the fact that some 'westerners' wish to continue beating a dead horse. non-issue? Violent 'youths' were rioting in denmark again.. but a non-issue. Can you find an equivelant reaction in the western world? nah, didn't think so. Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
marcinmoka Posted February 15, 2008 Report Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) I would say, yah.I looked at your response, quick to finger point at arabs and rehash the trumped up cartoon issue. All while carefully ignoring small, but very vital qualifiers:"for certain small, but highly radicalized elements in Islam" But even then, what the %@ does this have to do with MY REACTION had westerners been depicted in such a manner. I for one, know how to take a joke, and (double whammy) respect the freedom of expression. Your 'logic' or lack thereof never ceases to amaze me. Edited February 15, 2008 by marcinmoka Quote " Influence is far more powerful than control"
eyeball Posted February 15, 2008 Report Posted February 15, 2008 what do we all think about this cartoon? ...snore... Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
kuzadd Posted February 16, 2008 Author Report Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) All while carefully ignoring small, but very vital qualifiers:"for certain small, but highly radicalized elements in Islam"But even then, what the %@ does this have to do with MY REACTION had westerners been depicted in such a manner. I for one, know how to take a joke, and (double whammy) respect the freedom of expression. Your 'logic' or lack thereof never ceases to amaze me. Your reaction was to quickly post a link to a story on western publishing of cartoons, does anyone really care about these cartoons, period?! I mean, honestly, who hasn't seen them? They seem to be of interest to some on the "right" who use them as a "free speech" icon. Hardly. and laughable at that. It seems some wish to use them simply to be as inflammatory as possible. Is that the intent really of "free speech"? To my mind free speech brings about relevant and possibly difficult discussion, with the intent of resolving or bringing to light specific issues. To my mind the right to free speech was really to keep onself in an environment of open and rational discussion, Not to be inflammatory, but to be informative. But that is just my opinion. Edited February 16, 2008 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
DogOnPorch Posted February 16, 2008 Report Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) I can see it would be offensive to some.I wonder why a stereotype of this type would be chosen for humour? I wonder what the reaction to this humour would be if , the cartoon depicted Arabs cooking westerners? If we look, we'll find numerous anti-Western cartoons in the Arab/Muslim world already. Often they look like they are straight out of Nazi Germany in their depictions of Jews. As for the Jewish cartoon...I agree with M. Dancer that it is a parody on the old blood libel right out of the fake Protocalls of the Elders of Zion. What would be the reaction had the cartoon dipicted cooking Arabs? a] Riots b] Lynchings c] Burnings d] Bombings e] Beheadings f] All of the above Meanwhile, how many of the above do we expect from the Jewish cartoon as is? I for one won't be rioting... ...snore... Agree. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pepsi = Pay Each Penny Save Israel ---Iranian Media Edited February 17, 2008 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
HisSelf Posted February 16, 2008 Report Posted February 16, 2008 Heeb is a well established derogatory term for Jews. There is probably a similar site somewhere with the word turban in the title. The site is a crock, like all racist sites. Quote ...
kuzadd Posted February 16, 2008 Author Report Posted February 16, 2008 Heeb is a well established derogatory term for Jews. There is probably a similar site somewhere with the word turban in the title.The site is a crock, like all racist sites. heeb appears to be a published magazine. here's the subscription rates http://www.heebmagazine.com/subscribe mission statement http://www.heebmagazine.com/info etc., Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
kuzadd Posted February 16, 2008 Author Report Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) If we look, we'll find numerous anti-Western cartoons in the Arab/Muslim world already. Often they look like they are straight out of Nazi Germany in their depictions of Jews. As for the Jewish cartoon...I agree with M. Dancer that it is a parody on the old Blood Liable right out of the fake Protocalls of the Elders of Zion. What would be the reaction had the cartoon dipicted cooking Arabs? a] Riots b] Lynchings c] Burnings d] Bombings e] Beheadings f] All of the above Meanwhile, how many of the above do we expect from the Jewish cartoon as is? I for one won't be rioting... Agree. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pepsi = Pay Each Penny Save Israel ---Iranian Media we are on a steretyping mission, now aren;t we? lots of riots, everywhere,,,,, we've been through this already. lynchings? caucasians made that a real 'picnic' bombings, hmmm???? yadda yadda yadda............... scapegoating is all the rage! well we always need an "enemy" to justify our own abuses?! Edited February 16, 2008 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
marcinmoka Posted February 17, 2008 Report Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) does anyone really care about these cartoons, period?! I take it reading is not your forté. Did you even read the reason WHY they republished it? I bet you Mr. Westergaard cares about this. As do journalists around the globe. To my mind free speech brings about relevant and possibly difficult discussion, with the intent of resolving or bringing to light specific issues. Oh, such as using satire to examine the misappropriation of religious tenets for geopolitical gains? Why would anyone want to do that. Edited February 17, 2008 by marcinmoka Quote " Influence is far more powerful than control"
kuzadd Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Posted February 17, 2008 I take it reading is not your forté. Did you even read the reason WHY they republished it? I bet you you Mr. Westergaard cares about this. As do journalists around the globe. Oh, such as using satire to examine the misappropriation of religious tenets for geopolitical gains? Why would anyone want to do that. lol, reading is very much my forte. You should see our personal library! 1000 plus books BTW: I prefer history and politics, media , philosophy etc.,(esoteric) My spouse prefers gardening, green energy, solar power, etc.,(practical) I simply choose to read, less about nonsense then some people suggestion read up on the history of wartime propaganda then you willl get a sense of the purpose of these cartoons, k? and when you have read as much literature as I know I have and I question how much you have read , we can discuss scapegoating, the need for an enemy and how it all works in to propaganda useage. Like I said I simply don't see the cartoons as a 'free speech' issue, but it sure sounds nice that way, eh? well to some anyway? Isn't their another thread in this forum on that topic, that you can discuss the subject to your hearts content? Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
marcinmoka Posted February 17, 2008 Report Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) Who would of thought a very specific question would've resulted in your life story. You should see our personal library! 1000 plus books Wow. Good for you! I guess one can never have too many copies of Dr. Suess or the Bernstein Bears. BTW: I prefer history and politics, media , philosophy etc.,(esoteric) That's fascinating. My spouse prefers gardening, green energy, solar power, etc.,(practical) Please, oh please tell me more! and when you have read as much literature as I know I have and I question how much you have read. You're right. What's the point. Who am I to be arguing with your excellency, the Hon. Kuzadd, B.A, B.Sc, M.A, J.D, Ph.D, Nobel Laureate, Pullitzer Prize Winner, overall Master of the Universe and gatekeeper to all knowledge and the singular truth. Edited February 17, 2008 by marcinmoka Quote " Influence is far more powerful than control"
DogOnPorch Posted February 17, 2008 Report Posted February 17, 2008 we are on a steretyping mission, now aren;t we?lots of riots, everywhere,,,,, we've been through this already. lynchings? caucasians made that a real 'picnic' bombings, hmmm???? yadda yadda yadda............... scapegoating is all the rage! well we always need an "enemy" to justify our own abuses?! Hardly. I base it all on what happened the first time cartoons 'angered' Muslims. -------------------------------------------- Ladies and gents, Laugh-In looks at the news. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
kuzadd Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) Who would of thought a very specific question would've resulted in your life story. Wow. Good for you! I guess one can never have too many copies of Dr. Suess or the Bernstein Bears. That's fascinating. Please, oh please tell me more! You're right. What's the point. Who am I to be arguing with your excellency, the Hon. Kuzadd, B.A, B.Sc, M.A, J.D, Ph.D, Nobel Laureate, Pullitzer Prize Winner, overall Master of the Universe and gatekeeper to all knowledge and the singular truth. as opposed to marcinmoka, the "decider"? The "judger' of other's reading habits, intelligence et al? I take it reading is not your forté. Your 'logic' or lack thereof never ceases to amaze me.. LOL. I have a different opinion then you , live with it. No need to be insulting as you so choose. Ah if only your judgement were remotely correct.......sigh. Your humorous , if nothing else, though I'll give you that. BTW: I am glad you know your place! wrt : the cartoon, they were published in numerous places, they were available on-line ,widely available, so the "right to free speech" arguement is superficial. Edited February 17, 2008 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
Argus Posted February 17, 2008 Report Posted February 17, 2008 All while carefully ignoring small, but very vital qualifiers:"for certain small, but highly radicalized elements in Islam" Yes. Can't be more than a few tens of millions - well, perhaps a few hundreds of millions. But hey, that still leaves the majority of the Muslim world as probably not really believing totally in the famous "blood libel". So we can all be content and happy. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted February 17, 2008 Report Posted February 17, 2008 Meanwhile...after reprinting the Muhammed cartoons, Denmark enjoys its 7th night of immigrant riots. Goodness...don't they know they're just encouraging stereotypes? -------------------------------------- There are only ten basic laws that we need. -- Mike Huckabee Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
marcinmoka Posted February 18, 2008 Report Posted February 18, 2008 LOL.I have a different opinion then you , live with it. No need to be insulting as you so choose. Ah if only your judgement were remotely correct.......sigh. Your humorous , if nothing else, though I'll give you that. BTW: I am glad you know your place! wink.gif Was this directed at me, or did you mis post an I.M convo? Quote " Influence is far more powerful than control"
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