When the Boomers are Dead?

[August1991]

Neil Young has a pessimistic message: Music has lost its power to change the world.

The 62-year-old singer brought his new movie, "CSNY Deja Vu," to the Berlin film festival Friday. The film was shot during the 2006 Freedom of Speech tour by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young.

Young, who directed the movie under the pseudonym Bernard Shakey, wasn't making any big claims about its effects.

"I think that the time when music could change the world is past," he told reporters. "I think it would be very naive to think that in this day and age."

AP

Neil Young is 62 and he'll likely be dead in the next few years or so - a decade at most. Then what? Many Boomers did drugs so they'll die young.

What will the world of 2020 be like?

[Peter F]

AP

Neil Young is 62 and he'll likely be dead in the next few years or so - a decade at most. Then what? Many Boomers did drugs so they'll die young.

What will the world of 2020 be like?

No old people? Lousy music?

[iForgot]

I think it is impossible at this moment to predict the world in 2020. I find it chilling that the Mayan Calender ends in 2012 and that is predicts major changes (thankfully for the better) in the world. Why? Well I think we are at the cross-roads in many ways.

Racial issues, dysgenics, global warming, religious issues, medicine and scientific advancement, technological advancement etc etc

2012 might end up being a major turning point for humanity as the Mayans predicted, whether it be World War 3, a major scientific discovery (cure for Cancer/Aids) or some big technological change. Only time will tell..

[buffycat]

AP

Many Boomers did drugs so they'll die young.

WTF?? Many boomers also work out regularily and are avid about their health. What a totally stupid statement.

WRT the music industry - it is now exactly that - an industry. Producing cookie cutter bands with very little talent. Just little jingles to keep the proles humming away in their servitude. Orwell's description of popular music in his book 1984 was bang on.

That's what happens when the suits take over - you get low quality mass produced crap - all appealling to the dumbed down masses. Bernays would be proud.

[Borg]

The question was:

When the Boomers are Dead?, What then?

The answer is:

The world will carry on and problems will be created and solved by other generations.

Pretty simple really.

Borg

[capricorn]

The question was:

When the Boomers are Dead?, What then?

The answer is:

The world will carry on and problems will be created and solved by other generations.

Pretty simple really.

Borg

As we know, boomers, or in other words the baby boom in Canada, is the direct result of WWII. When boomers came of age to contribute to the country, we experienced an unprecedented economic upswing. Yet today boomers are blamed for everything that is wrong with our society today, i.e. global warming, consumerism, name it.

But as you say, the generation following boomers (I think it's called generation X) will make their own mistakes. Then genX will be blamed by the following generation and so on.

In the meantime, boomers continue to spawn new industries and products. The proof is in the commercials for companies such as Dove that are tapping into this market.

[Drea]

AP

Neil Young is 62 and he'll likely be dead in the next few years or so - a decade at most. Then what? Many Boomers did drugs so they'll die young.

What will the world of 2020 be like?

and we

rode in the backs of pick up trucks!

didn't wear seat belts!

or bicycle helmets!

we drove after drinking!

we smoked!

we had rifles inside the cabs of pick up trucks!

we got the strap in school -- and listened!

cops would drive a troubled teen home and talk to their parents!

... you'd think we'd all be dead by now (I'm a borderline gen-xer, 1964, btw) after all the "freedom" we had.

Young people today think they are going to get cancer by walking through one waft of cig smoke... but they wanna drive Hummers.

Young people today have no cajones! The government makes sure they are safe and secure...

Generations will look back at the boomers and be amazed -- some will be amazed by the amount of freedom we had and wish they had the same freedoms. Some will be amazed that they were even born because their grandparents were so "irresponsible".

[kimmy]

WTF?? Many boomers also work out regularily and are avid about their health. What a totally stupid statement.

WRT the music industry - it is now exactly that - an industry. Producing cookie cutter bands with very little talent. Just little jingles to keep the proles humming away in their servitude. Orwell's description of popular music in his book 1984 was bang on.

That's what happens when the suits take over - you get low quality mass produced crap - all appealling to the dumbed down masses. Bernays would be proud.

Speaking of a totally stupid statement, buffy.

In saying that "the music industry is now exactly that -an industry" you seem to be suggesting that this is a new state of affairs. It isn't. It has been a thoroughly commercial exercise since the 1950s, and probably long before that.

Elvis and the Beatles didn't just emerge from the egg as fully-formed million-selling artists. They were put on vinyl by people who viewed them through the lens of what could become commercially successful. They were put on the radio by people who viewed them through the lens of what could become commercially successful. The same can be said of anybody that the Baby Boomers grew up listening to. They were given the stage by people whose ultimate goal was making cash.

Here is something else to consider: in the 1960s a consumer in a typical sized market might have had your choice of only a handful of radio stations playing music, plus a few television variety shows that would show some musical performances each week. Beyond that, music's ability to reach people was limited to live performance.

Right now, you have a radio station for every genre of music. You can turn on a radio in most large cities and find a huge variety of music on the radio. You can hear System of a Down on commercial radio stations in 2008. In 1968, your only chance to hear something that radical on the radio would be if the Beatles snuck some code-words past the censors. And then you have 24 hour a day music video channels where you can watch artists from every genre of music convey their ideas visually as well as through music. (And if most of those songs and images are easily forgettable, don't be tricked into thinking that it was ever any different: for every Beatles or Neil Young, the boomers had a hundred Monkees and Archies and Frankie Avalons.) You have the internet where any artist has the opportunity to reach an audience through websites or Youtube or Myspace. You have internet "radio stations" that transmit streaming audio of any sort of music no matter how diverse or outside the mainstream. You have the ability to publish music Digitally, bypassing the record industry and record stores altogether.

Montreal's "We Are Wolves" got one of their songs on the latest "Need for Speed" video game soundtrack. I liked the song, so I googled for the band, and within a couple of minutes I was watching cell-phone video of the band's live performances on Youtube, reading about the band on Myspace, and checking out more of their songs o on their website. And, if I'd been inclined, I probably could have bought some of their music from an online store.

In 2008, a band can publish their music and gain an audience and earn a living with their music without ever being accepted by a "major record label." At what point in human history have musicians ever had the kind of opportunity to reach an audience that they do right now?

And to bring it back to August's original question, this proliferation of choices is what has led to the decline of music's influence. Yup. In 1968, if the Beatles wrote something, you could be sure that everybody heard it. In 2008, everybody is listening to something different.

-k

[kimmy]

and we

rode in the backs of pick up trucks!

And you all survived! (except for the ones who didn't.)

didn't wear seat belts!

And you all survived! (except for the ones who didn't.)

or bicycle helmets!

And you all survived! (except for the ones who didn't.)

we drove after drinking!

And you all survived! (except for the ones who didn't.)

we smoked!

And you all survived! (except for the ones who didn't.)

... you'd think we'd all be dead by now (I'm a borderline gen-xer, 1964, btw) after all the "freedom" we had.

But you're all alive! (except for the ones who aren't.)

Young people today think they are going to get cancer by walking through one waft of cig smoke... but they wanna drive Hummers.

Young people today have no cajones! The government makes sure they are safe and secure...

You know who's spearheading all this curtailment of freedom? The babyboomers. Take a look at who our elected officials are.

Who's fighting the tobacco industry? Babyboomers shocked at seeing their lifelong friends die painfully from lung cancer, and scared that the same thing might happen to their children or grandchildren.

What put an end to "free love"? People your age, Drea, having enough "free love" during the 1980s to ensure that AIDS became thoroughly entrenched in North America.

Who wants Hummers? Every time I see an SUV, I see somebody in their 40's or older behind the wheel. Us younger folk? We're going to be driving Civics, Smart-cars, or electric go-cars; as the shocking waste of fuel by your generation is yet another legacy that you've left to us.

If I'd been born 30 years earlier, then I too would be driving around in my 1968 Dodge Charger getting 8 miles per gallon, with a beer in one hand and a smoke in the other, on my way to a booty-call or orgy of some sort. Did that really take "cajones"?

Young people have a hell of a lot of cajones. It takes cajones just to get out of bed and keep going in this trainwreck of a world you people made for us.

Generations will look back at the boomers and be amazed -- some will be amazed by the amount of freedom we had and wish they had the same freedoms. Some will be amazed that they were even born because their grandparents were so "irresponsible".

Well, the ones whose grandparents didn't survive are not here to marvel at their good fortune. But I agree about "irresponsible."

I really do wish I could have had one of those beautiful '68 Chargers, though.

-k

[Drea]

Feeling a tad "touchy" this morning Kimmy?

I have about 40 more years on this lovely planet... hopefully I won't see the implementation of controls such as "verichip" but your generation (including my son) will take to the chip like our parents generation took to TV. You will want it, you will cry for it, you will be controlled by it.

I am soooo glad I am not a young person today. It must be difficult (hence your "touchiness") to realize that by the time you are 43 you will have no freedoms whatsoever. Everything you do will be tracked and you won't even know any better.

Sad really.

[Wilber]

But you're all alive! (except for the ones who aren't.)

And yet you say there are too many of us.

I'm a leading edge boomer. My kids rode around in the back of a Westphalia with no seat belts, were exposed to and did things which are now taboo but even they didn't have the freedom I had. I was an 11 year old with my own rowboat in the Okanagan. One day a few of us decided to swim across Osoyoos Lake. Two rowing, three swimming, no life jackets. We made it and told our parents. I'm sure they cringed inside but they didn't show it. This fear of everything is a continually evolving animal. Much of it is justified but some is just hysteria.

As far as music goes, every generation hates the next generation's music. To a large degree it's intentional. No kid wants his parents to like his music.

[kimmy]

And yet you say there are too many of us.

I don't think I said that.

Although, thinning you folks out a little might reduce traffic congestion and make homes a little more affordable...

I'm a leading edge boomer. My kids rode around in the back of a Westphalia with no seat belts, were exposed to and did things which are now taboo but even they didn't have the freedom I had. I was an 11 year old with my own rowboat in the Okanagan. One day a few of us decided to swim across Osoyoos Lake. Two rowing, three swimming, no life jackets. We made it and told our parents. I'm sure they cringed inside but they didn't show it. This fear of everything is a continually evolving animal. Much of it is justified but some is just hysteria.

When Andrea encourages her son to think about freedom and exercise his freedom, I somehow doubt that she's telling him to drive while drunk, take up smoking, or have indiscriminate, unprotected sex.

I suspect that these are actually pretty shitty examples of the sort of idea she was trying to convey.

As far as music goes, every generation hates the next generation's music. To a large degree it's intentional. No kid wants his parents to like his music.

I don't have any intention of arguing the quality of music. I just wish to point out something called "selective memory", which causes people to think "gee, music (or TV, or movies...) was better back when I was young."

It wasn't. You remember the good stuff, and forgot the stuff that sucked. (which was most of it then, just as it is today.)

There is also the tendency to compare apples to oranges. Old people think back and say "when I was that age, we had The Beatles, and now they have Britney Spears." Screw that. You know what? When you were that age, you had Fabian.

-k

[kimmy]

Feeling a tad "touchy" this morning Kimmy?

I have about 40 more years on this lovely planet... hopefully I won't see the implementation of controls such as "verichip" but your generation (including my son) will take to the chip like our parents generation took to TV. You will want it, you will cry for it, you will be controlled by it.

I am soooo glad I am not a young person today. It must be difficult (hence your "touchiness") to realize that by the time you are 43 you will have no freedoms whatsoever. Everything you do will be tracked and you won't even know any better.

Sad really.

The "no cajones" comment rubbed me the wrong way.

Would you say that your son has "no cajones" because he doesn't drive drunk, or smoke, or drive around with a gun in his car? I don't think the fact that you people did all the stupid stuff you did when you were young proves that you had "cajones". I think it just demonstrates that you were either too dumb to recognized the hazards, or too irresponsible to care.

-k

[Drea]

the point was that your generation depends on the govt to tell you what is good and bad. This assumes that people are too stupid to take care of themselves. Are they?

[kuzadd]

the point was that your generation depends on the govt to tell you what is good and bad. This assumes that people are too stupid to take care of themselves. Are they?

not stupid, coddled comes to mind, or controlled even more so.

tail end boomer speaking here.

loved the freedom as a child.

unstructured days, lots of friends to hang-out with!

No play dates.

Edited February 10, 2008 by kuzadd

[kuzadd]

AP

Neil Young is 62 and he'll likely be dead in the next few years or so - a decade at most. Then what? Many Boomers did drugs so they'll die young.

What will the world of 2020 be like?

Boomers did drugs so they'll die young.

holy stereotyping batman!

Speaking for myself, personally as a boomer.

Ride my bike better then 2000 miles yearly, then daily walks in the winter, pilates or yoga 4-5 days a week.

Cholesterol level to die for! Or as my doc says nearly perfect, excellent blood pressure to boot!

no 'lifestyle' drugs required.

what a crock of bull.

Edited February 11, 2008 by kuzadd

[kimmy]

the point was that your generation depends on the govt to tell you what is good and bad.

That's a pretty weak assumption.

First off, how many of the rules you're complaining about are actually new? Was there no law against driving drunk in your day, Drea? Or was there a law, and people just didn't think it was that big a deal? Illicit drugs were just as illegal in your day. The government was in many ways telling people what not to do back then just as now, and people nowadays obey or ignore laws just as they did back then.

As well, a great deal of these new rules that you're complaining about are a result of knowledge. We now know that smoking is linked to cancer, so we announce that fact on cigarette packages. We now know that second-hand smoke can cause cancer, so smoking indoors is hurting other people. We now know about things like Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and that moms who smoke while pregnant give birth to dumber kids on average. We now know that there are deadly sexually transmitted diseases.

As well, a great deal of these rules are to do with protecting people who really can't make their own decisions: children. Child car seats, bike helmets, smoking indoors, and so on.

And finally, a lot of these rules deal with the fact that the world is a lot more complicated than it was in your day.

This assumes that people are too stupid to take care of themselves. Are they?

Some are, some are not. As you've already explained, the same can be said for your generation.

-k

[kuzadd]

kimmy

.

We now know that smoking is linked to cancer, so we announce that fact on cigarette

packages.

We now know that second-hand smoke can cause cancer, so smoking indoors is hurting other people.

these things were long known. when cigarettes were being marketed as good, cigarette companies already had the research to demonstrate otherwise.

We now know about things like Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and that moms who smoke while pregnant give birth to dumber kids on average.

another long known

We now know that there are deadly sexually transmitted diseases.

another long known

As well, a great deal of these rules are to do with protecting people who really can't make their own decisions: children. Child car seats, bike helmets, smoking indoors, and so on.

they have parents who will make these decisions for them, parents who are responsible for their minors, health and well-being. No government required.

And finally, a lot of these rules deal with the fact that the world is a lot more complicated than it was in your day.

the more things are alleged to change the more they are actually the same.

As long as it is believesd or perceived things are more 'complicated', then we can accept new rules and regulations for these alleged new complications.

[margrace]

Besides being a very nasty man, it is now known that King Henry the 8th had a sexually transmitted disease and one of the reasons he cut Anne Bolyn's head off was because she had a baby described as a monster. He used religion in that day to say she had sexual relations with the devil.

Rather horrifying, thank God for rules today.

[M.Dancer]

Speaking of a totally stupid statement, buffy.

In saying that "the music industry is now exactly that -an industry" you seem to be suggesting that this is a new state of affairs. It isn't. It has been a thoroughly commercial exercise since the 1950s, and probably long before that.

Indeed. Google Tin Pan Alley....

Every generation thinks they are special and unique. It what makes every generation no different than its predecessors......

[kuzadd]

wrt cigarette smoking

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...;pagewanted=all

On July 12, 1957, after organizing a group of scientists to appraise 18 studies on smoking and health, Dr. Burney, himself a smoker, issued a report saying, ''It is clear that there is an increasing and consistent body of evidence that excessive cigarette smoking is one of the causative factors in lung cancer.''

but as early as 1929

Dr. Burney was not the first Surgeon General to discuss the hazards of smoking. Last year, in the journal Public Health Reports, Dr. John Parasandola, the Public Health Service's historian, wrote that in 1929, Surgeon General Hugh Cumming ''warned that smoking could lower the 'physical tone' of the nation.''

1929 that was almost 80 years ago.

therefore we now know, wrt cigarettes, what we knew 80 yrs ago.

when I foolishly in my teen phase experimented with smoking, and yup stores sold ciggies to kids, my parents said, that's bad for your health, after of course getting some swift kicks to the a**. This was more then 30 yrs ago.

It was a phase that didn't last long, typical rebellion crap.

of course now, we can diagnose these rebellious types with a new disorder. ODD.

read up on that one!

[Wilber]

When Andrea encourages her son to think about freedom and exercise his freedom, I somehow doubt that she's telling him to drive while drunk, take up smoking, or have indiscriminate, unprotected sex.

I suspect that these are actually pretty shitty examples of the sort of idea she was trying to convey.

Agreed. I think a lot of the changes are positive however some are overkill bordering on hysteria. Sure lead paint on toys is not a great thing and can't be allowed but most boomers and their parents grew up surrounded by the stuff including spending their babyhood in cribs painted with it and survived.

On the other had I don't envy parents today. The days of unlocked doors and watching your kid dissapear out the door with nothing more than a "be home by dinner time" and not giving it a second thought are just fond memories, plus there are a host of drug and gang related issues and the like that were never even thought of back then.

I don't have any intention of arguing the quality of music. I just wish to point out something called "selective memory", which causes people to think "gee, music (or TV, or movies...) was better back when I was young."

It wasn't. You remember the good stuff, and forgot the stuff that sucked. (which was most of it then, just as it is today.)

Me neither. 80% of popular music sucks regardless of the era. Whenever my kids used to say, isn't that a great tune I'd tell them if you are still playing it at least ten years from now, it's good. That never changes.

[jdobbin]

AP

Neil Young is 62 and he'll likely be dead in the next few years or so - a decade at most. Then what? Many Boomers did drugs so they'll die young.

What will the world of 2020 be like?

Neil Young is not part of the Baby Boom generation. He was born in 1945. The Baby Boom is generally considered to be 1946 to 1964

Neil Young has been claimed by the Silent Generation for many decades (those people born before 1925 and 1945). It is a generation with a very separate dynamic than the Baby Boom generation.

Granted there is probably a lot of crossover but the people we think associated with the 1960s music period like Hendrix, Mitchell and Joplin were all born during World War 2. Their early lives were marked by war and that is why many had a specific reaction to Vietnam.

What will it be like when the Baby Boomers start to die off? Well, since the youngest of them are now 44 years old, I think it will be a long time before we hear the last of them.

[jazzer]

80% of popular music sucks regardless of the era. Whenever my kids used to say, isn't that a great tune I'd tell them if you are still playing it at least ten years from now, it's good. That never changes.

Yep, that's why us boomers listen to "oldies" stations. The music from the 50's and 60's didn't die. I'd be very surprised if rap will travel as far as my music into the future.

Edited February 11, 2008 by jazzer

[Drea]

My son got his first IPod a few weeks back...

so far he has downloaded

Eye of the Tiger

The James Bond theme

Some Led Zepplin

Yellow Submarine

and a few more I can't remember at this time.

but... not one single rap song... so like disco, it is only popular as a fad and will be gone soon. Rock and Roll will live on forever!